Please Help- Confusion re: Winny sides

[GsGrrl]

Hey everyone,

I was on a cylcle of Winny- and got all the sides possible from 20mg/ week (5 mg tab every other day). My voice deepened, I got acne, my clit got bigger, and eventually my hair started to fall out- needless to say as soon as that started to happen I got off the cycle right away (I can deal with all those other things, but losing my hair was the last straw!). BUT I gained a lot of mass and my strength went through the roof!!!
I need to mention though that this cycle was long- probably too long (like 16-20 weeks).
I had used Anavar before this point, with NO results whatsoever- I think that I actually LOST muscle mass (I was dieting down for a show). So this is out of the question.
My understanding is that the reason why anyone develops masculinizing features is because of the buildup of DHT... But from what Ive read, Winny doesnt convert to DHT? Am I missing something here?
So my next question is this: Id like to start a cycle of Deca-Durabolin (or Nandrolone Durabolin cause the half life is shorter)- because this doesnt convert to DHT
Is it plausible to conclude that I shouldnt get these sides again because of the non-conversion to DHT? Or am I wrong because I got these sides off of Winny which isnt supposed to convert at all???
What if I took a DHT blocker like Proscar (finasteride)???

Does anyone know of a drug for women with little sides? I really LOVE my hair and dont want to go bald For all of you that say "Just dont use drugs"- As far as my goals are in the bodybuilding field, its nearly impossible to achieve what I want without drugs (but I always use the smallest amount possible)

Thanks in advance

[polish_P]

try running much shorter but slightly higher dosed cycles. If you were going 16 weeks on and 16 weeks off try going 4-6 weeks on and 4 weeks off. One of the reasons you started getting all of these sides is because your body had a heightened androgen level for such a long period of time. Try out a shorter cycle of 4 weeks at 5 mg per day. Then take 4 weeks off. When discontinuing that cycle run clen at 60 mcg per day for 2 weeks to block the cortisol receptors. This will help you keep your gains post cycle. Also if money is not much of a concern you could use growth hormone and IGF-1 during the four weeks off to further your gains. So basically your body is in a constant state of growth, but your not always using steriods to produce muscle gains. This would give you better gains and less sides than these long 16-20 week cycles. Good Luck

[GsGrrl]

Thanks- I wondered if the length of the cycle had something to do with it, and that makes perfect sense

[BADKITTY]

it is the length; i would take polish's advice and definitely shorten up to 8 or maybe even 6 weeks.. if you still get the sides drop down to 4 wks on. i absolutely despise winstrol; the acne and joint pain make the gains not worth it IMO. i think you'd fare much better on a low dose anavar stacked with VERY low dose deca cycle. but then again that's just my opinion... best of luck to you!
~MINX

[polish_P]

just curious MNX, but how quickly did you start seeing bad sides from winstrol and how much were you taking

[supergirl]

Originally Posted by GsGrrl

My understanding is that the reason why anyone develops masculinizing features is because of the buildup of DHT... But from what Ive read, Winny doesnt convert to DHT? Am I missing something here?

ya sorta got it... Virilization is caused by androgens. As per a buildup of DHT, what actually happens is that DHT is the strongest version of test and more androgenic activity tends to happen in DHT sensitive areas where there is a large concentration of 5alpha-reductase ie: skin, scalp, liver, central nervous system etc... those androgen receptors are more sensitive to DHT and will convert easily... this is why people blame DHT conversion for side effects...

You are correct that winny does not convert to DHT. Winny is not affected by the 5alpha-reductase, HOWEVER winny is a DHT derivative. Basically winny is a male sex hormone... granted it is much much more anabolic then androgenic, it is still a male hormone and this alone can cause sides. It will cause even more sides the longer the run...

get it now?

So my next question is this: Id like to start a cycle of Deca-Durabolin (or Nandrolone Durabolin cause the half life is shorter)- because this doesnt convert to DHT
Is it plausible to conclude that I shouldnt get these sides again because of the non-conversion to DHT? Or am I wrong because I got these sides off of Winny which isnt supposed to convert at all???

OK.. Durabolin (nandrolone phenylpropionate) is the fast acting deca... Deca-Durablolin is Deca (nandrolone decanoate)... the difference is the esters.. you got them confused...
Durablin or nand phenylprop is only active for a few days, so if sides develop, it is out of the system quickly enough to nip them... this is the one i think you are referring to.
Deca does not convert to DHT because it actually breaks down to a weaker metabolite... Deca is pretty anabolic... However again, it is a male hormone and the sides from winny and possible sides from deca are caused by simply that and the longer you run it the worse your sides can be...
Another thing to note with deca is that it tends to raise progestin, so you may experience menstrual problems and changes in your fat distribution.
[/QUOTE]

What if I took a DHT blocker like Proscar (finasteride)???

NO.. do not take it... you are not using testosterone.. you do not need this when using winny or deca. Your problem with the sides are from duration or dosages...
proscar can also have negative effects on eggs and any possible fetus...

Pre-contest to dry you out is really the only place proscar has for a female and even then, imo there are better options...

Does anyone know of a drug for women with little sides? I really LOVE my hair and dont want to go bald For all of you that say "Just dont use drugs"- As far as my goals are in the bodybuilding field, its nearly impossible to achieve what I want without drugs (but I always use the smallest amount possible)

Thanks in advance

nand phen or anavar are the most anabolic with the least amount of sides... again, it is dosages and durations you need to focus on...

Good luck and i hope you have a better understanding now...

luv super

[saphire]

Super....I soooo appreciate the breakdown you just gave on this issue. I have been wondering some of these same questions..Excellent thread! Saphire

[thejpman]

Hey supergirl, what will be a smart dose for an NPP only cycle? (nand phen)
and same thing if stacked it with var at 5 to 10 mg daily

and yes for sure it's for a lady