First Cycle

[Iron Maiden]

Greetings folks,

Am considering clen and primo or winstrol for a first time cycle. Guess I'm a bit old to start down this road, but it's been a tremendously enjoyable trip thus far. 45 years old, no major health problems other than the usual at my age, failing eyesight, joint pain, that kind of thing. If any of you folks have any suggestions or insight on what to expect this go round, whether or not this is even a good combo to consider, what sort of gains I might possibly garner from this, it'd be much appreciated. Have enjoyed all the threads to date, look forward to learning more and getting to know everyone.

[BiggieSwolls]

Before any of the ladies get around to answering your questions, I mine as well tell you taht you'll get much better responses by posting your stats and training history.

Welcome to the board btw.

[Iron Maiden]

Hi! Thanks for the reply. Not sure what 'stats' ya'll need, (please forgive my ignorance), so with a guess,here goes. Been lifting on and off for three years, had a friend take an interest these last 4 months and is teaching me how to train. I'm 5'6", started out at 29% bodyfat 12 weeks ago, weighed 175. At the end of the 12 weeks, weighed 174, bodyfat at 21%. Would like to get bodyfat down to 12% (prefer 9 or 10 but I don't see that happenin' this soon) this next 12 weeks, see if I can match my initial lean muscle gains. Very much appreciate your help, and thanks for the welcome

[redsquirrel]

Not to burst your bubble, but you will not go from 21% BF to 12% in 12 weeks. Realistically, you can MAYBE expect to lose 1/2% per week.
Second question is did the same person do your bodyfat using the same method? If not, your results or calculation could be seriously off.

On to my third question- What exactly are you trying to accomplish by doing this cycle? Most BF losses are acquired through DIET, DIET, DIET. You new training regime is helping, but that is not going to make the pounds drop off. Also, the use of AAS does NOT make you lose BF. In fact, during a bulking cycle, you may gain BF. The whole secret to this game is gain, cut, gain, cut, etc. Most of it is done through diet. 85% of how we look is diet. AAS just helps you achieve muscle maturity at a quicker pace. What is your diet like? The use of the AAS you mentioned will not get you to 12%. In fact, no AAS will without the proper diet. My advice would be to post your current diet, and have us take a look at it.. YOu may be able to avoid the use of AAS. Last question- when you had your BF done, did they tell you your lean body mass?

[phoenixphyre]

redsquirrel is totally right...I would avoid any AAS until you have done all that you can on your own as anabolics most certainly won't be your magic bullet...
...if your diet is off the hook, you can end up with more bodyfat than you started with and a higher blood pressure rate to boot..

I quote redsquirrel: "DIET, DIET, DIET"

[supergirl]

damn RS.. you are on a roll!!!

also, on a side note... Iron maiden...
1) welcome to the board!!

2) DIET DIET DIET .. the girls are right on with their advice and concerns!!

3) start researching hgh.. that would prove to be very beneficial for you at your age!! You can even have your doctor prescribe it for you. My mother is 57 and recently started her gh therapy.. joints are better, she is sleeping through the night again, acclerated healing and recovery, tighter skin and bodyfat loss... just a thought and something to look into...

luv super

[Fyre]

Red Squirrel hit it right on the head with everything she said!
I couldn't have said it better myself.

[redsquirrel]

THanks ladies!!! IMO, it's best to make sure you've exhausted every option before jumping on AAS.

[Iron Maiden]

Hi folks! Whew.....lol. Thanks for all the input! Here's the answers to all those questions, hope they're what you're looking for. My diet currently consists of 16 0z lean protein (lean sirloin, lean top round, chicken breast, tuna in water ), 75gms complex carbs and 1 lb. of greens spread throughout 4 meals, two protein shakes between meals(one at a time....lol), plus a gallon of water a day. I can post exactly what I'm eating if it'd help, but I don't want to overdo my welcome! As for bodyfat, yes, the one who did my bodyfat does it every other month, 9 point calculation with skin calipers. She's done IAFBB pros BF in the past, so I never thought to question how she did it. It's consistent though, every time. Honestly, you're not 'bursting my bubble, redquirrel. There's not one to burst <smile>. I very much appreciate the info! The 12% is simply a goal.......perhaps not attainable this soon, but one I'd like to reach nonetheless. Lost 8% last time and didn't hit the cardio as hard as I should have. Didn't think reaching 12% would be that unattainable with a little more discipline on my part. Perhaps I was wrong.... sure wouldn't be the first time, definitely won't be the last <rueful grin>. Lean body mass is 140, B/P is 120/70, resting heart rate 54. I 've always had a fair amount of what I've heard termed 'natural muscle' due to
whatever reason, always been athletic and held heavy lifting jobs. Redsquirrel said" AAS just helps you achieve muscle maturity at a quicker pace". Well, that's pretty much why I'm considering doing this cycle. In doing the math for these last 12 weeks, I gained 10 pounds of lean muscle (yeah i know, i know, wtf? but that's what the numbers said , checked and rechecked by three different ppl cuz they thought I'd erred ....for that matter so did I! LOL.) Maybe I'm way off in my expectations........that's why I came here, to ask questions of those of you with experience in AAS. Thanks for the tip on HGH, supergirl, I'll certainly do some research, and thanks for the welcome! I do very much appreciate everyone's time and patience in answering my posts!

[Iron Maiden]

My apologies to the list for evidently committing quite a faux paux with my posts. Certainly not the way to endear one's self on a new board and I am quite red faced for coming across as I did. If my words or attitude offended anyone, please accept my heartfelf apology and regret.....it was absolutely not my intent. Best of luck with your bodybuilding endeavors...

Humbly yours,
Iron Maiden

[valerie]

Hi Iron Maiden- I also am 45 and have been lifting for over 5 yrs and have been competing in bb for 4 yrs. Will tell you what worked for me was getting on a good, clean diet. Get enough protein, carbs and essential fatty acids from flaxseed oil or fish oil. Lift heavy as you safely can, allow time for recovery and eat clean and you can meet your goals.

By doing this first you can achieve more than you know! I sure have and w/o the use of aas.-valerie

[Iron Maiden]

Hi Valerie,

Thanks so much for the input! If I may ask, how much flaxseed or fish oil do you recommend? What have been your experiences in the BB arena at this age?

Respectfully,
Iron Maiden

[valerie]

For the flaxseed oil ( high lignan type) I would try to take at least one tbsp per day. For fish oil its nice to get one that is high in epa and dha I would shoot for 2000mg per day of both combined. The epa and dha are what you want. With the flax the body can convert the essential fatty acids into epa and dha. Just more direct with the fish. High lignan flax oil helps with high estrogen. Flaxseed oil is easier to find. Start with that and learn more about the effa's. Barleans is the brand I would recc.

I have competed quite successfully. Won several masters and overalls. Last competed last spring. Lots of fun and hard work. We older gals can really kick ass!!!!!!!!!

Started comp at age 40. Never too late. The person who got me into it was a seventy yr old lady, Kelly Nelson, she is now 75 and comp last month at the Emerald Cup, she had competed there at the first Emerald Cup when she was 55.


For the fish oil I use a liquid that is lemon flavored made by Carlsons. High epa and dha amounts.

I am a retailer so do know what is good and what is bs. For the fish caps you have to check around for dha epa amounts. Also the caps may cause fish burps, the liquid will not. Carlsons is a wonderful brand.

I hope this helps. I too have been tempted to use aas, be lying otherwise and prolly still tempted. No great moral issue here. Just honestly what is the point? Good diet and heavy lifting ( safely always) and rest have put alot of muscle on this old bod!!!! Plus this is a big plus I'm too damn cheap!

You have to have everything in order any how to make progress with the aas, so why not try that route first?

Well I need to go, hope this gets you goin-valerie

[dannypaul103]

welcome Iron Maiden
ltta good info here. Im new here too. Just wanted answers to my AS questions. Like you Im just wanting to fullfill my need for info. Iam not necessarily going to start any AAS any time soon but Im the type that wants all the info nonetheless. I also have a friend ( who doesnt have I-net) who is deadset on starting AAs. So since I cant talk her out of it- not that I feel the need to- Iam trying to hookup on as much info as I can so that she at least does it the right and safe way.
Good luck on your endeavor, and way to go ! I think it's awesome when people your age dnt give up. I hope I never do. I believe the more you W/O the less older you become. wishing you the best of luck girl!

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks for such wonderful info, valerie.........inspiration? You bet! Did some research on Kelly Nelson after your post, and wow! Our gym's buzzing about her now...printed out some pics I found on the net and took them with to show other folks at the gym what she's done. Can't tell you how motivating all your information has been. Checking into the flaxseed and fish oil for more info...certainly looks interesting!

Dannypaul, thanks for the welcome! Good to see people who do some investigating before just jumping in, there's alot to think about. Happy researching, and thanks again for the well wishes!

[valerie]

Glad to be of help to you. The effas ( essential fatty acids) are so very important. They really don't get much attention, but that is starting to change. No shortage of info on them. Good luck to you and remember to pass on this info on nutriton and lifting to your friends. We women need to see and hear about this and it helps if we who are doing the talking look like we follow our own advice!!!!!!-valerie