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  1. #1
    Softy Tombraider's Avatar
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    Training Obliques VS it affecting your proportions
    So I got asked this question recently - How do we get visible obliques while still maintaining an X frame? I realized a while ago already that people (even experienced gymers) didnt under stand that overtrained obliques would create bulk in the waistline. Something only bodybuilders really fuss about, which is why i wanted to share this knowledge...

    I believe any weighted core training is risky- you need full range of motion in your core and this decreases agility.

    With really defined obliques this takes the shine from your rectus abdominis muscles, but ALSO because of the width of the obliques, it belittles the look of the lats, deltoids and quadriceps. ABSOLUTLEY KILLING THE X FRAME WITH ONE MUSCLE.

    I never isolate my obliques! Can be worked secondary while doing other ab exercises.Overtraining obliques increases waistline. STILL my obliques come out once ive dieted

    "...much of human agility is predicated upon full mobility in the torso. Overdeveloped obliques may hinder trunk mobility and increase the risk of strains and tears in those muscles"

    There is no doubt that oblique training widens the waist, so how do we aavoid this? Heres some advice...

    Most desired look=small obliques on narrow waist with very defined lower abs close together with big shoulders&lats. I think if you need obliques train lower abs- they work with them. Train with a belt on and dont forget the vaccum technique!!
    If you want work obliques use bodyweight only. Increase size of lats&delts to make waist look smaller 1-2cm and diet down.

    Cheerleader kicks also help with lower abs and obliques you guys should try it.

  2. #2
    Female Moderator Mrs P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombraider View Post
    I posted a thread in the training forum, but wanted to put the link here incase the other women didnt see!! As its important, especially for women, to have a small waist to create that hour glass look. Click on the link below, just some info on obliques and some of my own advice on keeping that waist tiny

    http://www.steroidology.com/forum/tr...oportions.html
    Thanks for posting this

    I also believe having a small waist has a lot to do with genetics, of course u can shed the fat around your waist & tone, & shrink it's size, but it's mainly genetics.

    I myself love to do isometric resistance, I think increasing density of the abs muscles & not size is key. I don't do crunches, I mainly do planks, trunk rotations, & I use my exercise ball to do planks, side planks, etc.

  3. #3
    Amateur Bodybuilder Detour5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs P View Post
    Thanks for posting this

    I also believe having a small waist has a lot to do with genetics, of course u can shed the fat around your waist & tone, & shrink it's size, but it's mainly genetics.

    I myself love to do isometric resistance, I think increasing density of the abs muscles & not size is key. I don't do crunches, I mainly do planks, trunk rotations, & I use my exercise ball to do planks, side planks, etc.
    Totally agree, a small waist is largely genetics. You can make it appear to be smaller by training upper lats and shoulders to grow some giving the 'appearance' of a small waist. Sweeping quads helps too, but I don't directly train my abs much or isolate them unless they specifically need to get stronger for functional reasons. My obliques stand out which I believe to be a combo of genes, other activities and diet. I know a lot of girls who don't train abs, they just come in through diet. When getting comp ready I'd have one or two days a week where I'd throw in some sprints and I'd feel it in my abs all over

  4. #4
    Amateur Bodybuilder slair's Avatar
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    slair
    this is also an issue for guys as well i think, not just women. Overdeveloped obliques can make the torso appear larger and less aesthetic. I think the best look is when obliques are no larger than hips for men. Bulging obliques just make a person look like they're carrying fat even if its all muscle. For the most part i think its genetic as well though. some people just tend to carry more fat or muscle on their obliques.

    I do think one misconception alot of people have is the idea of spot reduction. I see alot of people do heavy sidebends in an effort to burn the fat off their sides. If you want a smaller waist, do cardio, work the diet, and keep oblique work high rep and low volume if you have to do it.

  5. #5
    Ology Apprentice IronReps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slair View Post
    this is also an issue for guys as well i think, not just women. Overdeveloped obliques can make the torso appear larger and less aesthetic. I think the best look is when obliques are no larger than hips for men. Bulging obliques just make a person look like they're carrying fat even if its all muscle. For the most part i think its genetic as well though. some people just tend to carry more fat or muscle on their obliques.

    I do think one misconception alot of people have is the idea of spot reduction. I see alot of people do heavy sidebends in an effort to burn the fat off their sides. If you want a smaller waist, do cardio, work the diet, and keep oblique work high rep and low volume if you have to do it.
    Agreed. Using weight for your obliques will only bulk them up. It should be all body weight exercises imo. Using weight on abs is cool though, tends to make them pop more.

  6. #6
    Softy Tombraider's Avatar
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    Yeah the waist, like the calves, definitely genetics! I know alot of people who dont train abs or just do them once a week. Guess it all depends on you Also as a PT ive noticed most people dont know what exercises are targeting what part (abdomen or obliques). I have a small waist but my lower abs are a problem! Can never get that V look to pop so ive started doing some weighted abs. But like the saying goes "abs are made in the kitchen"

  7. #7
    Amateur Bodybuilder Detour5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombraider View Post
    Yeah the waist, like the calves, definitely genetics! I know alot of people who dont train abs or just do them once a week. Guess it all depends on you Also as a PT ive noticed most people dont know what exercises are targeting what part (abdomen or obliques). I have a small waist but my lower abs are a problem! Can never get that V look to pop so ive started doing some weighted abs. But like the saying goes "abs are made in the kitchen"
    That "V" look is also genetics. You can't bring out what you haven't got. Abs is diet, if you want thick ab muscles then weighted exercises will do it. Personally I don't add weights to my ab work, I'd like to keep it as small as humanly possible for me. But if you don't mind a thicker mid section go for it. All movements tie in all parts of the abs in ab work, it depends on your mind muscle connection and form. Good luck

  8. #8
    Softy Tombraider's Avatar
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    Yeah thats also true hey i have a friend who has the v and she like NEVER trains. But I am a firm believer in genetics can be over come and im seeing some improvement in my lower abs since the weighted training plus my Anavar (var) cycle. Thanks for the words of wisdom Detour5, maybe ill have a belly like yours soon fingerscrossed LOL

  9. #9
    Amateur Bodybuilder Detour5's Avatar
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    Genetics can be overcome to a point. But if you're trying to get your lower abs to come in, that is diet. Us ladies have a harder time shifting fat from the lower half of our bodies and when I was contest dieting my lower abs and legs would be the last to come in. I have no idea about how Anavar (var) would help with that because I've never cycled, but from what I've read you're more likely to see the results post cycle assuming you maintain good diet and training protocols.

    Thanks for the compliments also, it's nice when you get them because it makes the sacrifices worth it

  10. #10
    Amateur Bodybuilder Detour5's Avatar
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    Just curious and hope you don't mind me asking but how old are you?

  11. #11
    Softy Tombraider's Avatar
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    Everything you said is so true... Cant put a price on experience hey thats why im here, to learn! Mrs.P gave me some good advice on my diet, and 3weeks out from my cycle im seeing my results... just like you said since i dropped my bf alittle im seeing my lower abdomen is more toned JUMPING FOR JOY. Im 22 now still a youngblood

  12. #12
    Amateur Bodybuilder Detour5's Avatar
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    Yup, getting bodyfat lower is the way to see abs. I cannot believe I'm a whole 10years older than you!! The day you realise you have a decade over someone who is already an adult is the day you say ok, when did I get old??!!!!! Lol! I'm glad you're seeing results. Stick to your diet, most people don't realise how important that is. Too many people focus on the training and exercise selection but truth is IMHO diet and genetics trumps that. That's why I could do all the calf raises in the world yet they'd still be out of balance with the rest of my legs. But you need to go through your journey and find what works for you.

  13. #13
    Softy Tombraider's Avatar
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    I still dont get it! I always hear from people your age how old they feel, but i see being in my thirties as a blessing Being in your twenties is all about finding yourself and learning tough lessons. People in their thirties have been through most of it (learnt most of the lessons they needed to learn) and can still look hot!!! Plus they say "life begins at 40" anyway riight ?

    And besides the fact that you mentioned your doomed calves, I kind of feel much better that im not alone with this problem and you sound fine with it. I shouldnt say problem!! Because its not a problem per se. Im hoping to accept it oneday and just be ok with what my genetic makeup has provided. But untill then i wont sleep until I improve on them lol you know how us young ones are

  14. #14
    Female Moderator Mrs P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombraider View Post
    I still dont get it! I always hear from people your age how old they feel, but i see being in my thirties as a blessing Being in your twenties is all about finding yourself and learning tough lessons. People in their thirties have been through most of it (learnt most of the lessons they needed to learn) and can still look hot!!! Plus they say "life begins at 40" anyway riight ?

    And besides the fact that you mentioned your doomed calves, I kind of feel much better that im not alone with this problem and you sound fine with it. I shouldnt say problem!! Because its not a problem per se. Im hoping to accept it oneday and just be ok with what my genetic makeup has provided. But untill then i wont sleep until I improve on them lol you know how us young ones are
    haha, u are right about the 30's.. I feel much more confident now in my 30's than I did in my 20's. I do believe age is only a number though but experience does teach u a thing or two.

    We all have a body "part" that we wish we could change, I'm ok with my calves but of course there are other many areas I could improve.

    Glad your getting good results

  15. #15
    Amateur Bodybuilder Detour5's Avatar
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    Oh mentally and physically I don't feel old, that's where the shock comes in...the realisation that I have a decade over someone who is an adult!! I think I'm still discovering myself, life is a journey from start to end. Becoming a parent once showed me how I really was thinking I was a tolerant person then realising I wasn't as much as I thought. Becoming a parent the second time taught me that I'm more tolerant than I thought I was. Then with my body, a decade ago I loved the well trained look on a woman, Monica Brant was one of my idols. Now, I really don't like that look for me and prefer a more streamlined look and so bothered about maintaining a year round ultra lean look. But with my knowledge with competing and the on/off season I know that very few women maintain the magazine fitness model look, and living that lifestyle for a few years opened my eyes.. I'm more comfortable with myself now though even if I still want to make changes.

    I think we are ever evolving creatures, so always keep an open mind. You simply might want to change your ideas about yourself in a few years, but then again you might not.

    I'm so not bothered about my calves, yeah I'd like them bigger and I train them, but I'm not walking down the street thinking everyone is judging me because my calves aren't as developed as my quads lol.. Believe me, most people really don't care

    Quote Originally Posted by Tombraider View Post
    I still dont get it! I always hear from people your age how old they feel, but i see being in my thirties as a blessing Being in your twenties is all about finding yourself and learning tough lessons. People in their thirties have been through most of it (learnt most of the lessons they needed to learn) and can still look hot!!! Plus they say "life begins at 40" anyway riight ?

    And besides the fact that you mentioned your doomed calves, I kind of feel much better that im not alone with this problem and you sound fine with it. I shouldnt say problem!! Because its not a problem per se. Im hoping to accept it oneday and just be ok with what my genetic makeup has provided. But untill then i wont sleep until I improve on them lol you know how us young ones are

  16. #16
    Amateur Bodybuilder Detour5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs P View Post
    haha, u are right about the 30's.. I feel much more confident now in my 30's than I did in my 20's. I do believe age is only a number though but experience does teach u a thing or two.

    We all have a body "part" that we wish we could change, I'm ok with my calves but of course there are other many areas I could improve.

    Glad your getting good results
    Spot on as always

  17. #17
    Softy Tombraider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs P View Post
    haha, u are right about the 30's.. I feel much more confident now in my 30's than I did in my 20's. I do believe age is only a number though but experience does teach u a thing or two.

    We all have a body "part" that we wish we could change, I'm ok with my calves but of course there are other many areas I could improve.

    Glad your getting good results
    Exactly! That confiedence is priceless Age is just a number yes, though i learn so much in one week- it humbles me to think how much people older then me have learnt!

    Ive seen pictures of your body and to be honest lol i dont see anything you need to improve on... haha and you have beautiful calves strong, feminine physique!

  18. #18
    Softy Tombraider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detour5 View Post
    Oh mentally and physically I don't feel old, that's where the shock comes in...the realisation that I have a decade over someone who is an adult!! I think I'm still discovering myself, life is a journey from start to end. Becoming a parent once showed me how I really was thinking I was a tolerant person then realising I wasn't as much as I thought. Becoming a parent the second time taught me that I'm more tolerant than I thought I was. Then with my body, a decade ago I loved the well trained look on a woman, Monica Brant was one of my idols. Now, I really don't like that look for me and prefer a more streamlined look and so bothered about maintaining a year round ultra lean look. But with my knowledge with competing and the on/off season I know that very few women maintain the magazine fitness model look, and living that lifestyle for a few years opened my eyes.. I'm more comfortable with myself now though even if I still want to make changes.

    I think we are ever evolving creatures, so always keep an open mind. You simply might want to change your ideas about yourself in a few years, but then again you might not.

    I'm so not bothered about my calves, yeah I'd like them bigger and I train them, but I'm not walking down the street thinking everyone is judging me because my calves aren't as developed as my quads lol.. Believe me, most people really don't care
    ooooh i see what you mean... Life really flashes by and before you know it all the small kids are driving cars Its nice though that you still see yourself as young, i know some people after having kids- add like 10years to their real age.

    Being lean all year round sounds like maintenance! I wouldnt try it id be too scared to lose my muscle.

    But youre right! Nobody cares about my calves, only i do. Sooner i accept them the better!! This is a tooouuuggh sport my God!!!

  19. #19
    Amateur Bodybuilder Detour5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombraider View Post
    ooooh i see what you mean... Life really flashes by and before you know it all the small kids are driving cars Its nice though that you still see yourself as young, i know some people after having kids- add like 10years to their real age.

    Being lean all year round sounds like maintenance! I wouldnt try it id be too scared to lose my muscle.

    But youre right! Nobody cares about my calves, only i do. Sooner i accept them the better!! This is a tooouuuggh sport my God!!!
    In the sport you do need to maintain at some level otherwise dieting for shows is gonna be tougher than tough. I don't know how much muscle you think you'd actually lose, but it wouldn't be as much as you think. When you built your foundation naturally your body retains it. I stopped weights and the high protein diet 2 years ago (my protein intake is shocking low) and I still have sizable quads, biceps/triceps (I don't work them directly at all, no dumbells or barbells on them at all..) Because I had a fair amount of muscle so my metabolism stays relatively high enough to keep burning (some) fat to not get too flabby looking even though my protein is low and carbs are high.

    I wouldn't advise maintaining real low body fat for anyone, especially ladies because it's really unhealthy and I've felt the side effects of trying that - not worth it, not if you want to keep your relationships!!!

    So what exactly are your goals? I get you want to lean some and add some size? Or add shape?? What's the ultimate goal?

  20. #20
    Female Moderator Mrs P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombraider View Post
    Exactly! That confiedence is priceless Age is just a number yes, though i learn so much in one week- it humbles me to think how much people older then me have learnt!

    Ive seen pictures of your body and to be honest lol i dont see anything you need to improve on... haha and you have beautiful calves strong, feminine physique!
    aww, thank u so much girl
    u are too kind.. saw your pics too & u look great !! keep up the good work

  21. #21
    Softy Tombraider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detour5 View Post
    In the sport you do need to maintain at some level otherwise dieting for shows is gonna be tougher than tough. I don't know how much muscle you think you'd actually lose, but it wouldn't be as much as you think. When you built your foundation naturally your body retains it. I stopped weights and the high protein diet 2 years ago (my protein intake is shocking low) and I still have sizable quads, biceps/triceps (I don't work them directly at all, no dumbells or barbells on them at all..) Because I had a fair amount of muscle so my metabolism stays relatively high enough to keep burning (some) fat to not get too flabby looking even though my protein is low and carbs are high.

    I wouldn't advise maintaining real low body fat for anyone, especially ladies because it's really unhealthy and I've felt the side effects of trying that - not worth it, not if you want to keep your relationships!!!

    So what exactly are your goals? I get you want to lean some and add some size? Or add shape?? What's the ultimate goal?
    Yes you would need to maintain, what in your advice is a good bf percentage to maintain if say you do bikini shows? Or fitness? I guess I am actually petite, once i drop my salt and carbs and lean out i look small (not dense muscles) or atleast thats what i think ?? Still young so need to test this out over time i guess because i may just be sacrifcing muscle while leaning....

    Ok so my goals are!!! To build my calves (mainly). Im leaning out now and the only areas i struggle with are the calves and lower abdomen (which we spoke about). Im build similiar to you. thick glutes, no problems with upper legs but have been reuilding them since my injury. So i would just like to add some decent size to my calve, and lean out. plausible?

  22. #22
    Amateur Bodybuilder Detour5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombraider View Post
    Yes you would need to maintain, what in your advice is a good bf percentage to maintain if say you do bikini shows? Or fitness? I guess I am actually petite, once i drop my salt and carbs and lean out i look small (not dense muscles) or atleast thats what i think ?? Still young so need to test this out over time i guess because i may just be sacrifcing muscle while leaning....

    Ok so my goals are!!! To build my calves (mainly). Im leaning out now and the only areas i struggle with are the calves and lower abdomen (which we spoke about). Im build similiar to you. thick glutes, no problems with upper legs but have been reuilding them since my injury. So i would just like to add some decent size to my calve, and lean out. plausible?
    Fitness and bikini are two different categories. Fitness girls tend to be more muscular and leaner whilst bikini girls tend to be less developed and not as lean. Bikini is meant to be attainable by anyone whereas fitness you have to be athletic. Figure girls generally have pretty much the same build as fitness girls but not quite as hard because the routine round practice really does change your body. But, the look also depends on the type of show so you'd need to do your homework.

    Bodyfat % is down to what looks good on YOU. Some people need to come in leaner whereas other people would sacrifice their overall look if too lean. It's about total package. So say you compete at 9%, which is pretty damn low, in the off season you could maybe hover around 15-17%, I would try to stay in the mid-teens. Some people stick lower like 13%. Depends on how lean you are naturally, your diet and general activity to determine your comfortable zone. Off season should allow you to relax though.

    I don't know about your calves. Post a picture. You can grow them and lower body fat, but it wouldn't be a huge amount because to lower body fat you'd have to be in a deficit. Everyone who competes has something against them so posing is your best friend. How you present yourself no matter your flaws is how you win. Hope this makes sense?

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