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  1. #1
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    Please critique my program
    Hey guys I've just started a test deca cycle and made up a new program I wanna know what you think. I especially need to put some size on my shoulders and biceps. I'm pretty stisfied with my chest back and legs But my arms and traps are pretty small in comparison.

    I do everything pyramidal (12,10 , 8, 6 reps)

    Day 1 Back, abs
    Barbell bentover row
    4 sets

    Lat pulldown (wide grip)
    4 sets

    Reversed push-ups
    I basically pull myself up holding a bar with my feet resting on a bench
    4 sets

    I do a machine similar to lat pulldown but a close grip
    4 sets

    weighted sit-ups
    6 sets of 10-15 reps

    Obliques


    Day 2 Pecs, Biceps

    Barbell bench press on the smith machine
    4 sets

    Bench press using handles on a cable machine
    4 sets

    inclined pec fly
    4 sets

    Declined pec fly on a machine
    4 sets

    Barbel curl
    4 sets

    inclined dumbell hammer curl
    3 sets

    Bicep machine
    3 sets


    Day 3 Legs, abs
    Squat on a smith machine
    4 sets

    Leg press
    4 sets

    Leg curl
    4 sets

    Leg extension
    4 sets

    weighted calf extension
    4 sets

    Abs machine
    5 sets


    Day 4 Shoulders, triceps
    Arnold press
    4 sets

    Lat raise
    4 sets

    Front raise
    3 sets

    reversed fly using cables
    3 sets

    Upright row using a barbell
    3 sets

    Shrugs using handles with cables
    3 sets

    Close grip press
    4 sets

    cable tricep extension using a bar
    4 sets

    Tricep extension machine
    3 sets



    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Ology Apprentice IronReps's Avatar
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    Too much volume imo.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronReps View Post
    Too much volume imo.
    Even on gear? And for what muscles? All of those last about 60 minutes.

  4. #4
    Ology Apprentice IronReps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Claude View Post
    Even on gear? And for what muscles? All of those last about 60 minutes.
    Yeah. Particularly Chest and Biceps. Just my .02 though.

  5. #5
    Jacked and Tan MeatHead96's Avatar
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    Yep too much volume. Look into 5x5. Just cause your on gear doesn't mean you should train more. You should be stronger which should cause you to grow with proper diet.

  6. #6
    Amateur Bodybuilder Diced's Avatar
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    If u want bigger arms forget about ur biceps, Hit ur triceps and do more compound exersises. The bicep is a small muscle . isolation wise u should only do 2 exersises on it at best . Chuck them in on a compound day or whatever . They also need time to rest . Traps upright row,shrugs should do the trick .

    Diced

  7. #7
    Amateur Bodybuilder Diced's Avatar
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    Also u might wanna think about training either biceps/triceps together on the one day or Back,biceps togther and chest and triceps together

    Diced

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diced View Post
    If u want bigger arms forget about ur biceps, Hit ur triceps and do more compound exersises.

    Diced
    What do you mean? that program includes 11 sets of triceps and the majority of exercices are compound.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeatHead96 View Post
    Yep too much volume. Look into 5x5. Just cause your on gear doesn't mean you should train more. You should be stronger which should cause you to grow with proper diet.
    Are you saying that series of 5 reps are better for hypertrophie than series of 8-12?

  10. #10
    Amateur Bodybuilder Diced's Avatar
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    my bad i should probabaly read the whole thread. Just dont go doing 1000 reps on ur biceps son. thats probabaly to much on ur triceps . good compounds r the best for stimulating hypertrophy of the muscle stick with them rest well. ull b fine

    Diced

  11. #11
    Motivated DaHurt's Avatar
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    Toss the Smith Machine brother. Do real bench press and real squats, the difference is definitely not trivial.

  12. #12
    Amateur Bodybuilder balboa270's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^this and fuck every machine im a diffrent lifter but i dont touch machines

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaHurt View Post
    Toss the Smith Machine brother. Do real bench press and real squats, the difference is definitely not trivial.
    uurgh I fucking hate that!

  14. #14
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    I'm curious, why is everyone SOO against machines? I understand if someone did mainly machines but I have maybe 5 in my entire 4 day split.

  15. #15
    Motivated DaHurt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Claude View Post
    I'm curious, why is everyone SOO against machines? I understand if someone did mainly machines but I have maybe 5 in my entire 4 day split.
    I think machines have their place. My problem is with using a machine to replace a staple compound movement such as the bench and certainly the squat.

    The point of these big compound movements is maximal recruitment, and by using a machine you eliminate the need for many stabilizing auxiliary muscles.

    There's a reason everyone can do more weight on the Smith Machine, because it's easier, you don't have to stabilize the weight because it's limited to one plane of motion, but you're also slighting yourself by not challenging the muscle fully.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaHurt View Post
    There's a reason everyone can do more weight on the Smith Machine, because it's easier, you don't have to stabilize the weight because it's limited to one plane of motion, but you're also slighting yourself by not challenging the muscle fully.
    Ok but it could be argued that the main muscle (quads and glutes) are utilized to their full capacity and you're really maximizing their potential strenght by pushing an even bgger weight. Don't you think?

  17. #17
    Ology Apprentice IronReps's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with machines. The best chest workout I've ever had was all machines. If you're working the muscle, then you're working the muscle. But using a Smith Machine for something like squats is less than ideal. Since it's on a set track and the weight isn't the same, you're cheating yourself in a way.

  18. #18
    Ology Apprentice IronReps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Claude View Post
    Ok but it could be argued that the main muscle (quads and glutes) are utilized to their full capacity and you're really maximizing their potential strenght by pushing an even bgger weight. Don't you think?
    You're not really pushing a "bigger weight". 135 on a squat rack is literally heavier than 135 on the smith machine. With all of the mechanics of the wiring and shit, the weight gets carried a little more by the machine.

  19. #19
    Motivated DaHurt's Avatar
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    You asked for a critique, I gave you my opinion. There's a reason you don't see pro BBers or powerlifters doing bench and squat using a smith machine.

  20. #20
    Motivated DaHurt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronReps View Post
    If you're working the muscle, then you're working the muscle.
    This is somewhat true but there are a lot of muscles that aren't getting worked maximally. Further, if you limit a motion to a single plane, it will still recruit fewer muscle fibers in the main muscle group you're working. Smith machines limit the potential directions the weight can go in considerably (only letting it go up and down), BB press allows more freedom thus is more challenging (now the weight can go up, down, forward, and backward), and DB press allows even more freedom (now not just forward and backward, but also side to side). The more potential directions the weight can go in, the more likely it will be that you're recruiting as many motor units (and thus muscle fibers) as possible.

  21. #21
    Ology Apprentice IronReps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaHurt View Post
    This is somewhat true but there are a lot of muscles that aren't getting worked maximally. Further, if you limit a motion to a single plane, it will still recruit fewer muscle fibers in the main muscle group you're working. Smith machines limit the potential directions the weight can go in considerably (only letting it go up and down), BB press allows more freedom thus is more challenging (now the weight can go up, down, forward, and backward), and DB press allows even more freedom (now not just forward and backward, but also side to side). The more potential directions the weight can go in, the more likely it will be that you're recruiting as many motor units (and thus muscle fibers) as possible.
    Yeah I can see that being the case. I guess you sold me on it.

  22. #22
    Motivated DaHurt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironreps View Post
    yeah i can see that being the case. I guess you sold me on it.

  23. #23
    Jacked and Tan MeatHead96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaHurt View Post
    I think machines have their place. My problem is with using a machine to replace a staple compound movement such as the bench and certainly the squat.

    The point of these big compound movements is maximal recruitment, and by using a machine you eliminate the need for many stabilizing auxiliary muscles.

    There's a reason everyone can do more weight on the Smith Machine, because it's easier, you don't have to stabilize the weight because it's limited to one plane of motion, but you're also slighting yourself by not challenging the muscle fully.

    Good post, fuck the smith machine. If you can't squat/bench it the real way then don't do it at all. Other machines do have theyre place but never to replace important free weight compound movements imo.

  24. #24
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    Way too much volume brah.

    5x5 is a great workout for adding good solid size gains. I just started a variation and it's going awesome!!

  25. #25
    Junior Bodybuilder BeastinTheEast's Avatar
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    Eh i'm not trying to sound like the rebel or anything but there's guys in my gym who use smith for bench (not squat) a lot and have some pretty ridiculous chests. They do regular benching as well but i see them start with smith machine most of the time. I guess it's all subjective, Not to say it's superior (cause it's not) but it does still work! I like to do benching in a power-cage and set the pins so i can literally go all out to the very last rep and not worry about the bar smashing me. If i could pick one thing to have it'd be one of those cages it's money all around!

    But on topic there is definitely a good amount of volume there, i really would say it's up to you man. If you can recover and give it 100% then try it. People can only judge what the routine looks like by their experiences so it'll be really tough to get a clear answer. I think it's a good thing to experiment with training and see how it works for you, I've had old-school volume workouts where i would do almost 100 sets total and I've also tried Mentzer HIT style 1 set along with DC style. Once you try them all you can combine them to what suits you the best. The worst thing you can do is just do 1 thing, getting the experience from different training styles will teach you how your body will react.
    Last edited by BeastinTheEast; 01-16-2012 at 10:36 PM.

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