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  1. #1
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    Androgel stopped working after 2 wks, ED set in, switched to injections and ED is...
    ...still here.

    My questions are at the bottom.

    History: I went to my family doctor over a year ago at age 38 (5'10" and 180lbs and young looking) with low energy, thinning hair, weak erections, lack of motivation, cloudy thoughts, etc. She tested my testosterone and it came back as 340ng/dl. She said I was perfectly NORMAL because their lab ranges were 250-900ng/dl.

    After I complained she sent me to an Endocrinologist. He was in his 70's and very old school. He sent me for blood work and I tested at 400ng/dl. He said I was WELL into the normal range and gave me Viagra, patted me on the head and sent me home. I complained and then got sent to Penn State to their Endocrinologist. I tested at 310ng/dl for them and they accused me of wanting to start body building because nobody sees 3 doctors and keeps going back after being told I was normal. They said they couldn't help me. They told me my problems must be purely psycological--hair thinning and all.

    I gave up. A year later I decided I had enough of feeling crappy and being sexually unsure of myself with my wife. I did a little research and found that Thomas Jefferson University in Philly has an Endocrinology Clinic specializing in Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). JACKPOT!! I applied online to become a patient online and was given an appt. I went in and tested at 325ng/dl. My PRL, Cortisol, and PSA looked good but my LH was at the bottom of the range at 2.7. He said they can't fix a LH problem so I needed HRT.

    The doctor prescribed me Androgel 1.62% at 2 pumps per day. (2.5mg) On day 3 I started feeling AWESOME. I had morning erections I could chop wood with! I got spontaneous erections all day and even the slightest erotic thought resulted in an instant solid erection as good or better than my adolescent years. I had a STRONG libido and was having erotic dreams. I felt physically stronger, my muscles felt harder, I was confident, I was sleeping really well, had no more muscle aches and pains, and over-all just felt GOOD. I lost 8lbs in those 10 days too.

    This lasted until day 12. On day 13 I woke up with NO morning erection. All that day there were no erections at all and I felt tired and sluggish. I was worse than before treatment! I assumed that my testes shut down and I lost my natural testosterone and was only getting it from the Androgel. I called the doctor and he bumped me to 3 pumps per day (3.75mg) and said to call him back in 2 weeks.

    2 weeks later on day 27 there was no change really after bumping up to 3.75mg. I was still having weak erections at best, no morning erections, still tired and sluggish. I also found out that gels/creams weren't my insurance's preferred Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) drug because it cost $62.50/bottle and Testim was even more expensive. They told me a 6 month supply of inject-able testosterone cypionate 200mg bimonthly was only $9.51. vs $750.00 for the Androgel at 5mg a day. I called the doctor and he put me on 200mg testosterone cypionate IM every 2 weeks. (1ml from a 10ml/2000mg bottle)

    I gave myself the first shot in the ventrogluteal 5 days ago and have seen no improvement. I have an oilier scalp, forehead, and face though. My erections have not returned at all to what they were in week 1 and 2 and my libido is not really strong but I do have sexual thoughts.

    So far this was all by phone with no blood tests. My 60 day follow-up appt is in 90 days because he had no openings. My lab slip for my follow up has no check boxes for anything other than diabetes profiles and total testosterone. What about Free Testosterone, Estrogen, Prolactin, Cortisol, DHT, etc?

    I checked my blood pressure today and it's a little higher than before but not bad at 129/80. It was 110/70 a few weeks before Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) because I gave up caffeine and sodas. Before giving those up it was consistently 120/80.

    Why would I have such a positive reaction at first and then crash? ...I know my testes shut down but raising the dose with the gel and further increasing it with the shot should have brought it even higher and caused some improvement I would think.

    Could the testosterone aromatizing to estrogen cause me to have weak erections and these symptoms? I don't have sore or itchy boobs or any other E2 symptoms.

    Could the increased testosterone be causing an increase in Prolactin or Cortisol?

    I just want to feel like I did in week one and two!

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Were you applying the gel in the same spot?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvettels3 View Post
    Were you applying the gel in the same spot?
    Yes. I was applying it to my rib cage area on my sides as per the doctor. He said I would get better absorption there. I didn't change anything at all. Imagine my disappointment on day 13!!

    Since I made this post I have found a few other similar threads and the general consensus is that E2 may be out of control in most cases.

    I thought this Endocrinologist was on top of things and very thorough until recently. My phone calls have lowered my confidence in him. I am thinking he deals more with diabetes and post-menopausal women than younger men with androgen issues. He can redeem himself if he agrees to look into my E2 and prescribe an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) if needed.

    I am going to call him in 2 weeks and ask for a new lab slip with more options. I want to know my E2 level.

    I need to find a more specialized Endocrinologist that can help me somewhere in the Eastern PA/Maryland/New Jersey area.

    I am also considering trying 100mg a week for a few weeks rather than 200mg every 2 weeks. Do you think that will help at all? I just have to pick up a few more needles.

  4. #4
    Jackie Moon corvettels3's Avatar
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    That might have been your problem. You need to rotate your sites.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvettels3 View Post
    That might have been your problem. You need to rotate your sites.
    I am off Androgel and on IM test cyp. I have not started feeling any improvements yet though.

  6. #6
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    Well, I'm not quite sure of your timeline, but it sounds like you've only been on the Test Cyp for a short time. It usually takes about a month for people to really feel the effects. You are right that you should be testing for estrogen (E2, specifically).

    I must say that your report is the first I've read of an insurance company actually preferring injectable over the creams. (Even if it is only to save them $.) Usually I hear the opposite in that they will only cover the creams, which makes no sense. Perhaps insurance companies are waking up.

  7. #7
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    IMHO, I think going to weekly shots will help. I also think your E2 is probably high. It takes a few days for the new T in your system to convert to E2. I had a very similar experience. I am still trying to get dialed in, so I am not an expert, but it might behoove you to get a PrivateMD labs female hormone panel test. With a coupon code, it is about $50, and will tell you your TT, FSH, LH, E2, and the regular CBC (blood count) info. Very helpful to keeping on track, especially considering the small investment. Post back up if you can't find a coupon code, and I will PM you one.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 03ACE View Post
    IMHO, I think going to weekly shots will help. I also think your E2 is probably high. It takes a few days for the new T in your system to convert to E2. I had a very similar experience. I am still trying to get dialed in, so I am not an expert, but it might behoove you to get a PrivateMD labs female hormone panel test. With a coupon code, it is about $50, and will tell you your TT, FSH, LH, E2, and the regular CBC (blood count) info. Very helpful to keeping on track, especially considering the small investment. Post back up if you can't find a coupon code, and I will PM you one.
    Nearly everything Ace said. You need the sensitive assay for E, not the standard female assay.
    I think you are spot on for the initial spike - your testes were still producing for a while and so you had stacks of T. I had the same thing when I started on cream. Got crystal clear mental clarity for the first time in ages, had a memorable gym session.

    I have never seen any evidence that for whatever reason you may need to rotate your sites, and that doesn't make sense to me.

    You should be starting to feel the Test Cyp now. But Test E definitely didn't give me the quick spike that cream gave me.

    E could be the problem. There is plenty of evidence pointing to transdermals causing much more aromatisation than injectables, and you don't need to be growing tits before you suffer other effects of high E.

  9. #9
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    Same thing happened to me
    Hey did you figure this out? Exactly the same thing happened to me...

  10. #10
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    I managed to get about 3 weeks out of Androgel before I crashed and felt worse than before testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). I also seemed to have dull headaches all day from it and very dry mouth and chapped lips. I got my doc to switch me to injections and so far so good. I'm only about 6 weeks in and need to go back for follow up blood work soon. I'm currently on 50mg E5D. I think I'm going to have a battle getting my doc to get my levels where I think they should be. I think he is shooting to get me to the 400's

    Stick with the injections and get your numbers checked in a few weeks.

  11. #11
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    I get headaches and chapped lips too!! My endo is hating on injections though because she thinks it will shut down my HPA more than transdermals...

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