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  1. #1
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    I'm an idiot! My E2 isn't high, It's LOW!
    Okay so not too long ago I complained of high E2 and Low Free testosterone, etc etc. Links is here:

    steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/626071-low-test-high-e2-will-help.html


    So basically, I was photocopying some lab results for the endo I'll be seeing tomorrow, and I noticed that the E2 is 62 pmol not PG/ML! This means my E2 is low! And it explains why I have been having all of these joint pains and dull orgasms with decent erections.

    Okay, now to rephrase the original question, if I have low free testosterone at 1.23 NG/DL and low E2 at 16.8 PG/ML, what exactly is going on here? Is it simply I'm not producing enough testosterone, so it's not aromitizing enough into e2?

    Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    just a Lil guy!!!
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    What are you taking and how much?

  3. #3
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    I'm not taking anything. I've had symptoms of Low-T for years now and am trying to figure out what on earth is going on with my body. Haven't touched any steroids yet.

  4. #4
    just a Lil guy!!!
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    Well there ya go. You have low t and e. Did you go to an endo? How's your libido? Probably blows. Having high e or low e has horrible sides.

  5. #5
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    my libido is shit! And yeah sex is fucking frustrating as hell when i cant even predict when my erection will be good one day and then shitty the next.

    I got low blood pressure 100/60 as well, dunno wtf is up with that.

    seeing the endo tomorrow. he specializes in this shit apparently, so hopefully he's not a douche

  6. #6
    Junior Bodybuilder ryand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke84 View Post
    my libido is shit! And yeah sex is fucking frustrating as hell when i cant even predict when my erection will be good one day and then shitty the next.

    I got low blood pressure 100/60 as well, dunno wtf is up with that.

    seeing the endo tomorrow. he specializes in this shit apparently, so hopefully he's not a douche
    Very interested in this, please keep us updated. Sorry to hear about it also, hope things work out for you bro.

  7. #7
    just a Lil guy!!!
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    Ya most likey you will be put on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and most likely will solve all your issues. If you go on test it will boost your test and elevate e

    What are your stats and age buddy?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigherm2121 View Post
    Ya most likey you will be put on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and most likely will solve all your issues. If you go on test it will boost your test and elevate e

    What are your stats and age buddy?
    I'm 5'6
    150 pounds
    aprox 30-35% body fat all concentrated in my gut region
    poor muscle tone
    age 26

    Been working out for years with barely any gains, and started to suspect my problem was hormonal when my sex drive and performance went into the shitter.

    Anyways, so today I went to this endo in toronto, and it was at mount sinai, so i had assumed that maybe the doctor would be a good endo since on the website it said he specialized on hypogonadism and low-t and all that.

    Well, I got there, and the guy claims my testosterone is normal and that he was willing to prescribe for me cialis or viagra. I broke down, embarrassingly enough from the frustration of going through this for years now and desperate to start. Funny how he was so quick to prescribe ED drugs, but not the actual treatment I NEED.

    I disagreed with him and told him how it was. He told me he wanted a bio-t test then follow up after that. So I basically said "Here's what's going to happen; I'm going to get tested, be in the low low normal range, and then you'll send me home" and that's when the conversation degraded and went downhill. I asked him what he would do if it was not in the range, and he said he'd test it again, and what's fucked up enough, is the fact that I gave him two photocopies from march and april showing my test and e2 levels which are obviously messed up for a man my age. When I broke down like a bitch in front of him, the asshole was completely deettached and just told me he'd refer me to someone else since I didn't agree with him. I declined any of his help, and thanked his assistant who specialized in cytogenics for being so understanding and actually agreeing with me, but unfortunately that guy had no power to do anything.

    In short, this endo wasted my time and money, I was so pissed I ended up calling in sick for the afternoon part of my work. When I went to my GP who I had been working closely with on this for the last while, he looked disgusted when he found out the endo tried to give me viagra and said next time he'd refer me to a urologist instead of an endo. I'm anxious to start testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) now, though, and have the gear ready, but my family is urging me to wait some more and keep getting the tests. Dont know how long I can keep this up for. Depression is hard to manage because it's not caused by anything, it's just "there", and I know it's from the shitty hormone levels. Anyways, will keep you all posted, this fucking blows.

  9. #9
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    Hold on tight buddy. It sounds like your problems can be fixed by testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and once you start and you will start I'm sure one way or another you will feel like a different, much happier man. It sounds like most doctors are clueless when it comes to Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) even those who are specialists in the field. The same can be said about lawyers, engineers and software analysts, there are good ones and there are bad ones. Look for others patients in the Toronto area in the forum and see if they can recommend someone who knows what they're doing.

    You will prevail. You're educating yourself with all this great information and that right there is half the journey.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by zgx View Post
    Hold on tight buddy. It sounds like your problems can be fixed by testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and once you start and you will start I'm sure one way or another you will feel like a different, much happier man. It sounds like most doctors are clueless when it comes to Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) even those who are specialists in the field. The same can be said about lawyers, engineers and software analysts, there are good ones and there are bad ones. Look for others patients in the Toronto area in the forum and see if they can recommend someone who knows what they're doing.

    You will prevail. You're educating yourself with all this great information and that right there is half the journey.

    Thanks, ZGX. It gets frustrating, but I guess I'm not the only one who is going/gone through this. I agree with you, and will keep on trying. I think it's a good idea to talk to others in the Toronto area.

  11. #11
    zgx
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    It is frustrating but you're taking charge of it now while you're still very young. I'm 31 and have ha my share of woes from libido to physical and psychological perspectives. I have no clue what my levels were at 26 but I wish I would have taken action then, you will see similar statements from folks from all walks of life in this forum. It will only get better from here, like I said you'retaking the right approach and before you know it you will look back and these symptoms will be a part of your past.

    I'm not trying to say that testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is a one trick pony that you can "set it and forget it" it requires patience sometimes as you begin to turn in the dials and see what works best for you but in the end is a much better standard of living than the one you may be experiencing today.

  12. #12
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    Smoke: Hang in there. You're well on your way. That Endo isn't the only dickhead you'll meet in the medical profession. Think of how you've come so far.

  13. #13
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    But you asked a question: Okay, now to rephrase the original question, if I have low free testosterone at 1.23 NG/DL and low E2 at 16.8 PG/ML, what exactly is going on here? Is it simply I'm not producing enough testosterone, so it's not aromitizing enough into e2?

    You're not producing enough T. It would be great to know why, but maybe you'll never find out. Maybe you can not worry about it, just fix the T and live with it.

    I still think the legal route is the way to go. I know I like it. For instance I travel a lot. To be able to prove that my T is legit is rather good.

    Sometimes it is suggested to go and talk to a compounding pharmacy. I did that and got a lot of information - complete with a detailed rundown of which were the right doctors to see.

    Above all: keep your chin up. You have a legitimate problem and you deserve legitimate treatment.

  14. #14
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    Got another idea. I can see you are just about at your wits' end, and you're not thinking that clearly. I wouldn't be either. I don't want to see you get on the illegal T path when you not need to - you deserve legal treatment. But as soon as you start injecting you're on a bit of a path that takes time to get off, simply because you'll feel so good you'll be shit scared of stopping because of the depression that you won't want to re-visit.

    I was on AndroForte for four months. It was a pain compared to injecting, but it DID fix my depression, and my brain fog, and so on. It also had the benefit of being very fast acting, with a short half-life - it is plain T, without an ester. And, like any endogenous T it shut down my natural T production. ( My nuts really shrunk, far more than the Test E that I am on now. You reckon you're not that masculine - my nuts were like a pre-pubescent boy's.)

    The manufacturers of AndroForte do export without a scrip, not to the US but I think they do to Canada. So to get you through this period you could get a tube of it, and deal with your depression. (And also drive your T way low if you go for another blood test. Worked for me.)

    Good luck mate. Keep talking to us. Lots of friends to help here.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke84 View Post
    my libido is shit! And yeah sex is fucking frustrating as hell when i cant even predict when my erection will be good one day and then shitty the next.

    I got low blood pressure 100/60 as well, dunno wtf is up with that.

    seeing the endo tomorrow. he specializes in this shit apparently, so hopefully he's not a douche
    My friend, Utopia is right around the corner for you. All I can say is a word of warning, not to you, but to your wife or gf, I hope you're in really good shape to handle this beast of a man !!! LOL

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cool dude View Post
    My friend, Utopia is right around the corner for you. All I can say is a word of warning, not to you, but to your wife or gf, I hope you're in really good shape to handle this beast of a man !!! LOL
    Haha yeah, my girlfriend is already well aware of what may happen after I start my injections. She is a bit afraid considering our sex life is still pretty good. Not sure how I am even able to perform as well as I do most days, but I can only imagine what I'll be like AFTER I get my hormones to where they should be.

    Started taking adderall today at work to give me a temporary boost until I get started on the shots. Does anyone know if the T shots make you feel even better than adderall in regards to mood and energy/motivation? Very interested in the differences. For me, today, I got a crap ton of work done and felt (mentally and energetically) fantastic. I'm hoping I'll get similar or better results on the T. I'll keep you all posted.

  17. #17
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    So, there was something I forgot to mention when I saw the endo. He wanted me to do a sleep study. At the time, I was too pissy and angry to really even consider it. Anyways, last few days I started thinking about it, and I learned that these studies are used to see if a person has sleep apnea. Basically sleep apnea is disrupted breathing while you sleep, which can cause a host of issues, as well.

    I've had rest issues for as long as I can remember, AND I've also had breathing problems all my life with nostrils that collapse when trying to breath in through my nose and if that doesn't happen, feels like barely any air is getting in them. Because of this, I am a mouth breather, but I have a weak chin and the throat feels clogged and congested at times (my nose as well), so my breathing is in pretty bad shape AND.... wait for it..

    My girlfriend has said that she has witnessed me stop breathing in my sleep at times and it worries her when it happens. I've always had bad memory issues and because I am fertile, somewhat, I'm starting to think that my problem may not even be primary hypogonadism, after all.

    Doing some more blood work, though, on a wide variety of things, will post bloodwork and ask doctor to send me for sleep study, may have to look into getting a nose job and jaw surgery to really correct this. God I wish I was rich..


    Also, another thing, I've noticed in my life, at times, I'd have the odd very good nap, and wake up with the most solid erection ever, but when getting a full nights rest at regular hours, id have no morning wood and felt like shit. Guys, I think I am on to something here, and I have googled this a bit and found that there is indeed a link between low testosterone and sleep apnea. If you have an unknown cause of low-t, please look into this as you could be avoiding treatment you seriously need. Sleep apnea is linked to diabetes and stroke and etc. My father definitely has this with how he snores and he suffered from a heart attack only a few years ago in his early 50s. He also has physical signs of low-t from what I can tell, so at this point, I'm fairly certain our genetics are garbage and this is why we have the crappy breathing problems.

    I'll keep you all posted.

  18. #18
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    All the signs of low T are exactly the same signs of sleep apnea. Its definately worth getting the test mate. At least then you can rule out other medical issues.

    Im 25 and was diagnosed with sleep apnea at 22. At 72kg (158lb) and an active sports person, i never would of thought that i would of had it.

    Sleep apnea increases all of those risks due to sleep deprivation. Slowly your T gets driven down, oter hormones start going out of balance because your arent going through the cycles of sleep properly, which then starts a landslide of medical issues.
    In some people T levels can be returned to normal if sleep apnea is the only issue. I on the other hand suffer from both low T and sleep apnea. After becoming compliant with my CPAP machine, my sleep improved ten fold, but this did take a few months to get right.

    Good luck mate, youve found another possible issue which you can now sort out

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedLang View Post
    All the signs of low T are exactly the same signs of sleep apnea. Its definately worth getting the test mate. At least then you can rule out other medical issues.

    Im 25 and was diagnosed with sleep apnea at 22. At 72kg (158lb) and an active sports person, i never would of thought that i would of had it.

    Sleep apnea increases all of those risks due to sleep deprivation. Slowly your T gets driven down, oter hormones start going out of balance because your arent going through the cycles of sleep properly, which then starts a landslide of medical issues.
    In some people T levels can be returned to normal if sleep apnea is the only issue. I on the other hand suffer from both low T and sleep apnea. After becoming compliant with my CPAP machine, my sleep improved ten fold, but this did take a few months to get right.

    Good luck mate, youve found another possible issue which you can now sort out

    Well, here's the interesting thing, and something i started noticing a couple of years back. I would have the odd day where I was dead tired after work, and I'd pass out completely and awake 2 hours later with the most solid erections ever. When I was in my last year of college, I was smoking marijuana regularly for about a year, and I had the most high quality sleep ever, and my erections were great and my strength and energy were also good, etc etc.

    So it made me think the last few days that perhaps, I do have sleep apnea. Also, i did a bit of research on it today, and found out that twitching and waking up suddenly in the middle of the night are also symptoms WHICH I HAVE! My girlfriend said that I literally jumped a foot up in the air in bed once while I was sleeping, which sounds pretty fucked up. Then I also learned that a weak chin (over bite and open bites) can also promote sleep apnea, and my dad has the same thing and has some loud snoring and just suffered a heart attack in his early fifties and even has signs of someone who is prediabetic, so im pretty sure this is due to crap genes.

    Oh, and my girlfriend also mentioned where she's witnessed me being out cold and not breathing for minutes at a time. That is very bad and would explain my hypgonadism-like symptoms. I am fertile as well, so more and more it looks like sleep apnea. Fuck me.

    Anyways, im 99% sure ive had this since I was a child because im pretty under developed as a 26 year old man and it would explain all of the adrenal symptoms I had as a child as well. Had HGH defficiencies recorded from early records and it all just seems to fit, which totally sucks because if this had been treated I would have reached a much farther physical potential, so I'm pretty pissed off about this and all the crap i've gone through all these years.
    Last edited by Smoke84; 06-15-2012 at 08:35 PM.

  20. #20
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    Get yourself a CPAP and have a good sleep. Took me a long time to get used to it, but it is very good.

  21. #21
    Oregon Coast Duner BoBoy's Avatar
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    Like most guys mine starts once my weight goes over a certain amount , like 195 lbs . plus I have a short large neck which is a recipe for sleep apnea . I"m on a test cycle now and my weight just went over 200 lbs and I"m waking up more and feeling tired . Time to pull the CPAP machine out of the closet.....~Bo

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBoy View Post
    Like most guys mine starts once my weight goes over a certain amount , like 195 lbs . plus I have a short large neck which is a recipe for sleep apnea . I"m on a test cycle now and my weight just went over 200 lbs and I"m waking up more and feeling tired . Time to pull the CPAP machine out of the closet.....~Bo
    I have read that increased weight can be a major cause, but in my case, I am very skinny, have not much muscle, and just have a lot of fat in the gut area. I've always had breathing problems as a child and even today, often these days, I still have difficulty. If I try breathing through my nose, the nostrils will just collapse. I'm sure it's because my throat is closed or nearly closed from the positioning of my jaw being back and not aligned with my face (if you look from the side). I'm pretty sure this is what stunted my growth as a child because I was never a heavy kid, either. I'm going to try and get a sleep study done soon and hopefully that will shed some light on this mystery. I'll probably end up using testosterone, though, because my secondary characteristics are poorly developed, and I refuse to keep living my life like this. I don't care if I have to do a heavy cycle of diabonol, I just want to deepen my voice and enhance my physical maturity.

    Living like this has been a nightmare. I'm not taken seriously at work, I am constantly brushed off, and people like to start fights with me, and this all happens no matter how polite or professional I am being. I'm just at the point where I am fed up, and feel like no one understands because this is not a very common problem. Although I went through puberty, I feel like I am under developed and most people cannot even fathom what it is like to live your life as a second-class citizen. So, that's basically what led me to looking into steroids to begin with. I'm just sick of being like this. Always tired, poor libido, no concentration, poor short-term memory, always getting stares from people like there's something wrong with me, etc. Anyways, thanks for listening.

  23. #23
    Oregon Coast Duner BoBoy's Avatar
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    You need to hook-up with IMT here (sponsor) and get right , I can hear your frustration . It seems like you have a
    lot of issues . First things first start a good weight training program that stresses compound exercises , eat quality foods , add a good whey protein , have a sleep study , check-out IMT . When you get right tell co-workers to eat shit & die (you gotta talk back to those who would ridicule you) and keep in touch with group , the best advice is right here . ~Bo

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