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Discussion on Testosterone Replacement Therapy

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  1. #1
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    Default How is the proper hcg dosage determined?
    We have total and free test to determine test dosage. We have E2 to determine adex dosage.

    How do we know if our Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dosage is optimum?

  2. #2
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    Their is really no test to take, although it mimics the LH hormone it will not show up on a blood test.

    Scally has written anything less than 500iu in a shot is a waste of time and money. He also notes it is important to get a feel to how you respond to HCG, individually.

    Also there is some research suggesting it is ok to shoot your Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) once a week, due to the biphasic pattern. I personally have never tried it.

  3. #3
    A.B
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    its individual.. the test for me is my balls dont shrink like raisins I usually hit 500IU twice a week. 250iu just wasnt enough for me.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the info Det and AB.

  5. #5
    Novice IZZOT's Avatar
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    I used 250IU twice per week and found 500IU one time per week worked best for me. It seems like trial and error but only You know your body the best.

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    I'm curious what you mean by 'worked best'? I haven't ever used hcg, that's why I have want to know. Hcg will be a part of my upcoming protocol, so I'm trying to collect some info on it. Hopefully the info will help me get dialed in a little quicker.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK View Post
    Their is really no test to take, although it mimics the LH hormone it will not show up on a blood test.

    Scally has written anything less than 500iu in a shot is a waste of time and money. He also notes it is important to get a feel to how you respond to HCG, individually.

    Also there is some research suggesting it is ok to shoot your HCG once a week, due to the biphasic pattern. I personally have never tried it.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. This is as accurate a statement regarding the optimization of HCG for Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) as we can make given the research we have available at this time.

    There are many so-called 'gurus' out there but I am most inclined to agree with Scally and his recommendations based on the work he has done and subsequently published.

  8. #8
    jrj
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashout View Post
    Couldn't have said it better myself. This is as accurate a statement regarding the optimization of HCG for Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) as we can make given the research we have available at this time.

    There are many so-called 'gurus' out there but I am most inclined to agree with Scally and his recommendations based on the work he has done and subsequently published.
    Excuse my misunderstanding, but are you saying to take 500IU at a time, once per week?

  9. #9
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj View Post
    Excuse my misunderstanding, but are you saying to take 500IU at a time, once per week?
    HCG has a Bi Phasic pattern, while it is true that levels will become more stable by increasing dosage frequency, lets talk about how exactly HCG works, cause there is a study floating around out there that it proved once a week dosing with HCG successfull clinically.

    When you inject HCG your testicles are stimulated, shortly after they go into what is called a "refractory period" and there is no stimulation for 72 hours. After that period testosterone is secreted once again, although just not as much.

    I think when they did it in the study it was like 1,000 IU a week.

    With that being said I think cashout was just reiterating that HCG is individual preference, and one must get a sense to how they respond to it, individually.

  10. #10
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    Here is the science behind this protocol:
    An in vivo injection or an episode of LH secretion induced by GnRH, results in stimulation of the side-chain cleavage enzyme with the subsequent release of testosterone within 30-60 minutes of LH stimulation. The acute response to an injection of LH is dramatic in some species such as the rat and the ram but is much more attenuated in the human. This testosterone response lasts approximately 24-48 hours. If human chorionic gonadotrophin is used as an LH substitute, the kinetics of the initial stimulation are similar to LH but a second peak of testosterone secretion is evidence with hCG and occurs 48-72 hours after the initial injection. This biphasic pattern has been attributed to the observation that between 24 and 48 hours after an LH or hCG injection, the Leydig cells are refractory to further stimulation by either hormone. The second phase of testosterone secretion after hCG but not LH is associated with the longer half-life of hCG in comparison to LH. The hCG levels persist in the circulation and, following recovery from the refractoriness, testosterone levels increase. This observation has significant clinical importance since, in many men, a single weekly injection of hCG will suffice to maintain optimum testosterone responses rather than the frequent practice of giving injections of hCG two to three times per week.

  11. #11
    Novice IZZOT's Avatar
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    Awesome info DET. Your are on a roll these last few days!
    Question: Do we get desensitized to the HCG over time? One doc told me yes and another doc says no. Your opinion?

  12. #12
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZZOT View Post
    Awesome info DET. Your are on a roll these last few days!
    Question: Do we get desensitized to the HCG over time? One doc told me yes and another doc says no. Your opinion?
    Its tough to say for sure 100% , If we do I don't think its permanent.

    check it out

    HCG desensitization.......does it exist?


    These discussions are for hypothetical purposes only

  13. #13
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    I don't know of any desensitization from HCG. Having read a ton of studies, I have a lot of thoughts on HCG. 1st is that many many studies can be thrown out as they do no apply to Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). Those are the ones that say that 1000 to 10,000iu per injection. So for example if there were secondary secretion of T after 5,000iu, who cares, that doesn't apply to us. There are also studies that say Anything over 400iu per injection for the purpose of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) is a waste. I do believe this statement. Dr Crisler says that 100% of his patients respond optimally to a maximum of 350iu/injection. He always starts with less and works his way up. So do other sponsors and ex-sponsors.

    I've changed my dosage 5x. I personally feel that 250-1000iu/week is ideal. But like T if the dosage is too large, you will aromatise. I also think that if your primary hypogonadal, less is better, if your secondary aim for the 1000iu/week mark, just divide it by 2 or 3. I inject 350iu/day 2 and day 4 of 5 days.

    Again these are just my opinions based on articles that I've read, and personal experience.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.B View Post
    its individual.. the test for me is my balls dont shrink like raisins I usually hit 500IU twice a week. 250iu just wasnt enough for me.
    Same for me, 500iu. Balls are still smaller than normal, but aren't shrinking any more.

    I have also found that fresher HCG works better. Every time I pop a new vial I can tell my e2 goes up and my balls get just a little bigger.

    So I only use a vial for 30 days max.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mylesmg View Post
    Same for me, 500iu. Balls are still smaller than normal, but aren't shrinking any more.

    I have also found that fresher HCG works better. Every time I pop a new vial I can tell my e2 goes up and my balls get just a little bigger.

    So I only use a vial for 30 days max.
    Agreed. I keep the vial for 60 days, but by the end I need to up the dose. Typically I use 200IU twice per week with 200mg Test per week.

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