Discussion on Testosterone Replacement Therapy
Growth Hormone Optimization
I have been speaking with a lot people lately, friends of mine that are on TRT and are not getting the results they want. They are interested in losing more fat around the mid section, and having more endurance over all.
When we inject exogenous testosterone, our HPTA is surpressed, not just our testicles. I think some forget sometimes that it is the actual process that gets shut down, not just the testicles.
Growth Hormone production is increased by the production of testosterone, not the amount of it in the blood stream. It is true that studies show an increase in igf-1 when androgen therapy is administered, although this does not necessarily mean that GH was stimulated.
This has been seen in women that have normal insulin readings yet they are insulin resistant, especially at the pituitary.
This causes conditions such as Non- Alcoholic fatty liver diseases, which is basically a build up of fat in and around the liver.
The point of this thread is to point out the striking synergistic effect when it comes to adjusting someone's GH secretion and testosterone levels simultaneously. Growth Hormone regulation will decrease c reactive protein, optimizing metabolic health, allowing you to get the job done when it comes to battling insulin, improve heart health and cholesterol.
Not only are there those benefits, but Growth Hormone optimization through these secretogues also stimulates a brain gut peptide called Ghrelin, this hormone is getting TONS of attention right now, and it is found that people who live longer, and have healthier BMI, have higher levels of this Brain Gut Peptide, because it stimulates GH secretion.
There are some occurrences of people gaining weight on the peptides, when not used properly, please consult your physician to find the proper program for you when it comes to these secretogues.
Last edited by THE-DET-OAK; 04-25-2012 at 12:46 PM.
are you suggesting optimization through the use of peptides then? GHRP's, etc?
There are many different ways to do it, all factors need to be carefully considered be deciding which way to tackle the issue.
Im just saying if your not getting the results you want, and your cholesterol is giving you issues due to your TRT, you may be missing a piece of the puzzle.
The peptides work great, if dosed properly for the individual, and diet is sustained along side.
Originally Posted by Spongy
great info Det!! a real gem and it made my morning to read this!
I think if we in fact could get the same GHRH and GHRP that we see used and described in these studies then yes the post makes perfect sense.
I do question the GHRH and GHRP's available to us though in the same way I question any folli currently for sale out there. I'm not so sure the quality is the same after I did some blood work a few months ago after mega dosing some peps. It may not be fair to dump all peps in the same basket based on one test on one brands GHRP GHRH though.
I am willing to do one more test with a different brands GHRH and GHRP testing serum levels since I get nothing but excuses when I ask why igf levels remained at baseline for me.
Thanks Zeek, feels good coming from a Vet like you.
quick question for those on TRT, ever had trouble sleeping after being on TRT for a while? or do you need to sleep 9 hours to feel refreshed? it shouldn't be that way..........
i am def interested in the peptides, as they are cheaper, and my cholesterol went thru the roof when on hrt. it was 309 least time i had it checked, and my diet is better now than it was a while back, but if extra test is a major contributor to my cholesterol, then
will peptides help me along with a solid diet, in the aspect of better cholesterol?
thanks guys this is anawesome post det!
and yes DET i have not slept well, or even woken up feeling like i was more tired than i should feel!
how do you change this, with peptides?
I agree, I have had the best results on the prescription grade peptides, by far.
Originally Posted by Zeek
Question Zeek, how old are you?
The reason I ask is because the older you are, the more you need to get a stimulation, and GHRP -2 has to be introduced for you as well.
The peptides actually work better for those before the age 40-45.
those over 50 seem to not get stimulation, since the peptides need a the machinery to work, to get the stimulation. The more the machinery is out of date the less stimulation you can get.
These are the things that must be considered when evaluating someone to decide the best route of Growth Hormone optimization for them.
Those over 50 can use them, but the dose needs to be adjusted accordingly.
One of the great things about the peptides is they start working in days, to where rHGH takes about a month for me to notice changes.
Originally Posted by j2048b
I can't guarantee that it will help cholesterol, but all the guys I've seen do Gh OPT, their blood work ALWAYS improved.
It is VERY important that the peptides are dosed and timed properly, the idea is to mimic the body's natural pulsitale secretion of GH.
and yes it will DEF help or increase your REM sleep
Last edited by THE-DET-OAK; 04-25-2012 at 01:11 PM.
That could very well be my issue with the GHRH GHRP's I am right on 50's door!!
Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK
Thanks again for some info that I did not know!!
It is why i love this board man!! learn something every single day
No problem bro! IMPO your age and previous GH optimization with rHGH, may have you turned off to a point of no return, and rHGH is your course for the future
Thats DEF not a bad thing though!
Effect of Ghrelin on Glucose-Insulin Homeostasis: Therapeutic Implications
On the other hand the ability to efficiently build fat reserves in times of nutritional abundance appears to have resulted from evolutionary pressure to protect against subsequent periods of food scarcity. The tendency to efficiently store fat in times of caloric excess appears to have become paradoxically maladaptive in settings of continuous food availability, as indicated by the present epidemic of obesity in Western societies. The data obtained in the last years seem to indicate that ghrelin may be one of the primary mechanisms by which an individual can sense changes in nutrient availability and trigger biological responses that modulate the efficiency of energy storage (and particularly fat deposition) during periods of fuel overflow or after a period of scarcity of nutrients. At present, ghrelin is the only peripheral orexigenic factor that is effective upon its intravenous administration . Put in this context, the blockade of the route of ghrelin could prove useful in controlling adiposity in human obesity, as blockers of the orexigenic signal from the gastrointestinal tract to the brain, or diminishing the ability to efficiently store fat reserves. Inverse agonists of the ghrelin receptor, by blocking the constitutive receptor activity, might lower the set-point for hunger between meals [110, 154]. All these data suggest that ghrelin-ghrelin receptor modulation has the potential to improve the diabetic condition by promoting glucose-dependent insulin secretion and promoting weight loss.
In contrast, ghrelin may be useful as an orexigenic agent for the treatment of eating disorders such as anorexia nervosa. Administration of ghrelin can stimulate appetite and improve the nutritional status of these patients. However, plasma ghrelin concentrations in anorexia nervosa are high, indicating a situation of ghrelin resistance . In fact, circulating ghrelin levels have been found altered in different clinical situations, like renal failure or hepatic failure [101, 155]. Ghrelin-derived drugs could also be useful in all the clinical situations associated with cachexia, such as malignancy, advanced cardiac failure, renal failure, postoperative patients, and human immunodeficiency virus-lipodystrophy. In Table 8 we summarize putative ghrelin effects on glucose-insulin homeostasis and related physiological actions.
The Altered somatroph function of obesity is not permanent. It can be reversed by a return to normal weight or by short- term calorie restriction. The most striking example of reversibility appeared when obese subjects were treated with GHRH plus Ghrp-6
, both at saturating doses, which resulted in a massive GH response.
Critical Care Management of the Obese Patient - Google Books
Last edited by THE-DET-OAK; 04-26-2012 at 12:03 AM.
However, a low IGF-I level is sufficient for diagnosis, without the need for additional provocative testing, in patients with high probability of AGHD. GH therapy offers significant clinical benefits in body composition, exercise capacity, skeletal integrity, and QoL measurements, especially for patients with severe clinical andiochemical abnormalities. The adverse events and therapeutic risks are low. Protocols for GH dosing regimens and for monitoring the therapeutic outcomes are now well-established and easily available in the guidelines.
Long Term Growth Hormone Therapy is Safe
In adults, GH replacement therapy will often be maintained for decades. Owing to the long duration of GH replacement in many adults, it is essential to establish the long-term safety aspects of the treatment. In this review, studies that have investigated the safety profile of long-term GH replacement will be reviewed with an emphasis on studies based on data from the Pfizer International Metabolic Database (KIMS). These studies show that long-term GH replacement in adults is safe and that long-term GH replacement may even improve cardiovascular mortality and morbidity in GH-deficient adults.
Svensson, J., & Bengtsson, B. (2009). Safety aspects of GH replacement. European Journal of Endocrinology , 161 (1), S65-74.
Growth hormone (GH)
Sarcopenia and subsequent frailty lead to loss of independence. While aging is not a disease, it results in significant body composition and functional changes which affect the individual and the community at large. Aging represents a milder form of adult GHD, and GH replacement in GHD has met with success. Since the aging pituitary remains responsive to GH and GHS, it is reasonable to suggest that GH replacement or stimulation might be indicated in aging. However, elders are more sensitive to GH, and thus more susceptible to the side effects of replacement. Stimulating GH with GHS instead of GH replacement has the advantage of a more physiological approach to increase endogenous GH pulsatility with theoretically decreased risk for side effects (Arvat et al 2000).
In a 6 month study of healthy men and women over the age of 65 using GH alone or in combination with estrogen/progestin in women and testosterone in men, GH administration increased lean body mass (LBM) in women with or without estrogen/progestin (28)). In men GH and testosterone increased LBM when given alone and had an additive effect in combination.
In men total fat mass decreased with either testosterone or GH alone, but the decrease was greatest with the combination, whereas in women GH decreased fat mass while sex steroids did not change fat mass. Body strength did not improve in women and slightly increased in men only in the GH + testosterone arm of the trial. There was no evidence that co-administration of sex steroids altered the frequency or severity of GH related side effects.
Age-Related Changes in the Growth Hormone Axis and Growth Hormone Therapy in the Elderly - Chapter 2 : Endocrinology of Aging | EndoText.org
Growth hormone secretagogues such as GHRH, ghrelin, and their mimetics stimulate the secretion of GH. Since most AGHD is caused by pituitary lesions, and these patients, unlike healthy seniors, are unresponsive to GHRH or GHS, there are few studies of treatment with these agents.
Theoretically, treatment with GHS should lead to more physiologic GH replacement, leading to a pulsatile rather than prolonged elevation in GH and preserving the ability for negative feedback inhibition of GH by increasing IGF-I. GHS effects are influenced by the same factors which modulate endogenous GHRH secretion, such as negative feedback by somatostatin. This normal negative feedback regulation would be expected to result in buffering against overdose. The side effects of GHRH treatment are similar in character to GH treatment, but are milder and less frequent. And, since the GHS are smaller molecules than GH, and generally resistant to digesive enzymes, they can be administered via the oral, transdermal or nasal routes.
Last edited by THE-DET-OAK; 04-25-2012 at 02:50 PM.
Abstract Congenital combined pituitary hormone deficiency (CPHD) is associated with deficiencies of anterior pituitary hormones. PROP1 gene mutations are often responsible for CPHD, but few such cases have been reported in Japan. This study describes a 37-year-old Japanese man with CPHD, treated with hydrocortisone, testosterone, and L-thyroxine, who was evaluated for adult growth hormone deficiency (GHD). Gene analysis revealed a previously unknown PROP1 mutation (R112X). After 10 months of recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH) administration, cortisol and urinary free cortisol levels were significantly lower than before therapy. This case underscores the importance of reassessing hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis function in GHD patients, especially those with a PROP1 mutation, during rhGH therapy.
Postprandial changes in plasma GH and insulin concentrations, and responses to stimulation with GH-releasing hormone (GHRH) and GHRP-6 in calves around weaning
From these results, we conclude that postprandial levels of plasma GH and insulin concentrations are altered after weaning and by aging, and that the quality of diets or development of the neuroendocrine functions in the digestive pituitary system may be involved in this alteration
Basically this says results vary greatly depending on your diet with GHRH and GHRP
Last edited by THE-DET-OAK; 04-26-2012 at 12:11 AM.
Last edited by THE-DET-OAK; 04-25-2012 at 11:12 PM.
ok so what is a base line "good" diet to run while using the peps?
Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK
also is it customary to run them 3 times a day 30 min before any carbs, or is it ok to run them 5 on 2 off 2 times a day, or what is the best approach and what goes well together as ive seen -6 and -6 coupled together but have read diffrent views as to which actually works better?
also what r some sides to look for while using these peps?
Effects of ghrelin, GH-releasing peptide-6 (GHRP-6... [Pituitary. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of ghrelin, GH-releasing peptide-6 (Ghrp-6
) and GHRH on GH, ACTH and cortisol release in hyperthyroidism before and after treatment.
[Ghrelin and growth hormone secr... [Arq Bras Endocrinol Metabol. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI
Growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH) and somatostatin modulate growth hormone (GH) secretion. A third mechanism was discovered in the last decade, involving the action of growth hormone secretagogues (GHS). Ghrelin, the endogenous ligand of the GHS-receptor, is an acylated peptide mainly produced by the stomach, but also synthesized in the hypothalamus. This compound increases both GH release and food intake. Endogenous ghrelin might amplify the basic pattern of GH secretion, optimizing somatotroph responsiveness to GHRH, activating multiple interdependent intracellular pathways. However, its main site of action is the hypothalamus. In the current paper it is reviewed the available data on the discovery of this peptide, the mechanisms of action and possible physiological roles of the GHS and ghrelin on GH secretion, and finally, the possible therapeutic applications of these compounds.
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