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  1. #1
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    What gains to expect. Test Cyp
    Current age: 41
    Current Weight: 215
    BF: 11%
    Training History: over 20yrs

    I was recently put on HRT (Hormone Replacement Treatment) by my doctor. My blood levels were 316ng/ml and 2.8 free. He felt this was low enough to start me on HRT. My diet is consistent at 2600cal and ratios of proteins, carbs and fats are 60/30/10. About 300g of protein from egg whites, baked chicken and tuna. Around 200g a day carbs are from oats, brown rice, yams and whole grain pasta.

    Training - Legs, Shoulders/Tri, Back/Calves and Chest/Bis EOD. One on One off. Reps are 8-10 and sets are 5-7 for larger muscles and 5 for smaller.

    Meds are:
    Test Cyp- 1.1cc (220mg) 1x/week
    Arimidex (Anasrozole) 1mg 3x/week
    Avodart 0.5mg ED
    Lovasa 1GM 4caps/ED
    Corvite Free 1 am/pm

    This is my first time with AAS. Theoretically, what am I to expect as far as strength and weight gain?

    Also, some have thought that the Arimidex at 1mg E3D should be more like 0.5mg E3D.

  2. #2
    Moderator Mr P's Avatar
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    moved to appropiate forum.

  3. #3
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    My appologies for posting in the wrong section. Thank you for the redirection.

  4. #4
    Knowledge Receptacle Mr. Humdiddly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnStar View Post
    Current age: 41
    Current Weight: 215
    BF: 11%
    Training History: over 20yrs

    I was recently put on HRT (Hormone Replacement Treatment) by my doctor. My blood levels were 316ng/ml and 2.8 free. He felt this was low enough to start me on HRT. My diet is consistent at 2600cal and ratios of proteins, carbs and fats are 60/30/10. About 300g of protein from egg whites, baked chicken and tuna. Around 200g a day carbs are from oats, brown rice, yams and whole grain pasta.

    Training - Legs, Shoulders/Tri, Back/Calves and Chest/Bis EOD. One on One off. Reps are 8-10 and sets are 5-7 for larger muscles and 5 for smaller.

    Meds are:
    Test Cyp- 1.1cc (220mg) 1x/week
    Arimidex (Anasrozole) 1mg 3x/week
    Avodart 0.5mg ED
    Lovasa 1GM 4caps/ED
    Corvite Free 1 am/pm

    This is my first time with AAS. Theoretically, what am I to expect as far as strength and weight gain?

    Also, some have thought that the Arimidex at 1mg E3D should be more like 0.5mg E3D.
    Hmmm... Consensus dictates... not much with that diet and workout. Bump up the cals and check out the link in RJH90210's signature.

  5. #5
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    Well, the idea behind testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is to bring you back to normal levels. So, I guess your gains (pivoting on your diet, training, and rest) will be comparable to someone who is within a normal T range.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Humdiddly View Post
    Hmmm... Consensus dictates... not much with that diet and workout. Bump up the cals and check out the link in RJH90210's signature.
    hahahahahaha that is effing awesome !!!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnStar View Post
    Current age: 41
    Current Weight: 215
    BF: 11%
    Training History: over 20yrs

    I was recently put on HRT (Hormone Replacement Treatment) by my doctor. My blood levels were 316ng/ml and 2.8 free. He felt this was low enough to start me on HRT. My diet is consistent at 2600cal and ratios of proteins, carbs and fats are 60/30/10. About 300g of protein from egg whites, baked chicken and tuna. Around 200g a day carbs are from oats, brown rice, yams and whole grain pasta.

    Training - Legs, Shoulders/Tri, Back/Calves and Chest/Bis EOD. One on One off. Reps are 8-10 and sets are 5-7 for larger muscles and 5 for smaller.

    Meds are:
    Test Cyp- 1.1cc (220mg) 1x/week
    Arimidex (Anasrozole) 1mg 3x/week
    Avodart 0.5mg ED
    Lovasa 1GM 4caps/ED
    Corvite Free 1 am/pm

    This is my first time with AAS. Theoretically, what am I to expect as far as strength and weight gain?

    Also, some have thought that the Arimidex at 1mg E3D should be more like 0.5mg E3D.
    My program (HRT) is, in some respects, similar to yours...

    200 mg Test E + Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) weekly, ADex Mon/Thurs, Propecia ED.

    My initial level of total test 579 ng/dl and my free was in the "normal" range.

    So by the "average man" standard, my test was not low. However, for me it was. My normal numbers for 16 years ranged from low 800's to mid 1100's with free test always over 200.

    After I made the case with my urologist, he agreed to work with me on my current protocol.

    I have direct access to a DEXA so I know I've gained 4.7 pounds of lean body mass and drop 1.6% body fat over the last several months.

    My body fat is 7.1% and at 40 years old, I feel fantastic. I am about 10 pounds off of my previous competitive bodybuilding weight but that is not the goal at this stage in my life.

    I write all this to say, I would not expect big gains. If I were you, I would look forward to a much improved feeling of wellness. Sure, you'll have more drive and energy to lift but I doubt it will translate in to massive increases in your mass or lifts.

    Regards.
    Last edited by cashout; 01-10-2011 at 10:17 AM.

  8. #8
    Pro Bodybuilder CHIP WADOWSKI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashout View Post
    My program (HRT) is, in some respects, similar to yours...

    200 mg Test E + Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) weekly, ADex Mon/Thurs, Propecia ED.

    My initial level of total test 579 ng/dl and my free was in the "normal" range.

    So by the "average man" standard, my test was not low. However, for me it was. My normal numbers for 16 years ranged from low 800's to mid 1100's with free test always over 200.

    After I made the case with my urologist, he agreed to work with me on my current protocol.

    I have direct access to a DEXA so I know I've gained 4.7 pounds of lean body mass and drop 1.6% body fat over the last several months.

    My body fat is 7.1% and at 40 years old, I feel fantastic. I am about 10 pounds off of my previous competitive bodybuilding weight but that is not the goal at this stage in my life.

    I write all this to say, I would not expect big gains. If I were you, I would look forward to a much improved feeling of wellness. Sure, you'll have more drive and energy to lift but I doubt it will translate in to massive increases in your mass or lifts.

    Regards.
    CASHOUT... that is fantastic, bro. 7.1%. Even if you are a naturally lean body type, that is still a SHITLOAD of hard work to maintain year round. I don't really think most people have a truly realize just how lean that is and how much work it takes to get there and stay there.

    I do think, though, that the gains that "newbies" to the HRT/TRT world make would be viewed as much more drastic than what you may feel. I'm not calling you out, in any way, I'm just saying that if you are/were used to competing, than you are used to a vastly different lifestyle than many men who are new to the "game". I think that most are starting out having been bottomed out for quite a while and when they begin their therapy, the initial boost and gains that they make in most cases are at LEAST what they were hoping for, if not MORE than they expected.

    But the "end game" is to get to the point that cash is at.... and STAY THERE.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHIP WADOWSKI View Post
    CASHOUT... that is fantastic, bro. 7.1%. Even if you are a naturally lean body type, that is still a SHITLOAD of hard work to maintain year round. I don't really think most people have a truly realize just how lean that is and how much work it takes to get there and stay there.

    I do think, though, that the gains that "newbies" to the HRT/TRT world make would be viewed as much more drastic than what you may feel. I'm not calling you out, in any way, I'm just saying that if you are/were used to competing, than you are used to a vastly different lifestyle than many men who are new to the "game". I think that most are starting out having been bottomed out for quite a while and when they begin their therapy, the initial boost and gains that they make in most cases are at LEAST what they were hoping for, if not MORE than they expected.

    But the "end game" is to get to the point that cash is at.... and STAY THERE.
    Chip, not seen as a call out at all my friend. Most assuredly, for those folks who have been in the trough for a while or newbies, you are right, there will be some gains and I'd agree they will be more pronounced as well.

    You know, you are also correct, about the body fat thing as well. Most folks do a bad job of visually assessing body fat and "self-reported" body fat is a lot like "self-reported" income - almost never accurate at all.

    We have a DEXA in the building here on campus next to my office. I am always amazed when our athletes hop in the DEXA and get their body fat measured and find that they are 13%or 14% and not the 8% that they believe themselves to be.

    I am a natural mesomorph. I've never been above 10% body fat in my adult life. At least once a week, I'm asked by somebody if I'm getting ready for a show. Of course, 26 years of the lifestyle have also contributed to that as well.

    Regards.

  10. #10
    RJ
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    great advice from Cashout and Chip. gains will be relative to what you've been feeling with low test levels and what you're used to having 11 years of training.

  11. #11
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    I am making huge gains on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) because I am used to having to make gains with like a 200 test level. I bust my ass in the gym though. I wouldn't expect to gain a whole lot if you aren't lifting weights regularly and with intensity. If I didn't work out I doubt I'd gain that much muscle.

  12. #12
    Straight Up Gangster ! Die$eL~Man's Avatar
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    at 200 mgs ? i would not expect any major changes other than feeling better

  13. #13
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    I am new to HRT as well. Currently taking 300mg Test C, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 2X's week, Armidex 3X's a week.

    How would I change this protacall to add more gains.

    We all want to feel better but I know I'll feel better when I look better!

    Thanks Guys for all your feedback. Great site.

  14. #14
    Pro Bodybuilder CHIP WADOWSKI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vawnman View Post
    I am new to HRT as well. Currently taking 300mg Test C, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 2X's week, Armidex 3X's a week.

    How would I change this protacall to add more gains.

    We all want to feel better but I know I'll feel better when I look better!

    Thanks Guys for all your feedback. Great site.
    Your question is ambiguous. Are you asking about medication or are you referencing training, diet, etc.? If its a medication question, you'd probably want to run that by whomever is helping you with your therapy. If it's a training/diet question, than there is a ton of great advice I'm sure you'll get here.

    If you are new to HRT/TRT, my advice would be to not get to overzealous about the gains. They WILL come if you are dieting and training properly. Let your body adjust first to the hormonal balance you are trying to attain before you worry about playing with your meds. HRT/TRT and "running a cycle" are two different animals.

  15. #15
    RJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHIP WADOWSKI View Post
    Your question is ambiguous. Are you asking about medication or are you referencing training, diet, etc.? If its a medication question, you'd probably want to run that by whomever is helping you with your therapy. If it's a training/diet question, than there is a ton of great advice I'm sure you'll get here.

    If you are new to HRT/TRT, my advice would be to not get to overzealous about the gains. They WILL come if you are dieting and training properly. Let your body adjust first to the hormonal balance you are trying to attain before you worry about playing with your meds. HRT/TRT and "running a cycle" are two different animals.
    x2. your whole testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol changes when you up things to compensate for a "cycle".

    Your normal meds to keep you at regulated levels may not be able to do the job as they would on say 600mg of test per week.

  16. #16
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    Yeah, this forum is not the steroid forum. What most people fail to realize is a replacement dose is one tenth of what a pro athlete is taking. We keep it legal here and this is just for people that want to feel good, not be an ifbb pro bodybuilder. I have noticed a huge influx of posters in this forum lately inquiring about massive doses of testosterone. No doctor we know prescribes those amounts or even close.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjw2021 View Post
    Yeah, this forum is not the steroid forum. What most people fail to realize is a replacement dose is one tenth of what a pro athlete is taking. We keep it legal here and this is just for people that want to feel good, not be an ifbb pro bodybuilder. I have noticed a huge influx of posters in this forum lately inquiring about massive doses of testosterone. No doctor we know prescribes those amounts or even close.

    although you are right, IMO there is nothing wrong with adding a "cycle" alongside a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol. The problem lies with the person not taking into consideration the added hormones and not knowing how to deal with any sides.
    Last edited by RJ; 01-12-2011 at 02:08 PM.

  18. #18
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vawnman View Post
    I am new to HRT as well. Currently taking 300mg Test C, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 2X's week, Armidex 3X's a week.

    How would I change this protacall to add more gains.

    We all want to feel better but I know I'll feel better when I look better!

    Thanks Guys for all your feedback. Great site.
    Dude you will make plenty of gains at 300mg a week. Just look at the study in the anabolic forum of people with normal T levels they gained like10 lbs of lean mass and they DID NOT even work out.

    If a guy has low T lets say for instance in the low 2-400's he will surely make gains at 200mg a week. this will put his levels around 1200 which is 3x what it was before. thats 3x protein synthesis, 3x Igf-1 levels.

    The reason why some guys dont make gains at that dose when they come from low natty T is because they do not eat enough.

    T regulates metabolism. So I would assume they eat very little and still put on fat.

    Then they get their T levels where they are spposed to be and eat the same. This will not help them make gains.

    there is some mis information in this thread. Guys have to realise there is a HUGE difference between someone who has optimal T levels and someone who does not. the person who does not will not need much at all to improve their physique drastically. Now this is not to say its a replacement for the hard work, without that nothing happens.
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  19. #19
    RJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK View Post
    Now this is not to say its a replacement for the hard work, without that nothing happens.
    now if we could only get people to realize this FIRST!!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK View Post
    If a guy has low T lets say for instance in the low 2-400's he will surely make gains at 200mg a week. this will put his levels around 1200 which is 3x what it was before. thats 3x protein synthesis, 3x Igf-1 levels.
    Igf-1 levels go up with trt?

  21. #21
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    anytime you raise your T level it goes up. besides protein synthesis, thats one of the main things T increases.
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  22. #22
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    Great info guys.

    I'm in my late 40's. I weight and cardio train 5 times a week and really try to watch what I eat. I also take a good daily vitaman and protien drinks 2 to 3x's a day.

    I'll stick with the protocal and restest blood in 6 weeks from start.

    I'm not trying to be the Hulk here just want to look good, feel better, and and keep it safe and healthy.

    Thanks again guys

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die$eL~Man View Post
    at 200 mgs ? i would not expect any major changes other than feeling better
    yep thats what id say. unless you had very low levels before
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK View Post
    anytime you raise your T level it goes up. besides protein synthesis, thats one of the main things T increases.

    we may need to start a new thread about this, but to what extent do you feel this occurs? Honestly i have never heard this have any significance and I would assume any substantial increase would induce hyperplasia. How is the response signaled to the liver to send out more IGF-1?

    Thoughts?

  25. #25
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    I know in some ********* syndromes and "diseases" IGF-1 from the liver can be low while actual HGH output is not from the pituitary. I have to read more into this obviously.

    To the OP- I would not recommend drinking protein shakes 2-3x a day lol.

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