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  1. #1
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    Reasonable cruise dosing?
    I am on DR prescribed testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), and have been for about 1 1/2 years. I am prescribed 200mg every 2 weeks of test cyp. I have been splitting my dose and injecting 2 times per week to keep blood levels more stable.

    About a month ago I started adding in some EQ in hopes of it helping with some chronic joint issues I have.

    I have been injecting 200mg of test and 250mg of EQ per week (split in to 3 doses a week). To be honest I was not looking to increase my test dosage, but did not think the dosing through well and realized I that has been my dosing for the past 4 weeks or so.

    The EQ seems to have started helping my joints and it has certainly helped my appetite (which is usually weak).

    Is this dosage too high? Should I drop down to 100mg test/125mg EQ? Is it best to keep test and EQ equal or can I do 100mg test and 250mg EQ? I'm open to any advice you guys can offer.

  2. #2
    RJ
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    I don't like EQ for collagen synthesis, I would use Deca. But whatever you use, your test dose needs to be lower, as test will decrease collagen synthesis.

    Are you really injecting 50mg twice a week? What a pain in the ass. I was doing 100mg week (I'm on the same testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose as you) but stopped after not really noticing any difference. So i just do all 200mg once every other week.

  3. #3
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJH90210 View Post
    I don't like EQ for collagen synthesis, I would use Deca. But whatever you use, your test dose needs to be lower, as test will decrease collagen synthesis.

    Are you really injecting 50mg twice a week? What a pain in the ass. I was doing 100mg week (I'm on the same testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose as you) but stopped after not really noticing any difference. So i just do all 200mg once every other week.
    Thanks for the input. I was trying to avoid the dreaded deca dick, hence the EQ. Am I worried about a side that will likely not happen with the low dose od deca I would be using for this purpose?

    I use slin pins so poking even ED doesn't bother me and I definitely did not do as well as you do on the once every 2 week dosing, definite roller coaster for me.

    If I get my hands on some dec what kind of dosing would you suggest for joint relief (and not killing boners). My wife is pretty horny and will toss me out if I go limp noodle!

  4. #4
    Rebuilding...continually Irentat's Avatar
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    Only from personal experience....yours may vary:

    I specifically did a run of 250/400 test/Deca EW for 18 weeks. In that time, the libido was very strong, joints felt good and now 4 weeks after last pin, some major joint issues are resolved since pretty much all Deca has left the body by now. Specifically back issues gone, hip, and some shoulder benefit. Of course I was taking this protocol for my ankles and they are doing much better after the cycle. Minimal pain has returned overall.

    Many others speak of the joint issues coming back after cycling off. I really do not have this problem but since I was taking GH inducing peptides during the same time, this could also have an impact. One thing for certain is the Deca took away the pain, not the peptides. The reasons for hormonal Healing during this time is uncertain with my protocol but am probably not going to deviate much from my successful cycle next time.

    FYI, if I upped or reduced the Deca by 50 mg either way, I felt the difference and the same with the test (joint pain, libido, etc.).
    Last edited by Irentat; 11-04-2010 at 11:57 AM.

  5. #5
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    Thanks for the post, extremely informative.

    I think I will get some Deca and switch to that and save the EQ for a future blast.

  6. #6
    RJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natehayes View Post
    If I get my hands on some dec what kind of dosing would you suggest for joint relief (and not killing boners). My wife is pretty horny and will toss me out if I go limp noodle!
    i would dose it at 100/100 Test/deca respectively and give that a few weeks. If no joint help, up it to 200 on the Deca. You could start with 200/w, as this is the standard dose for joint pain, but i would see how little I needed first, and adjust accordingly.

  7. #7
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJH90210 View Post
    i would dose it at 100/100 Test/deca respectively and give that a few weeks. If no joint help, up it to 200 on the Deca. You could start with 200/w, as this is the standard dose for joint pain, but i would see how little I needed first, and adjust accordingly.
    Thanks again, that's what I will do.

  8. #8
    Still acting 1/2 my age Epic Ed's Avatar
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    I've also been running deca for joint pain relief. I'm nearing the end of my second cycle with it and I've found that, for me, anything less than 300mg EW of deca was ineffective for relief. I ran it for 12 weeks at 300mg the first time and wanted to see if I could just run 200mg this time and after six weeks at 200mg I decided it wasn't effective enough and bumped it up to 300mg. My test dose was intentionally higher than my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose since I was blasting. That aside, my regular cruising dose for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is 200mg EW and I split it up into two 100mg pins EW. I've found I prefer the stability it offers at that dose and that interval.

  9. #9
    RJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epic Ed View Post
    I've also been running deca for joint pain relief. I'm nearing the end of my second cycle with it and I've found that, for me, anything less than 300mg EW of deca was ineffective for relief. I ran it for 12 weeks at 300mg the first time and wanted to see if I could just run 200mg this time and after six weeks at 200mg I decided it wasn't effective enough and bumped it up to 300mg. My test dose was intentionally higher than my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose since I was blasting. That aside, my regular cruising dose for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is 200mg EW and I split it up into two 100mg pins EW. I've found I prefer the stability it offers at that dose and that interval.
    i bet that dose is required because of the higher test dose Ed. Test is notorious for decreasing collagen synthesis.

  10. #10
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    One more question, should I have prami or caber on hand in case of sides?

  11. #11
    RJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natehayes View Post
    One more question, should I have prami or caber on hand in case of sides?
    you proly won't have any problems, but i always liked to have Cabaser around anyway. Plus, if you don't need it, use it at 1mg/d and you become nearly multi-orgasmic.

  12. #12
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    Quck update.

    I'm about 6 weeks in EQ/test combo. Dropped my test to 100mg a week and upped EQ to 200mg. So far appetitie is better (not a big eater usually) and my joints have also been better, but not totally pain free. Plus the EQ has been leaning me out quite nicely.

    I have some deca on the way (should be here by end of the week). I plan on replacing the EQ with 100mg of deca to see if it is even better for my joints.

    I will definitely miss the EQ leanness though.

  13. #13
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    K, starting today I switched to the deca. As suggested I will start with 100mg test/100mg deca and see how that goes.

    How long should it take for me to feel joint relief (if any comes)?

  14. #14
    RJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natehayes View Post
    K, starting today I switched to the deca. As suggested I will start with 100mg test/100mg deca and see how that goes.

    How long should it take for me to feel joint relief (if any comes)?
    depends. Don't change anything like water intake yet (as that can help as well) to guage how long it takes. If by week 3 you don't feel anything, you can increase then.

  15. #15
    Rebuilding...continually Irentat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natehayes View Post
    K, starting today I switched to the deca. As suggested I will start with 100mg test/100mg deca and see how that goes.

    How long should it take for me to feel joint relief (if any comes)?
    I doubled up on my first pin when doing my 400 deca EW cycle and it too exacly 7 days to feel the effect on the joints. After 3 weeks I finally started feeling good every day and by week 12 I was a completely new person...pain-wise.

    Personally I don't think you will feel much, if anything on 100 EW but please let us know.

  16. #16
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    Will do, RJ.

    And I will keep everyone updated on whether 100mg/wk does anything.

  17. #17
    Novice dave@maximushrt.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irentat View Post
    I doubled up on my first pin when doing my 400 deca EW cycle and it too exacly 7 days to feel the effect on the joints. After 3 weeks I finally started feeling good every day and by week 12 I was a completely new person...pain-wise.

    Personally I don't think you will feel much, if anything on 100 EW but please let us know.
    I agree. You need at least 200mgs weekly to feel any therapeutic effects with Deca.
    Weight has a lot to do with dosing properly.

  18. #18
    Still acting 1/2 my age Epic Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJH90210 View Post
    i bet that dose is required because of the higher test dose Ed. Test is notorious for decreasing collagen synthesis.
    Good point. I had been thinking the gear might be a bit under dosed, but your assessment is more likely.

  19. #19
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave@maximushrt.com View Post
    I agree. You need at least 200mgs weekly to feel any therapeutic effects with Deca.
    Weight has a lot to do with dosing properly.
    I'm a flyweight, so 100mgs a week might just do me.

  20. #20
    RJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natehayes View Post
    I'm a flyweight, so 100mgs a week might just do me.
    either way, you need to find out what works for you. There are no definites in this game.

  21. #21
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJH90210 View Post
    either way, you need to find out what works for you. There are no definites in this game.
    I agree 100%. I also agree with you about using the smallest dose necessary to get the desired result which is why I am doing as you suggested and starting at 100mgs.

    Thanks for all your help.

  22. #22
    Rebuilding...continually Irentat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natehayes View Post
    I agree 100%. I also agree with you about using the smallest dose necessary to get the desired result which is why I am doing as you suggested and starting at 100mgs.

    Thanks for all your help.
    Based on trying to achieve permanent pain relief, you need to do something different. Here is my suggestion:

    Blast on Deca some amount north of 300 mg EW for 8-12 weeks and then cycle off and do again in 12-16 weeks. Short cycles are OK because you are not trying to bulk but to heal. Up your test only to counteract the Deca, if that even becomes an issue. Just note that the best results with Deca and pain relief come from stressing the area. Weight lifting/heavy resistance/impact workouts pretty much becomes mandatory.

    Implementing above regimen for myself cured multiple old injuries and stiff joints that have not reappeared afterwards.

  23. #23
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irentat View Post
    Based on trying to achieve permanent pain relief, you need to do something different. Here is my suggestion:

    Blast on Deca some amount north of 300 mg EW for 8-12 weeks and then cycle off and do again in 12-16 weeks. Short cycles are OK because you are not trying to bulk but to heal. Up your test only to counteract the Deca, if that even becomes an issue. Just note that the best results with Deca and pain relief come from stressing the area. Weight lifting/heavy resistance/impact workouts pretty much becomes mandatory.

    Implementing above regimen for myself cured multiple old injuries and stiff joints that have not reappeared afterwards.
    Hmmmm...very interesting. Since that is exactly my goal, I think I need to consider this some more. Your approach seems intriguing.

  24. #24
    RJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natehayes View Post
    Hmmmm...very interesting. Since that is exactly my goal, I think I need to consider this some more. Your approach seems intriguing.

    i know Irentat has some good knowledge about collagen synthesis and joint relief so i won't disagree (mainly cause I've never tried it).

    I will say once you have a plan, stick with it until it either works or doesn't. You'll drive yourself crazy going back and forth. Ultimately what works for us may never work for you.

  25. #25
    Amateur Bodybuilder Natehayes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJH90210 View Post
    i know Irentat has some good knowledge about collagen synthesis and joint relief so i won't disagree (mainly cause I've never tried it).

    I will say once you have a plan, stick with it until it either works or doesn't. You'll drive yourself crazy going back and forth. Ultimately what works for us may never work for you.
    Sound like good advice. I will definitely pick one approach and stick with it.

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