(Forum for members to discuss information on over the counter supplements)
The "Official M1T and PCT" Thread
I decided to start this and add some info I've gathered from researching the stuff, as I plan to start my cycle when I get the money.
What is M1T?
Methyl 1-testosterone, or 17aa-1-testosterone, is the methylated version of the steroid 1-testosterone. This structural modification makes steroids much more orally bioavailable by inhibiting breakdown in the liver. Although it has only been widely available for a short period of time, feedback on this compound indicates that it may be the most effective legal prohormone/steroid product on the market regardless of delivery method, and it is hands down the most effective oral product. On the other hand, most users report a wealth of side effects, and this compound is not to be taken lightly. It does not have a long history of use or a well-established safety profile, and proper precautions should be taken.
The profile of methyl 1-test is similar to that of 1-test Ė it does not convert to estrogen, and it is highly anabolic and moderately androgenic (less than 1-test). When compared to orally administered methyltestosterone, methyl 1-test is 910-1600% as anabolic and 100-220% as androgenic.
The side effects reported by users of methyl 1-test are many and individual reactions vary considerably. The most commonly reported side effect is lethargy, which can range from mild to severe. Other common side effects include increased blood pressure, bloating, joint pains, cramps, mild headaches, insomnia, aggressiveness, and irritability. Many users also find that methyl 1-test decreases appetite, which can be harmful or beneficial depending on one's goals. These side effects can be reduced by lowering dosage or taking smaller doses more frequently. Combining it with another androgen (such as 4-AD) may also help, but feedback on this is limited.
Another concern with methyl 1-test (and methylated steroids in general) is hepatotoxicity. Although this tends to be exaggerated, it is still prudent to take certain precautions. First and foremost, other substances that are toxic to the liver (such as alcohol) should be avoided to avoid placing extra stress on the liver. If methyl 1-test is stacked, it would be best to stack it with something other than an oral steroid/prohormone, such as a transdermal. Milk thistle, alpha lipoic acid, and N-acetyl-cysteine are commonly recommended to help protect the liver. For further information on 17aa steroids and hepatotoxicity, see the following article:
Hepatotoxicity: Fact or Fiction, by Roy Harper
When taking methyl 1-test, it is best to start out with at least a week at a dose of 5-10 mg to see how one reacts. Many users find this range to be effective, while others feel the ideal amount is 20-40 mg. It comes down to the experience, goals, and individual reaction. Many find a lower dose to be just as effective as a higher one, but with less side effects. With a compound such as this, it is generally best to err on the side of caution, especially for those that are less experienced with steroids. Most seem to find their ideal dose to be in the 10-30 mg range. Cycle length should be kept short, in the range of 1-4 weeks. Finally, it is especially important to take adequate time off after each cycle with this substance to allow the body to recover.
(Article Credit: http://www.1fast400.com/?ingredients_id=38 )
1fast400 - http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=901
LegalGear - http://www.legalgear.com/products_m1t.htm
I was planning on using Legalgears, I know its expensive, but I read that it contains a liver protectant? Is this true?
For a first timer like myself, this is what my cycle may look like (please feel free to comment)
Week 1: M1T 10mg/ED - (Mourning/Night) Milk Thistle
Week 2: Same
Week 3: Nolva 40mg/ED - 6-oxo 400mg/ED -Milk thistle
Week 4: Nolva 20mg/ED- 6-oxo 200mg/ED - Milk thistle
Week 5: (Optional maybe if I run 20mg of M1T instead of 10mg) Same as above.
Rinse and repeat.
Because M1T shuts you down pretty hard, it is recommended, or necessary to run a post cycle therapy (pct). It is commonly believed that nothing but Nolvadex should be taken for this, as it is strong enough to combat M1T. But, these items are recommended throughout this board and others.
Milk thistle: http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=45
- I've read that you can run 6-oxo with Nolvadex, but Im not fully sure so perhaps someone can comment on that?
-I've also heard that it is ok to take milk thistle while running M1t and during post cycle therapy (pct), anyone have any comment on that?
-PLEASE don't take this post as and end all to M1T knowledge. I admit I am just researching here, and putting all the knowledge in one thread, PLEASE add to this!
Thanks for the read guys.
Last edited by r3ver3nd; 04-07-2004 at 08:07 PM.
a one week cycle. you must be kidding. as with any hormone anything below a 6 week cycle is selling your self short. this is a short cycle as well. would you do enan for a week? Winstrol (winny) for a week or even 2 weeks. no!! I took m1t at 25mg/d for four weeks by itself. i wanted to know if this stuff was legit. it is very potent. strength and weight gains were more than obvious. the sides were a bit much for me though. so i stopped administration. if i had continued for an 8 week cycle then i would have gotten the full affect. I needed to cut dose down to 15mg/d and would have been ok prolly. I did it as an experiment to test its effectiveness. i know guys taking 50mg/d with little sides and great gains. some are more subsetible to sides than others. my .02
Two week cycles are the shortest you can go really. I've been advised to either go 2 weeks or 8+, anything in between and I would lose too much of my gains to make it worth it.
2 on/2-3 off ---> 2 on/2-3 off etc AT LEAST.
Gotcha, I heard from another souce that if using 6-oxo for PCT.
Week 1: 6-oxo at 400
Week 2: 300
Week 3: 300
Those are daily btw.
For nolva PCT
Week 1: 40mg / ED
Week 2: 20
Week 3: 20
One question I have is, can you run 6-oxo and Nolva at the same time, and have it be beneficial? Or is it needed?
I really wanna keep my liver/libido/test levels cause im 19 and I wanna have a sex drive when im 21.
Why bother with Nolva and or 6-oxo when M1t doesn't convert to estrogen?
There is no point, especially if you plan to run another M1T cycle 2 weeks later.
So...post cycle from protein factory?
-- an excellent read about prohormones, I suggest everyone read this.
- Rep Power
Its really, really, really worth the read.
What do you guys think of this one for post cycle therapy (pct) of M1T. Would this be sufficient to cover all needs of a Post-Cycle ?
Serving Size 3 Capsules (once per day)
Servings per Container 30
Milk Thistle:80%Silymarin 100mgs
Epimedium 500 mgs
N-Acetyl Cysteine 50 mgs
Pirkoliv (Ayurvedic herb) 100 mgs
r-ALA 10 mgs
Lecithin (containing Phosphatidyl Choline) 250 mgs
Maca 500 mgs
Calcium D-Glucarate 25 mgs
5, 7 Dihydroxyflavone 500 mgs
Bioperine 5 mgs
Cindium Monnieri 50 mgs
Zinc Aspartate 15 mgs
Arginine 250 mgs
- Rep Power
When you guy's talk about nolva dosages what does ED mean? If some one couls tell me how much to order for a post cycle therapy (pct) that would be great. Thanks.
Last edited by Wes; 05-11-2004 at 08:57 PM.
- Rep Power
and is nolva ever a pill form or is it always a liquid?
- Rep Power
ED = Every Day
Does anyone know if M1T has any effect on hairloss?
- Rep Power
I'm 17, would I get any benefit from a pro hormone
Yes, but, you are risking closing your growth plates, meaning you could potentially be stunting your growth.
And if you take these prohormones now before you meet your natural limit, or have been training for awhile (a couple of years).
Im 19, and have been training since I was 13, and seriously since I was 16. And I dont think im ready for them, or steroids yet. So take my advice bro.
- Rep Power
I read as long as u only stay on the m1t for 4 weeks u wont really shut ur self down and it will be easy to recover. I also herd this from rich gaspari my self, (met him at a show over the weekend) who has a company that makes m1t along with other pro hormones.
I am plaining on running m1t and methyl-D be gaspari nutrition for 4 weeks while I am dieting. the methyl-D is supposed to help keep u lean and not retain to much water.
for post cycle therapy (pct) I am plaining on using protein factories "post cycle" and maybe "unleashed" for 4 weeks along with 2 weeks of clomid I have lying around just to be safe. the clomid dosing I was plaining on doing was:
day 1 - 150-200mg
rest of week 1 - 100mg ED
week 2 - 50mg ED
I think this should be a good way to run the m1t with out shutting ur self down to hard and also a fast recovery with little lose in gains. when I start it I will keep u guys posted on how it goes.
if any 1 has any cements or any input please feel free to tell me or PM me what u think. I want to make sure this is the best way to run it.
- Rep Power
Has anyone heard of M1-T Plus. It has Milk Thistle, Hawthorne Berry, and Licorce Root added in. Would this be a better way to go than just M1T or is it just a waste to spend the extra 15 dollars? Also...what is the difference between M1D and M1T...which one is better?
- Rep Power
also where can I find clomid and nova?
- Rep Power
Bump for an answer to this.
Originally Posted by pdouble15
- Rep Power
I wrote a FAQ a couple months ago about M1T - original version here - http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/ph...ic.php?t=21950
If you would like to see anything added/edited let me know.
Read the Prohormone FAQ HERE first.
1. What is methyl-1testosterone?
Well, the simple answer is that it is 1-testosterone with a 17aa methylation. To go more in depth, I will explain what 1-testosterone is.
1-testosterone is a bit of a misnomer, in that, it isnít directly related to testosterone; while they share similar characteristics chemically speaking, 1-testosterone is more closely related to boldenone (equipoise). In fact, 1-testosterone is the 5-alpha reduced version of boldenone (the same thing that turns testosterone into DHT - causing prostate and hair loss issues, among other androgenic side effects.) However, boldenone isnít as androgenic as testosterone, so its 5alpha-reduced version isnít as androgenic as dht, though it does seem to be more active than dht. Technically, 1-testosterone is really dihydroboldenone (dhb). This makes it very similar to primobolan and stenbolone, in that both primobolan and stenbolone are DHB with a 1-methyl and 2-methyl group attached, to make it more orally bioavailable.
2. Ok, so 1-test is really dhb, so what about m1t?
Well, when you add a 17alpha-alkylation to boldenone, you get the popular steroid dianabol (methandrostenolone). So adding the 17aa to 1-testosterone would make m1t the 5alpha reduced version of dbol, which is actually more potent and active than dbol itself. Since dbol does not bind well to the 5alpha reductase enzyme, there is a rather small amount of dbol converted into m1t.
3. Does m1t convert into estrogen?
No, the fact that it is 5alpha reduced prevents this.
4. So that means I can't get gyno from m1t.
No, gyno is a rather common side effect of m1t, while the 5alpha reduction should prevent the aromatization into estrogen; no studies have shown this to be the case. It is more likely that m1t gyno is progesterone or prolactin induced. Nolvadex should still help prevent/alleviate any gyno symptoms. Supplementation with vitamin B6 @ 300mg a day may also prove useful.
5. Will m1t make my hair fall out?
It can - m1t is very androgenic, which can lead to many androgenic side effects such as acceleration of male pattern baldness, benign prostate hypertrophy, acne, and aggression. Finasteride (propecia) would have no effect on this; the only solution would to use a topical agent such as spironolactone, minoxodil, azelaic acid, or nizoral shampoo.
6. Are there any other side effects?
Yes, many people report bad bloating from m1t - the cause is unknown, but I could speculate that it is due to progesteronic activity. Many others report moderate to severe back cramping/tightness. Supplementation with taurine and potassium can help alleviate this side effect. Shut down of the HPTA is severe with m1t, so using testosterone or 4ad along with m1t would be advisable to prevent loss of libido. HCG would also be recommended during the cycle to prevent testicular atrophy. Lethargy is another side effect of m1t, the cause of this is unknown, but it is often reported. High blood pressure is one other major side effect of m1t. The increase in bp often causes headaches. Supplementation with hawthorn berry, garlic and/or celery extract should help alleviate some of these sides. M1t is 17alpha-alkylated, making it very harsh on the liver, so ideally your liver values should be checked before, during and after the cycle. Supplementation with alpha lipoic acid and milk thistle can help prevent liver damage. Other methylated substances SHOULD NOT be taken concurrently with m1t.
7. This stuff sounds nasty, why would anyone take it?
Well, because it is a very potent mass builder. It is without a doubt the most potent legal mass builder out there. So some people will risk the sides, to get big.
8. Is 6oxo enough for post cycle therapy (pct)?
No, you should post cycle therapy (pct) with nolva or clomid. 6oxo simply wonít cut it.
9. How do I cycle this stuff?
Well, it is recommended you run some form of compound that will convert to testosterone or testosterone itself. Here is the most common m1t stack:
Weeks 1-2 10mg m1t, 400-600mg 4ad (transdermally) (1500mg orally) a day
weeks 3-4 400-600mg 4ad (transdermally) (1500mg orally) a day * Note, some people run post cycle therapy (pct) during these weeks, but it is likely not a good idea, since you wont have time to fully recover, and will just be shut down again soon.
Weeks 5-6 10mg m1t, 400-600mg 4ad (transdermally) (1500mg orally) a day
pct - nolva 40/40/20/20 (4 weeks) or clomid (3 weeks) 300 day one, 100 10 days, 50 10 days.
10. What is the half life of m1t?
Well, the active life is speculated to be around 12 hours. Though, I believe it to be at least 48 hours. There have been no tests to my knowledge to confirm or deny one way or the other, but from personal experience, m1t seems to last a couple days after your last dosage. Also, one could speculate that since m1t is a dbol derivative, its active life would be similar Ė around 9 hours or so. So this is definitely up in the air.
11.Will I lose all my gains after a cycle?
Not if you do proper post cycle therapy (pct) and continue to train and eat properly after your cycle. Though, you will probably lose a few pounds of water after your cycle, this is expected.
12. What are the reccomended dosages?
Most people should start off with 10mg a day. Listen to your body and adjust the dosages as you see fit. The dosage should never exceed 20mg a day, unless liver values are closely monitored. Dosages of 40mg are not unheard of, but not recommended.
13. How long can I run m1t?
Most people prefer the 2on/2off/2on routine, but you could run it for 4 weeks straight. It should not be taken for more than 6 weeks straight.
14. How much can I gain on m1t?
If your diet and workout is in check, you could gain up to 20lbs in 4 weeks. The results will vary, but 10-20lbs is the most common. Keep in mind that some of this weight is likely water, and will probably be lost in post cycle therapy (pct) Ė the lean gains should be kept though.
15. Can I run m1t with my cutting cycle?
You can Ė though m1t builds mass very well and quickly, so it is better suited for bulking.
- Rep Power
Thanx. Lots of help.
Originally Posted by RRAdam
- Rep Power
thanks for the great info,saved me a lot of time.
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