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  1. #1
    I am banned! Drveejay11's Avatar
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    Talking Oh GOD...ANOTHER ALA thread!
    I enjoyed reading this perspective on ALA so I'm passing it along.....

    http://www.avantlabs.com/page.php?pageID=179&issueID=16

  2. #2
    Almost Natural Batman's Avatar
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    Interesting read. Well done bro.

  3. #3
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    It's fun to read. I wasn't impressed with the conclusions of it, mainly because they didn't answer any of the questions that they've raised here and in the past. That being if ALA is a good idea for a body builder to use. They only show that it's good at changing your blood glucose levels and not much more. Fonz did that a year ago.
    I don't know why but I kind of expected more. Probably because they been hyping this article for months. They were talking about it like they had discovered why people become insulin resistant in the first place as well as what to do about it. They did neither.
    It's also too bad they didn't use more of the first study they referenced by Dr Packer. Because the Packer study gives a very good explanation of why the R+ Lipoic in Glucorell R is a better choice. But then that wouldn't have served their purpose, their goal was to prove that racemate is just as good. Which of course they didn't do either.

  4. #4
    I am banned! Drveejay11's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ulter
    It's fun to read. I wasn't impressed with the conclusions of it, mainly because they didn't answer any of the questions that they've raised here and in the past. That being if ALA is a good idea for a body builder to use.
    But STILL....all in all it adds more credence to the ALA insulin-sensivity- increasing efficacy argument; albeit racemate was the subject given merit to.

    After ~ 1 year of personal use......I am still not OVERLY impressed with eirher rALA or ALA. I mainly use it for its potent anti-ox and liver detox potential.

    That being said.....I do NOT discount the supplement's ability to cause a MILD advantage when consuming carbs; shifting lipogenisis the other way. However, I am NOT in accord with the over-inflation and exagerration regarding claims about its ability to improve glucose intolerance to such a substantial degree. It's absurd that it's essentially being compared to Avandia (a Diabetic medication designed/created solely for incresining slin sensivity).
    Last edited by Drveejay11; 12-21-2003 at 09:45 AM.

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  6. #6
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    To kill of Laynes attempt at actually doing something original:

    (Btw I am currently working on a new delivery system for R-ALA that shows amazing promise)

    This is the FAR more complicated glucometric Analysis project that puts Laynes to shame.

    Glucometric analysis of R-ALA/ALA/CLA/GLA/AlCar

    Glucometric analysis of various OTC glucose utilization and insulin enhancing supplements. By Fonz.

    In this study, that will be divided into part I and II, I will measure the Blood Glucose and temperature response to a meal with different supplements(5). In Part I, they will be used and tested independently. In Part II, I will explain how they can be used synergistically with one another and the numerous benefits the stack offers.

    The supplements used:

    1. None(Placebo)
    2. CLA(Vitamin Shoppe)
    3. GLA(Vitamin Shoppe)
    4. R-ALA(Anabolic Fitness)
    5. ALA (Kilosports)
    6. Acetyl-L-Carnitine(Vitamin Shoppe)

    Blood Glucose monitors used:

    Principal: CVS Prestige Smart system. Serial Number: 6429796
    Back-up: Glucotrend 2. Serial Number: GH022114809

    Every original 1st reading by the principal Blood Glucose monitor(CVS) was checked by the back-up Glucometer(Glucotrend 2) to eliminate inconsistencies. I set the bar at + or 10% of the original reading. If more or less than 10%, I repeated the specific dosaging for the supplement or combination of supplements being tested. I also measured my bodytemp to see if some of the supplements possessed thermogenic qualities.

    Thermometer: Philips SensorTouch. Accurate to +-0.1C Type: HF 37C CE 0344

    Specific Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

    Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g) (Low Fat, high carb)

    All measurements were done in the AM and/or anytime I hadnt eaten for 12hrs, as there is NO FOOD present in the stomach after 12hrs, liver glycogen is empty, and BG levels are lowest. This is the BEST time to measure blood glucose fluctuations.

    In fact, the GTT test is best performed in the AM on an empty stomach(Ask your doctor, he will verify this) (GTT=Glucose Tolerance test). Values for the blood glucose will be given according to the American system: i.e. mg/dl . This is the structure of each daily measurement.

    1. Take initial BG(Blood glucose) measurement and BodyTemp.
    2. Consume the SPECIFIC food and take the supplement in question at the specified dosage level.
    3,4,5 and 6: Measure BG(Blood Glucose) levels at the 1 hr, 2hr, 3hr, and 4hr mark..
    (Also taking bodytemp at each 1hr interval)

    Supplement #1: Placebo

    Intitial BG Measurement: 48mg/dl Temp: 37.3C (99.1F)
    (Eat Food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.2C (99F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 40mg/dl Temp: 36.8C (98.2F)
    T+3hrs measurement: 74mg/dl Temp: 37.1C (98.8F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 72mg/dl Temp: 37.2F (99F)

    Note: This clearly shows reactive hipoglycaemia(From T+1hr to T+3hrs), caused by the insulin surge of the High GI carb meal. Definately made me hungry and lethargic.

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    21 + 17.64 + 11.47 + 24 + 1 = 75.11 units squared

    Area under initial BG measurement(negative):0.64 + 0.47 = 1. 11 units squared

    Note2: Total Area: 75.11 + 1.11 = 76.22 units squared.

    Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 14.7min(5.83% Total time)

    Measurement #2 of Placebo:

    Intitial BG Measurement: 50mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    (Eat Food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 96mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 42mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    T+3hrs measurement: 78mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.2F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.7C (98.2F)

    Note: Again this clearly shows reactive hipoglycaemia(From T+1hr to T+3hrs), caused by the insulin surge of the High GI carb meal.

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    23 + 19.59 + 10.89 + 20 + 4 = 77.48 units squared

    Area under initial BG measurement horizontal line:-0.59 0.89 = -1. 43 units squared

    Note2: Total Area: 77.48 + 1.43 = 78.91 units squared.

    Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 14.3min(5.97% Total time)


    Measurement #3 of Placebo:

    Intitial BG Measurement: 61mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    (Eat Food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 112mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 51mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+3hrs measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 78mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    25.5 + 21.32 + 6.22 + 18 + 1 = 72.04 units squared

    Area under initial BG measurement horizontal line(negative):

    0.82 + 1.72 = 2.54 units squared

    Note: Total Area: 77.48 + 1.43 = 74.58 units squared.

    Note2: Again this clearly shows reactive hipoglycaemia(From T+1hr to T+3hrs), caused by the insulin surge of the High GI carb meal.

    Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 21.03min(8.76% Total time)

    Placebo Analysis:

    Positive Area Negative Area Total Area
    (In Units Squared)

    Measurement 1: 75.11 11.11 76.22

    Measurement 2: 77.48 1.43 78.91

    Measurement 3: 72.04 2.54 74.58

    Mean Area: 74.88 1.69 76.57

    Time in Negative BG(Approx):

    Measurement 1 : 14.7min(5.83%)
    Measurement 2 : 14.3min(5.97%)
    Measurement 3 : 21.03min(8.76%)

    Supplement #2: CLA (Tonalin) Vitamin Shoppe Brand.

    Dosages: 8g, 10g, 12g. (But Tonalin is 74-82% CLA by content)

    So, taking an average of 78% CLA, we get;

    Dose 112g Tonalin CLA) = 9.36g CLA
    Dose 210g Tonalin CLA)= 7.8g CLA
    Dose 38g Tonalin CLA) = 6.24g CLA

    Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

    Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

    Dose 1: 12g Tonalin CLA: 9.36g CLA by content

    Intitial BG Measurement: 48mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
    (Eat Food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 61mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 83mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+3hrs measurement: 64mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.6C(97.9F)

    Note: CLA stabilized BG levels for the 4hrs.

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    6.5 + 13 + 11 + 16 + 9.5 + 16 + 3 = 75units squared.

    Note: No reactive hypoglycaemia occurred like the placebo. CLA modulated the insulin surge from the pancreas, causing BG levels to not drop sharply...but instead they stabilized. This is how CLA works in diets and will be talked about later.

    Dose 2: 10g Tonalin CLA: 7.8g CLA by content

    Intitial BG Measurement: 72mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)
    (Eat Food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 96mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6 F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 117mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)
    T+3hrs measurement: 78mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 66mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    12 + 24 + 10.5 +19.5 + 6 + 1.5 = 73.5 units squared

    Area under initial BG measurement(negative)(Approx):

    (0.5)(6)(0.5) = 1.5 units squared

    Note: Total Area: 73.5 + 1.5 = 75 units squared.

    Note2: CLA stabilized BG readings after the high GI carb meal. But BG readings still dipped below initial BG reading after less than 4 hours.

    Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 30 min(12.5% of time)

    Dose 3: 8g Tonalin CLA: 6.24g CLA by content

    Intitial BG Measurement: 76mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    (Eat Food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 104mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 120mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+3hrs measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.6F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    14 + 28 + 8 +19.36 = 69.36 units squared

    Area under initial BG measurement(negative)(Approx):

    3 + 5 + 0.36 = 8.36 units squared

    Note: Total Area: 69.36 + 8.36 = 77.72 units squared.

    Note2: CLA stabilized BG readings after the high GI carb meal. But BG readings still dipped below initial BG reading after less than 3 hours.

    Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial): 67.2min(28% of time)

    CLA Analysis:
    (Units Squared)

    Positive Area Negative Area Total Area Negative BG Time

    Dose 1(12g) 75 0 75 0.0

    Dose 2(10g) 73.5 1.5 75 30min(12.5%)

    Dose 3(8g) 69.36 8. 36 77.72 67.2min(28%)


    As can be clearly seen, there exists a definite correlation between the amount of CLA needed per amount of carbs ingested. The 12g CLA completely stabilized BG levels after the initial spike(CLA is a fat, so it takes time to be digested and work), and they remained stable for 4 hours. The length of my BG analysis. The 10g and 8g doses stabilized BG levels for the first 3 hours. After that, BG levels dropped to below initial levels.

    Supplement #3: GLA

    Dosages: 1560mg GLA, 1300mg GLA, 1040mg GLA

    (These dosages come from 1300mg Borage Oil Gel Caps containing 260mg GLA per gel cap). They are from the VitaminShoppe.

    Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

    Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

    Dose 1: 1560mg GLA(From 7800mg Borage Oil)

    Initial BG measurement: 59mg/dl Temp: 36.5C(97.7F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 83mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 72mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
    T+3hrs Measurement: 79mg/dl Temp: 36.4C(97.5F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 73mg/dl Temp: 36.5C(97.7F)

    Note: No hypoglycaemic effect seen with this dosage of GLA included w/ high GI carb meal. BG levels spiked initially during the first hour then leveled off, and remained stable for the next 3 hours. Temperature did increase 0.6F from initial measurement to T=2hrs. This is statistically significant, and will be talked about later because GLA seems to have a slight thermogenic effect. Also, total area under blood glucose curve was smaller than placebo.

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    12 + 13 + 5.5 + 13 + 3.5 + 14 + 3 = 64 units squared

    Dose 2: 1300mg GLA(From 6500mg Borage Oil)

    Initial BG measurement: 81mg/dl Temp: 36.5C(97.7F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 117mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 101mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+3hrs Measurement: 94mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

    Area under positive BG Curve = 18 + 20 + 8 + 13 + 3.5 + 9 + 2 = 73.5 units squared

    Note: No hypoglycaemic effect seen with GLA included w/ high GI carb meal.
    Ending BG level > Initial BG level after T+4 hours. T+1hr BG Spike seen again like in GLA Dose #1.(1560mg GLA). Again, mean Temp. rose 0.5F from Initial BG temp to T=2hrs temp.

    Dose 3: 1040mg GLA(From 5200mg Borage Oil)

    Initial BG measurement: 83mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 129mg/dl Temp: 37.4C(99.5F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+3hrs Measuremen 104mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    T+4hrs Measuremen 81mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    23 + 7 + 19.5 + 7 + 7 + 2 + 11.5 = 77 units squared.

    Note: No hypoglycaemic effect seen with GLA included w/ high GI carb meal.
    Ending BG level = Initial BG level after T+4 hours. T+1hr BG Spike seen again like in GLA Dose #1.(1560mg GLA) and dose #2(1300mg GLA). BG fluctuations were more erratic in dose#3 than in dose #1 and #2. Seems that this is the smallest amount of GLA for the dosage of carbs ingested for BG levels not to go below initial. Again, mean Temp. rose 0.5F from Initial BG temp to T=1hr temp.

    GLA Analysis:
    (Units squared)

    Positive Area Max Temp increase(F) Total Area

    Dose 1(1560mg): 64 0.6F 64

    Dose 2(1300mg): 73.5 0.5F 73.5

    Dose 3(1040mg): 77 0.5F 77

    Comparison to Placebo:

    Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

    (Units Squared)

    64/76.57 = 83.58% = - 17.42% reduction in BG Area
    73.5/76.57 = 95.99% = - 4.01% reduction in BG Area
    77/76.57 = No Net Change Seen.

    Supplement #4: R-ALA

    Dosages: 200mg R-ALA, 400mg R-ALA , 600mg R-ALA.
    (From AF www.anabolicfitness.net)

    Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

    Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

    Dose 1: 200mg R-ALA

    Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 110mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    20 + 10 + 15 + 5 + 2.5 + 2.5 = 55 Units Squared

    Dose 2: 400mg R-ALA

    Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 95mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+3hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    12.5 + 10 + 7.5 + 5 = 35 Units squared

    Area under negative BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    0.5(10) = 5 Units squared

    Dose 3: 600mg R-ALA

    Initial BG measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 100mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    10 + 10 + 5 + 3.33 = 28.33 Units squared

    Area under negative BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    5 + 2.5 + 0.83 = 8.33 Units squared

    R-ALA Analysis:
    (Units squared)
    Positive Area Negative Area Total Area

    Dose 1(200mg): 55.0 0.0 55.00

    Dose 2(400mg): 35.0 5.0 40.00

    Dose 3(600mg): 28.33 8.33 36.67

    Comparison to Placebo:

    Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

    (600mg R-ALA)(36.67 Units Squared) 36.67/76.57 = (1-47.89%) = 52.11% reduction

    (400mg R-ALA)(40.00 Units Squared) 40.0/76.57 = (1-52.24%) = 47.76% reduction

    (200mg R-ALA)(55.00 Units Squared) 55.0/76.57 = (1-71.83%) = 28.17% reduction

    Supplement #5: ALA

    Dosages: 600mg ALA, 1200mg ALA , 1800mg ALA.

    (These dosages come from www.kilosports.com ALA)

    Kilosports: Lot# C07351

    Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

    Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

    Dose 1: 600mg ALA

    Initial BG measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 100mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    17.5 + 22.5 + 17.5 = 57.5 Units Squared

    Dose 2: 1200mg ALA

    Initial BG measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+3hrs Measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    15 + 10 + 10 + 5 + 2.5 + 2.5 = 45 Units Squared

    Dose 3: 1800mg ALA

    Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 95mg/dl Temp: 36.8C (98.2F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+3hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    12.5 + 10 + 7.5 + 5 = 35 Units Squared

    Area under negative BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    (0.5)(10) = 5.0 Units Squared

    ALA Analysis:
    (Units squared)
    Positive Area Negative Area Total Area

    Dose 1(600mg): 57.5 0.0 55.00

    Dose 2(1200mg) 45.0 0.0 45.00

    Dose 3(1800mg): 35.0 5.0 40.00

    Comparison to Placebo:

    Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

    (1800mg ALA)(40.00 Units Squared) 40.00/76.57 = (1-52.24%) = 47.76% reduction

    (1200mg ALA)(45.00 Units Squared) 45.00/76.57 = (1- 58.77%) = 41.23% reduction

    (600mg ALA)(57.50 Units Squared) 57.50/76.57 = (1- 75.09%) = 24.91% reduction


    Supplement #6: Acety-L-Carnitine

    Dosages: 1000mg AlCar, 2000mg ALCar , 3000mg ALCar

    Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

    Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

    Dose 1: 1000mg Acetyl-L-Carnitine

    Initial BG measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
    T+3hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    15 + 20 + 25 + 15 = 75.0 Units Squared

    Dose 2: 2000mg Acetyl-L-Carnitine

    Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 100mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
    T+3hrs Measurement: 85mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    15 + 25 + 17.5 + 10 = 67.5 Units Squared

    Dose 3: 3000mg Acetyl-L-Carnitine

    Initial BG measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
    (Eat food as described above)

    T+1hr Measurement: 95mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
    T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.2C(99.0F)
    T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
    T+4hrs Measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

    Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

    15 + 25 + 12.5 + 12.5 = 65.0 Units Squared

    ALCar Analysis:
    (Units squared)
    Positive Area Negative Area Total Area

    Dose 1(1000mg): 75.0 0.0 75.00

    Dose 2(2000mg): 67.5 0.0 67.50

    Dose 3(3000mg): 65.0 0.0 65.00

    Comparison to Placebo:

    Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

    (3000mg ALCar)(65.00 Units Squared) 65.00/76.57 =(1-84.89%) = 15.11% reduction

    (2000mg ALCar)(67.50 Units Squared) 67.50/76.57 =(1-88.15%) = 11.85% reduction

    (1000mg ALCar)(75.00 Units Squared) 75.00/76.57 =(1-97.95%) = 2.05% reduction


    Conclusions:

    Mechanisms via how you can manipulate nutrient partitioning....i.e. Insulin levels/Blood Glucose levels.

    a)Non-insulin mediated glucose partitioning(Or if you prefer disposal). These types of supplements(For example R-ALA and Acetyl-L-Carnitine) work INDEPENDENT of insulin. They have little effect on its release or degradation in the bloodstream. What they do, is increase translocation of intra-cellular Glut-4s(Glucose Transporters) to the outside of the cellular membrane albeit in the adipocytes(fat cells) and miocytes(muscle cells). The net result, is that more glucose is diverted to the miocytes, and less to the adipocytes. In hypocaloric diets, this means, more fat-loss, and better muscle preservation. In hypercaloric diets, this means more muscle gain, and less fat gain.
    Insulin mediated glucose partitioning(or disposal). These types of supplements actually influence AA transport b/c they work through insulin signalling pathways. CLA is a good example. CLA works by increasing AA and glucose transport into the muscle cells via insulin stimulated pathways, and therefore in hypocaloric diets acts as an anti-catabolic. CLA
    also keeps blood glucose levels more stable. In essence preventing preventing high blood glucose or hypoglycaemia after a carb meal.
    c)Non-stimulating thermogenics. GLA. In order to explain a bit how GLA works, I will briefly explain what prostaglandins are.

    Series 1 Prostaglandins = Good(PgF2A)( Anabolic) They are incredibly thermogenic and help build muscle.
    Series 2 Prostaglandins = Bad(PgE2)(Catabolic) They break down protein.
    Series 1 and 2 produced by your cells always at a 1:1 ratio.
    Series 3 Prostaglandins block the production of series 2.
    Series 1 and 2 Prostaglandins are made from the essential fatty acid Linoleic Acid.
    Linoleic Acid = Omega-6 Fatty Acid .
    Linolenic Acid(Alpha-linolenic acid) is an Omega-3 fatty Acid Series 3 Prostaglandins are derived from this acid.
    GLA = Omega-6 Fatty Acid (Gamma-Linolenic Acid) This BLOCKS series 2 Prostaglandins.
    By Blocking series 2 prostaglandins, GLA shifts the normal 1:1 Prostaglandin ratio to the PgF2A(Anabolic) side. In essence, promoting thermogenesis. As can be shown in my study of GLA. Its anabolic effects were not measured(As this is also a direct consequence of a positive PgF2A environment) .

    These explanations for the different workings of each substance can be seen to be true when one compares each to the Placebo measurements.


    Comparison to Placebo(GLA):

    Placebo:

    Mean Area(Average): 74.88 units squared
    Negative Area: 1.69 units squared
    Total Area: 76.57 units squared

    GLA:

    Dose 1(1040mg): Area: 77.00 Units squared
    Dose 2(1300mg): Area: 73.50 Units squared
    Dose 3(1560mg): Area: 64.00 Units squared

    1560mg GLA = 64 Units squared.
    Placebo total Area average: 76.57 Units squared

    Reduction in Total Area: ((76.57 64)/ 76.57) = 16.42% reduction
    Temp increase: +0.6F

    GLA caused a reduction in the area under the blood glucose curve by diverting some of the calories ingested into heat energy i.e. increasing the meals thermogenic value.

    Comparison to Placebo(CLA):

    Placebo:

    Mean Area(Average): 74.88 units squared
    Negative Area: 1.69 units squared
    Total Area: 76.57 units squared

    CLA:

    Dose 1(12g): Area: 75.00 Units squared
    Dose 2(10g): Area: 75.00 Units squared(1.5 negative)
    Dose 3(8g): Area: 77.72 Units squared(8.36 negative)

    Comparison to Placebo(R-ALA):

    Placebo:

    Mean Area(Average): 74.88 units squared
    Negative Area: 1.69 units squared
    Total Area: 76.57 units squared

    R-ALA

    Dose 1(200mg): 55.00 Units Squared
    Dose 2(400mg): 40.00 Units Squared(5.00 Negative)
    Dose 3(600mg): 36.67 Units Squared(8.33 Negative)

    Comparison to Placebo(ALA):

    Placebo:

    Mean Area(Average): 74.88 units squared
    Negative Area: 1.69 units squared
    Total Area: 76.57 units squared

    ALA

    Dose 1 (600mg): 57.50 Units Squared
    Dose 2(1200mg): 45.00 Units Squared
    Dose 3(1800mg): 40.00 Units Squared(5.00 Negative)

    Both ALA and R-ALA decreased the area under the blood glucose curve significantly. This is due to an increase in both glucose uptake and glucose oxidation.

    Comparison to Placebo(Acetyl-L-Carnitine):

    Placebo:

    Mean Area(Average): 74.88 units squared
    Negative Area: 1.69 units squared
    Total Area: 76.57 units squared

    Acetyl-L-Carnitine

    Dose 1 (1000mg): 75.00 Units Squared
    Dose 2 (2000mg): 67.50 Units Squared
    Dose 3 (3000mg): 65.00 Units Squared

    Acetyl-L-Carnitine caused a moderate reduction in the area under the blood glucose curve.

    Fonz

  7. #7
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    And my reply to his study: (Where nothing original or noteworthy was done)

    My comment on laynes article:

    Simplistic study, but well performed...but you needed to go more in depth. This has been done before.

    1. The glucose up-take caused by the translocation of the glut-4s from the inside of the miocytes to the outside of the miocytes soaks up a certain amount of blood glucose from the bloodstream, which when complexed with 4g of water and potassium forms glycogen, which is then stored in the muscles. To be used for energy later.

    Now, we all know that R-ALA and racemic ALA up-regulate both the Glut-4s for the adipocytes and the the miocytes.

    2. The glucose up-take caused by the translocation of the glut-4s from the inside of the adipocytes to the outside of the adipocytes soak up a certain amount of blood glucose from the bloodstream, from which then they form triglycerides which are stored in the fat cells(adipocytes).

    Obviously, this whole glucose-glycogen conversion and the glucose-triglyceride conversion is inefficient, as are all bio-chemical processes in general, but very much interrelated.

    3. (And what is the only thing that can be masured). Part of the glucose present in the blood stream is oxidized(or its up-take and then eliminated through excretion.) Lets name this number Z

    My conclusions:

    - You can only measure the glucose excreted(Z) as a factor of the total glucose consumed per meal. But you have to remain stationary for this to work. Moving around increases glucose oxidation and the math behind the calaculations becomes truly horrid.

    Other than that there is no way to measure actual muscle glycogen(glycogen = 4g water + glucose + potassium complexed) levels pre- and post-ALA/R-ALA, and neither is there a way to measure actual triglyceride level loss through their eventual descomposition into ketones and glycerol, which is then converted into glucose, which can then be excreted by the ALA/R-ALA oxidative excretive pathway that operates independent of the miocytes and adipocytes.

    Im currently writting(59% done) a massive mathematical paper on blood plasma dynamics involving blood glucose changes in relation to R-ALA7ALA plasma levels and their effectiveness and their subsequent effects on the miocytes, adipocytes, and glucose excretion after a pre-determined meal. However, it is is still far too complicated right now to publish it, because nobody without a math or bio-chem degree would ever understand it, so Im trying to make it easier to unbderstand for everybody. But you willl definately be impressed, it will increase the effectiveness of R-ALA/ALA dosing by at least 2/3-fold.

    Fonz

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    I did not understand any of what you just said, Fonz.

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    Originally posted by rubberduckyo
    I did not understand any of what you just said, Fonz.
    Translation: It equals some cool stuff.

    Hurry with that paper!!!!!!

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by miked512
    Translation: It equals some cool stuff.

    Hurry with that paper!!!!!!
    Thanks, babe!

    English rocks!

  11. #11
    Angry Old Curmudgeon Mr. dB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Fonz
    (Btw I am currently working on a new delivery system for R-ALA that shows amazing promise)

    A Fina pellet gun?

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Mr. dB
    A Fina pellet gun?
    A sub-cutaneous delivery device.

    Takers? Anyone?

  13. #13
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    Somewhat related:

    WHere do you guys buy your R-ALA?
    Walmart doesn't have it... not a common suppliment?

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