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  1. #1
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    Does creatine cause bloating, water retention?
    Do people who take creatine look a lil more bloated than normal? I would like to take it, but I don't want the bloated look. What are your guys experience with creatine?

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    10 gr on training day, and 5 gr on days off.

    5gr on wake up ( 15min before eat with juice), and 5 gr half an hour before training.

    On days off 5gr ( 15min before eat with juice).

    so the day of you not training you let the retention goes because you only take 5gr.

    Many guys will teling you to take over rated and expensive product to give a little money to the sponsers and advertising, but all creatine on the market do a good job exept alkail ( bicarbonate creatine buffer). cheers.

  3. #3
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    Get Creatine Ethyl Ester

    Take 3g/day

    No Bloat

  4. #4
    Eze
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    Quote Originally Posted by proslam
    10 gr on training day, and 5 gr on days off.

    5gr on wake up ( 15min before eat with juice), and 5 gr half an hour before training.

    On days off 5gr ( 15min before eat with juice).

    so the day of you not training you let the retention goes because you only take 5gr.

    Many guys will teling you to take over rated and expensive product to give a little money to the sponsers and advertising, but all creatine on the market do a good job exept alkail ( bicarbonate creatine buffer). cheers.
    Not all creatines are equal and you are making things way too complicated for the guy.
    And which over rated and expensive creatine products are suggested by members of this board.
    I think there is a strong concensus that CEE is the best creatine on the market and you can get it for dirt cheap from many place on the interent. It happens that just about every board sponsor carries it as well and it is cheaper than any price you will be quoted in a retail store.

  5. #5
    300lbs of Heavenly Joy huskyguy's Avatar
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    The bloating is often caused by sugars in the creatine product, generally creatine helps protect my joints by allowing my muscles to fill out. Generally I find that creatine makes a small difference, most diets high in proteins from meats will give you a lot of creatine anyways.

  6. #6
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    Thanks guys for the recommendations. I plan on ordering some tonight along with a another tub of protein and fish oil. I've been working out since March and have seen great improvements and I hope this adds a little kick I need.

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    PureCEE is the highest quality and best presentation of creatine ethyl ester available. Every batch is tested by chromadex (the only lab with a verified test) and coated caplets that maintain the integrity of this very hygroscopic material.

  8. #8
    Senior Member right pumped's Avatar
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    i have been using purple k creatine, no bloat

  9. #9
    Eze
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    I got my CEE for $6.99/100 grams from one of the board sponsors. And if you are so worried about the taste a couple extra dollars can buy a caping machine and some caps and you can cap your own powder. This IMO is the way to go if you are on a budget. The capping machine will last you a life time and can be used for all sorts of supps.

  10. #10
    GET BIG evansss's Avatar
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    i might get yelled at for thisbut i thought the whole concept of creatine was atp adp (blah blah never paid attention in bio) and in effect allowing your muscles to be more hyrdrated...im considering getting some cee but i too felt bloated after taking the trax creatine 2 years ago...maybeit was all in my head.

  11. #11
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    http://www.trueprotein.com/Product_D...id=25&pid=2369

    Creatine (CR) is a naturally occurring substance, produced in our bodies in the liver from the amino acids L-Arginine, L-Glycine and L-Methionine46. Daily turnover of creatine occurs at a rate of ~2g/day via non-enzymatic, irreversible degradation of creatine and creatine phosphate to creatinine47. Creatinine freely diffuses out of the cell and is easily filtered by the healthy kidney18. This loss is normally replaced by endogenous CR synthesis, as well as exogenous (dietary) sources of creatine such as meat16. However, vegetarians typically have lower levels of creatine in serum and muscle9, and experience a greater elevation in muscle CR following dietary supplementation17.



    Due in part to its relatively large mass, over 95% of the body’s store of creatine is found in skeletal muscle (~120g in a 70kg male46), where it participates in energetic processes to restore ATP and shuttle high energy phosphate in the form of CR phosphate from the mitochondria to the myofibrillar cross-bridges to generate muscular contractile force5.



    Because CR is a charged molecule47 it must normally be transported across cell membranes by a CR transport protein, including that of the gut (for oral absorption) and skeletal muscle (for uptake into the cell)15, 29, 35, 40. Following a period of CR loading, all of a 5g daily dose of CR monohydrate is recoverable in the urine as CR or its degradative by-product creatinine44, suggesting that in most individuals, absorption of creatine monohydrate is complete, at least at these doses.



    However, anecdotal reports of gastric distress6 suggest that some individuals may have difficulty absorbing CR in the amounts provided by a CR supplement. To aid in trans-membrane movement, ethyl esterification (akin to the acetylation of salicylic acid to make aspirin, a.k.a. acetylsalycylic acid) of drugs or other substances is commonly employed to bypass normal means of uptake, enhance bioavailability and reduce side effects4. Although scientific investigation of the pharmacokinetics CR ethyl ester (CEE) is lacking, anecdotal reports of increased body mass without gastric discomfort are consistent with the abrupt weight gain noted in numerous research studies of CR monohydrate supplementation1, 2, 14, 28, 39, 41, 43, 49, suggesting the CEE does indeed make its way to skeletal muscle.



    The ergogenic and anabolic effects of CR have been under investigation for m ore than a decade, with widely inconsistent results26. However, taken as a whole the large body of literature suggests that supplemental CR can have ergogenic effects, especially during brief duration, high intensity exercise (such as resistance exercise) and in individuals who have low muscle CR levels, such as vegetarians, and those with abnormalities of CR metabolism38, 42, 43. Creatine may also have an anti-inflammatory action22, 37, aid in nerve re-generation30 have an anabolic or anti-catabolic effect on skeletal muscle20, 21, 36, 48, although the literature is not consistent in this regard11, 31, and/or prevent performance decrements during periods of high intensity training45.



    By aiding in muscular performance (training stimulus), affecting recovery via altering muscle protein metabolism or nerve function, CR would hypothetically enhance adaptation to exercise training, including the muscular growth adaptation to resistance training. The degree to which this occurs is likely dependent upon the degree to which supplemental CR increases muscle CR as well as body mass during the initial period of CR supplementation7, 23.



    Supplement Use

    Individuals should consult with their physician before beginning CEE supplementation, especially those with pre-existing renal disease.

    Adverse medical side effects of short and long-term CR supplementation are generally absent in the scientific literature6, 12, 26, 27, 32-34, although individual cases of those experiencing reversable renal dysfunction in association with CR supplementation have been reported24.



    CR can be taken in doses of 2-5g / day to elevate or maintain elevated muscle creatine levels3, 19, 44. Consuming CR as CEE may even lower the amount of CR needed for this effect.



    CR supplementation improves blood lipid profile by elevating HDL concentration and reducing total cholesterol, LDL, and blood triglyceride levels10, 25. CEE could be taken with with Alpha-lipoic acid to enhance its uptake8, as well as with carbohydrate to enhance glycogen synthesis13. Taking CEE, along with Vitamin C, may reduce muscle soreness or inflammation22, 37. CEE could also be used in a post-workout, weight gainer or carb-up drink along alpha-lipoic acid, arginine (to optimize nutrient delivery), waxy maize and/or other carbohydrate source, and a high quality protein or protein blend.



    References



    1. Balsom, P. D., B. Ekblom, K. Söderlund, and E. Hultman. Creatine supplementation and dynamic high-intensity intermittent exercise. Scand. J. Med. Sci. Sports. 3:143-149, 1993.

    2. Balsom, P. D., S. D. Harridge, K. Söderlund, B. Sjödin, and B. Ekblom. Creatine supplementation per se does not enhance endurance exercise performance. Acta Physiol Scand. 149:521-523, 1993.

    3. Balsom, P. D., K. Söderlund, and B. Ekblom. Creatine in humans with special reference to creatine supplementation. Sports Med. 18:268-280, 1994.

    4. Beaumont, K., R. Webster, I. Gardner, and K. Dack. Design of ester prodrugs to enhance oral absorption of poorly permeable compounds: challenges to the discovery scientist. Curr Drug Metab. 4:461-485, 2003.

    5. Bessman, S. P. and F. Savabi. The role of the phosphcreatine energy shuttle in exercise and muscle hypertrophy. In: Proceedings of the 7th International Biochemistry of Exercise Conference held on June 1-4, 1988 in London, Ontario, Canada. A. W. Taylor (Ed.) Champaign,IL: Human Kinetics Publishers, 1990, pp. 167-178.

    6. Bizzarini, E. and L. De Angelis. Is the use of oral creatine supplementation safe? J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 44:411-416, 2004.

    7. Burke, D. G., P. D. Chilibeck, G. Parise, D. G. Candow, D. Mahoney, and M. Tarnopolsky. Effect of creatine and weight training on muscle creatine and performance in vegetarians. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 35:1946-1955, 2003.

    8. Burke, D. G., P. D. Chilibeck, G. Parise, M. A. Tarnopolsky, and D. G. Candow. Effect of alpha-lipoic acid combined with creatine monohydrate on human skeletal muscle creatine and phosphagen concentration. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 13:294-302, 2003.

    9. Delanghe, J., J. P. De Slypere, M. De Buyzere, J. Robbrecht, R. Wieme, and A. Vermeulen. Normal reference values for creatine, creatinine, and carnitine are lower in vegetarians. Clin Chem. 35:1802-1803, 1989.

    10. Earnest, C. P., A. L. Almada, and T. L. Mitchell. High-performance capillary electrophoresis-pure creatine monohydrate reduces blood lipids in men and women. Clin. Sci.(Colch). 91:113-118, 1996.

    11. Fry, D. M. and M. F. Morales. A reexamination of the effects of creatine on muscle protein synthesis in tissue culture. J Cell Biol. 84:294-297, 1980.

    12. Graham, A. S. and R. C. Hatton. Creatine: a review of efficacy and safety. J Am Pharm Assoc (Wash). 39:803-810; quiz 875-807, 1999.

    13. Green, A. L., D. A. Sewell, L. Simpson, E. Hultman, I. A. Macdonald, and P. L. Greenhaff. Creatine ingestion augments muscle creatine uptake and glycogen synthesis during carbohydrate feeding in man. J. Physiol. Lond. 491:63P-64P, 1996.

    14. Greenhaff, P. L., K. Bodin, K. Söderlund, and E. Hultman. Effect of oral creatine supplementation on skeletal muscle phosphocreatine resynthesis. Am J Physiol. 266:E725-E730, 1994.

    15. Guimbal, C. and M. W. Kilimans. A Na+-dependant creatine transporter in rabbit brain, muscle, heart, and kidney. J. Biol. Chem. 268:8418-8421, 1998.

    16. Harris, R. C., J. A. Lowe, K. Warnes, and C. E. Orme. The concentration of creatine in meat, offal and commercial dog food. Research in Veterinary Science. 62:58-62, 1997.

    17. Harris, R. C., K. Söderlund, and E. Hultman. Elevation of creatine in resting and exercised muscle of normal subjects by creatine supplementation. Clin. Sci.(Colch). 83:367-374, 1992.

    18. Hoogwerf, B. J., D. C. Laine, and E. Greene. Urine C-peptide and creatinine (Jaffe method) excretion in healthy young adults on varied diets: sustained effects of varied carbohydrate, protein, and meat content. Am J Clin Nutr. 43:350-360, 1986.

    19. Hultman, E., K. Söderlund, J. A. Timmons, G. Cederblad, and P. L. Greenhaff. Muscle creatine loading in men. J. Appl. Physiol. 81:232-237, 1996.

    20. Ingwall, J. S. Creatine and the control of muscle-specific protein synthesis in cardiac and skeletal muscle. Circ. Res. 38:I115-I123, 1976.

    21. Ingwall, J. S., M. F. Morales, F. E. Stockdale, and K. Wildenthal. Creatine: a possible stimulus for skeletal and cardiac muscle hypertrophy. Recent. Adv. Stud. Cardiac. Struct. Metab. 8:467-481, 1975.

    22. Khanna, N. K. and B. R. Madan. Studies on the anti-inflammatory activity of creatine. Arch Int.Pharmacodyn.Ther. 231:340-350, 1978.

    23. Kilduff, L. P., Y. P. Pitsiladis, L. Tasker, J. Attwood, P. Hyslop, A. Dailly, I. Dickson, and S. Grant. Effects of creatine on body composition and strength gains after 4 weeks of resistance training in previously nonresistance-trained humans. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 13:504-520, 2003.

    24. Koshy, K. M., E. Griswold, and E. E. Schneeberger. Interstitial nephritis in a patient taking creatine [letter]. N Engl J Med. 340:814-815, 1999.

    25. Kreider, R. B., M. Ferreira, M. Wilson, P. Grindstaff, S. Plisk, J. Reinardy, E. Cantler, and A. L. Almada. Effects of creatine supplementation on body composition, strength, and sprint performance. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 30:73-82, 1998.

    26. Lemon, P. W. Dietary creatine supplementation and exercise performance: why inconsistent results? Can J Appl Physiol. 27:663-681, 2002.

    27. Mayhew, D. L., J. L. Mayhew, and J. S. Ware. Effects of long-term creatine supplementation on liver and kidney functions in American college football players. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 12:453-460, 2002.

    28. McNaughton, L. R., B. Dalton, and J. Tarr. The effects of creatine supplementation on high-intensity exercise performance in elite performers. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. Occup. Physiol. 78:236-240, 1998.

    29. Nash, S. R., B. Giros, S. F. Kingsmore, J. M. Rochelle, S. T. Suter, P. Gregor, M. F. Seldin, and M. G. Caron. Cloning, pharmacological characterization, and genomic localization of the human creatine transporter. Receptors Channels. 2:165-174, 1994.

    30. Ozkan, O., O. Duman, S. Haspolat, H. E. Ozgentas, M. B. Dikici, I. Gurer, H. A. Gungor, and A. Guzide Gokhan. Effect of systemic creatine monohydrate supplementation on denervated muscle during reinnervation: experimental study in the rat. J Reconstr Microsurg. 21:573-579, 2005.

    31. Parise, G., S. Mihic, D. MacLennan, K. E. Yarasheski, and M. A. Tarnopolsky. Effects of acute creatine monohydrate supplementation on leucine kinetics and mixed-muscle protein synthesis. J Appl Physiol. 91:1041-1047, 2001.

    32. Poortmans, J. R., H. Auquier, V. Renaut, A. Durussel, M. Saugy, and G. R. Brisson. Effect of short-term creatine supplementation on renal responses in men. Eur J. Appl. Physiol. 76:566-567, 1997.

    33. Poortmans, J. R. and M. Francaux. Long-term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy athletes [see comments]. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 31:1108-1110, 1999.

    34. Poortmans, J. R. and M. Francaux. Renal dysfunction accompanying oral creatine supplements [letter]. Lancet. 352:234, 1998.

    35. Proujansky, R., G. Iyer, and V. L. Funage. Cloning and characterization of a human intestinal creatine transporter. Gastroenterology. 108:A314, 1995.

    36. Rogozkin, V. A. The role of low molecular weight compounds in the regulation of skeletal muscle genome activity during exercise. Med. Sci. Sports. 8:1-4, 1976.

    37. Santos, R. V., R. A. Bassit, E. C. Caperuto, and L. F. Costa Rosa. The effect of creatine supplementation upon inflammatory and muscle soreness markers after a 30km race. Life Sci. 75:1917-1924, 2004.

    38. Sipilä, I., J. Rapola, O. Simell, and A. Vannas. Supplementary creatine as a treatment for gyrate atrophy of the choroid and retina. N Engl J Med. 304:867-870, 1981.

    39. Söderlund, K., P. D. Balsom, and B. Ekblom. Creatine supplementation and high-intensity exercise: Influence on performance and muscle metabolism. Clin. Sci.(Colch). 87:120, 1994.

    40. Sora, I., J. Richman, G. Santoro, H. Wei, Y. Wang, T. Vanderah, R. Horvath, M. Nguyen, S. Waite, W. R. Roeske, and et al. The cloning and expression of a human creatine transporter. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 204:419-427, 1994.

    41. Stroud, M. A., D. Holliman, D. Bell, A. L. Green, I. A. Macdonald, and P. L. Greenhaff. Effect of oral creatine supplementation on respiratory gas exchange and blood lactate accumulation during steady-state incremental treadmill exercise and recovery in man. Clin. Sci.(Colch). 87:707-710, 1994.

    42. Tarnopolsky, M. and J. Martin. Creatine monohydrate increases strength in patients with neuromuscular disease. Neurology. 52:854-857, 1999.

    43. Tarnopolsky, M. A., B. D. Roy, and J. R. MacDonald. A randomized, controlled trial of creatine monohydrate in patients with mitochondrial cytopathies. Muscle Nerve. 20:1502-1509, 1997.

    44. Vandenberghe, K., M. Goris, P. Van Hecke, M. Van Leemputte, L. Vangerven, and P. Hespel. Long-term creatine intake is beneficial to muscle performance during resistance training. J. Appl. Physiol. 83:2055-2063, 1997.

    45. Volek, J. S., N. A. Ratamess, M. R. Rubin, A. L. Gomez, D. N. French, M. M. McGuigan, T. P. Scheett, M. J. Sharman, K. Hakkinen, and W. J. Kraemer. The effects of creatine supplementation on muscular performance and body composition responses to short-term resistance training overreaching. Eur J Appl Physiol. 91:628-637, 2004.

    46. Walker, J. B. Creatine: biosynthesis, regulation, and function. Adv Enzymol Relat Areas Mol Biol. 50:177-242, 1979.

    47. Wyss, M. and T. Wallimann. Creatine metabolism and the consequences of creatine depletion in muscle. Mol. Cell. Biochem. 133/134:51-66, 1994.

    48. Ziegenfuss, T. N., P. W. R. Lemon, M. R. Rogers, R. Ross, and K. E. Yarasheski. Acute creatine ingestion: Effects on muscle volume, anaerobic power, fluid volumes and protein turnover. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 29:S127, 1997.

    49. Ziegenfuss, T. N., L. M. Lowery, and P. W. R. Lemon. Acute fluid volume changes in men during three days of creatine supplementation. JEPonline. 1:Issue 3, 1998.



    Taken from the AF website:

    One of the main issues with creatine monohydrate is that in the gut it is metabolized into creatnine and several other less friendly metabolites. These compounds cause stomach bloating, extracellular water retention (subcutaneous bloating) and put strain on the kidneys and liver. By the time that creatine monohydrate enters the blood plasma, especially in those that are “non-responders” there is not a great percentage of pure creatine left.

    The esterification of creatine, in this case creatine ethyl ester, leads to rapid uptake because of its greater lipid solubility which allows it to pass more freely into the blood stream. Esterification also protects it from being prematurely cleaved and thus broken down into the unhealthy and completely without benefit metabolites mentioned above.

    Think of it like a “fast pass” at a theme park, making sure that the creatine quickly and safely gets to the muscle cell.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by macro
    PureCEE is the highest quality and best presentation of creatine ethyl ester available. Every batch is tested by chromadex (the only lab with a verified test) and coated caplets that maintain the integrity of this very hygroscopic material.
    I see that there is 180 tablets...how many per serving?


    All you other guys...what kind of CEE are you taking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by krupt
    I see that there is 180 tablets...how many per serving?

    bodyweight based 1 caplet per 70lbs or fraction there of. ie 220= 4 caplets/day

    each coated caplet has 700mg of pure creatine ethyl ester

  14. #14
    GET BIG evansss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macro
    bodyweight based 1 caplet per 70lbs or fraction there of. ie 220= 4 caplets/day

    each coated caplet has 700mg of pure creatine ethyl ester

    im thinking bout gettin some off the research site...im roughly 225-230 so thats still 4 a day? when should they be taken

  15. #15
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    Just got purecee in the mail today. It says I need to drink 1 liter of water for every 30lb of lean mass....thats a lot. Im not too great with drinking water...but I guess I will have to up the water intake.
    Last edited by krupt; 12-04-2006 at 06:05 PM.

  16. #16
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    bump

  17. #17
    Junior Bodybuilder VICIOUS_BEAST's Avatar
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    Drink Up Kid....

  18. #18
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    So my roommate walks into my room( he has taken a bunch of creatine, protein etc...he played college football) and he see's my purecee and says "what bootleg stuff is this?". It does look a lil generic...don't u think? Seems like it was made in some guys garage...just my opinion. I know I shouldn't judge by the cover.

  19. #19
    sean usmc
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    fuk yeah it will fill you with water retention..you will have a smooth bloat look with really no definition...is that all he is taking?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by krupt
    So my roommate walks into my room( he has taken a bunch of creatine, protein etc...he played college football) and he see's my purecee and says "what bootleg stuff is this?". It does look a lil generic...don't u think? Seems like it was made in some guys garage...just my opinion. I know I shouldn't judge by the cover.

    PureCEE is supposed to look generic, its a single ingredient supplement. All the Scotts Finest line are like that, and they are supposed to look that way. Because thats what they are, they are not combination formulas. Dressing up a single ingredient supp, IMO is wrong. Companies that dress up single ingredient supps are doing so to try to sell you on something other than the product. It is what it is. it does not need window dressing.

    It is however made in a cGMP, NNFA and NSF certified facility that is ISO 9001 compliant and registered with the FDA to produce pharmaceuticals, beleive that they also have a DEA license though would have to check on that.

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    thanks for the input macro. My roomie just made me think a little. So how many hrs before my workout should I take purecee? On the label it just says take it before workout. When would it be the most effective?

  22. #22
    TOOLband.com David Gilmour's Avatar
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    I've been using Prolabs creatine monohydrate for two years now.. $34, and it lasts me a long time..

  23. #23
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    I've had alot more success with DiCreatine Malate than with CEE. I think Trueprotein.com has started carring it and it is cheaper than CEE too. Could some one elaborate on the difference of the two?

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    thats strange because less than 2 months ago you were reccomending creatine anhydrous, which is also wierd because virtually no one sells it. Except syntrax and well, lets just say their track record is not stellar (most retailers discontinued selling it and its no longer even on their site)

    DiCM is malate bound creatine (the di means 2 creatine molecules)... its better than CM, and supplies malate (malic acid) which does have its own benefits, however it still undergoes significant hydrolysis prior to plasma uptake. if you found DiCM better than CEE, you are anomalous or were not using good CEE. Though your previous posts indicate lack of experience with it.

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