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  1. #1
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    Elevated IGF-1 bad or good? Confused
    Saw a special on PBS where the host was eating a crappy, fast food laden diet for some short term research. He seemed to be obsessed with his IGF-1 levels NOT getting elevated. So, how does supplementation of say IGF-1 LR3, for example, sound like a good research option if the goal is to improve health/recovery/increase muscle of the subject etc.? Wouldn't it raise IGF-1 levels?

    Just confused on this point. I'm sure I am missing something here.

  2. #2
    Performance Trainer. SicVic's Avatar
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    Elevated IGF-1 is amazing. Gets you built.

  3. #3
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    IGF-1 is good for building muscle and fat loss but bad for aging. It is a growth factor meaning that it promotes cell division. This can lead to things like cancer, an extreme, and increased aging, more realistic. Every time our cells divide they become slightly more mutated, so lowered IGF-1 levels is actually better for those obsessed with living longer. Although I'd prefer to die a fit 70 year old than a wrinkled up centarian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clamp View Post
    IGF-1 is good for building muscle and fat loss but bad for aging. It is a growth factor meaning that it promotes cell division. This can lead to things like cancer, an extreme, and increased aging, more realistic. Every time our cells divide they become slightly more mutated, so lowered IGF-1 levels is actually better for those obsessed with living longer. Although I'd prefer to die a fit 70 year old than a wrinkled up centarian.
    Let me ask u this...
    if someone takes sermorelin, ghrp 6 and 2 this would increase their igf-1 levels? and would make them age quicker as well? damn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clamp View Post
    IGF-1 is good for building muscle and fat loss but bad for aging. It is a growth factor meaning that it promotes cell division. This can lead to things like cancer, an extreme, and increased aging, more realistic. Every time our cells divide they become slightly more mutated, so lowered IGF-1 levels is actually better for those obsessed with living longer. Although I'd prefer to die a fit 70 year old than a wrinkled up centarian.
    I agree completely...I would much rather die around 70 and fit. Being a nuclear engineer, I've learned a lot about cell division and cells divide in 4 ways...good daughter, bad daughter, dead daughter, no daughter. The cell can divide and be perfectly normal(good daughter), the cell can divide and be mutated(bad daughter), the cell can divide and the daughter cell dies(dead daughter), or the cell itself dies before dividing. The more the cells divide, the higher the chance of having one of the negative cells or dead cells. I hope that made sense.

  6. #6
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My_Pitch27 View Post
    Let me ask u this...
    if someone takes sermorelin, ghrp 6 and 2 this would increase their igf-1 levels? and would make them age quicker as well? damn
    Yes and yes. But as far as my knowledge goes there has not been a study showing how much of an impact this has on aging. Studies on mice have shown IGF-1 deficient mice live significantly longer however there is no telling how this translates to humans, although common sense tells me that it will have the same effect.

  7. #7
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    Makes perfect sense. The more cell division that is present the more chance the DNA has to become mutated. Cancer is the accumulation of mutations in certain oncogenes (tumor suppressor, cell division & death, DNA repair. One of the most important genes is the P-51 gene), which promote cell division even further. Evolution takes place within your own body and the cells which promote their own growth are able to pass on their genes and skew the cell birth to death ratio. These cells then invade other tissues, metastasize (spread through the bloodstream) and likely do not perform their normal cellular processes. This is cancer in a nutshell.
    Symbio likes this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by My_Pitch27 View Post
    Let me ask u this...
    if someone takes sermorelin, ghrp 6 and 2 this would increase their igf-1 levels? and would make them age quicker as well? damn
    hGH braks down into igf1 in liver . so yes this hgh boosting pep stack would rise your igf1 levels....
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

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    Quote Originally Posted by akol View Post
    I agree completely...I would much rather die around 70 and fit. Being a nuclear engineer, I've learned a lot about cell division and cells divide in 4 ways...good daughter, bad daughter, dead daughter, no daughter. The cell can divide and be perfectly normal(good daughter), the cell can divide and be mutated(bad daughter), the cell can divide and the daughter cell dies(dead daughter), or the cell itself dies before dividing. The more the cells divide, the higher the chance of having one of the negative cells or dead cells. I hope that made sense.
    Interesting and is consistent with what I was finding online on the topic. I would see some data suggesting increased IGF increased cardiovascular disease risk and the next set would say exactly the opposite. ?? Same thing with regard to diabetes etc. Guess it is a roll of the dice (even considering good eating and sleeping etc habits).

    I'm pushing 40 so the thought of dying at 70 and fit isn't quite as appealing as it was 20 yrs ago. Maybe by then 80 will be the new 70!

  10. #10
    Novice Symbio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clamp View Post
    Makes perfect sense. The more cell division that is present the more chance the DNA has to become mutated. Cancer is the accumulation of mutations in certain oncogenes (tumor suppressor, cell division & death, DNA repair. One of the most important genes is the P-51 gene), which promote cell division even further. Evolution takes place within your own body and the cells which promote their own growth are able to pass on their genes and skew the cell birth to death ratio. These cells then invade other tissues, metastasize (spread through the bloodstream) and likely do not perform their normal cellular processes. This is cancer in a nutshell.
    Only if your cell repair mechanisms are clogged up.This explains why children during puberty dont develop cancer because of rising igf-1 levels.However there are factors such as environmental pathogens,obesity,genetic susceptibility and a diet low in antioxidants.
    Last edited by Symbio; 07-04-2013 at 10:58 AM.

  11. #11
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symbio View Post
    Only if your cell repair mechanisms are clogged up.This explains why children during puberty dont develop cancer because of rising igf-1 levels.However there are factors such as environmental pathogens,obesity,genetic susceptibility and a diet low in antioxidants.
    Cancer is caused by an accumulation of mutations. When a cell divides there are a few mutations. There are proteins which read the new DNA after it has been formed and replace incorrect nucleotides, these are DNA repair proteins. A few, I believe it is around 5 or 6(which is nothing compared to how many nucleotides are contained in our DNA, so it's nothing to worry about), mutations are not corrected when a cell divides. Most of the time these mutations do not disrupt the function of a cell, however over time more and more mutations can pile up. If a new cell is too different from the parent cell, and it is not corrected, it will actually commit apoptosis, cell suicide. However if this may not happen if certain genes within the cell are mutated which are involved in this process. If the cell des not kill itself, it may continue to reproduce and like I said earlier there will be more and more of these faster replicating cells (since they multiply faster than normal/don't die when they are supposed to). This is cancer. Long story short, it is the ACCUMULATION of all these mutations which cause cancer, it is VERY unlikely for a single mutation to cause cancer. Teens don't typically get cancer, in exception to leukemia and a few others which are actually more common in youth, because their cells have not accumulated enough mutations to cause cancer in the first place.
    Last edited by Clamp; 07-04-2013 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Underlined the important part

  12. #12
    Novice Symbio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clamp View Post
    Yes and yes. But as far as my knowledge goes there has not been a study showing how much of an impact this has on aging. Studies on mice have shown IGF-1 deficient mice live significantly longer however there is no telling how this translates to humans, although common sense tells me that it will have the same effect.
    Laron dwarfs are the human equivalent to igf-1 deficent mice.

  13. #13
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symbio View Post
    Only if your cell repair mechanisms are clogged up.This explains why children during puberty dont develop cancer because of rising igf-1 levels.However there are factors such as environmental pathogens,obesity,genetic susceptibility and a diet low in antioxidants.
    Yes, you are correct, if your cells do not have DNA repair proteins they will accumulate FAR more mutations.

  14. #14
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symbio View Post
    Laron dwarfs are the human equivalent to igf-1 deficent mice.
    Yeah, but I don't know of anyone who'd want to be a midget just to prevent getting cancer, lol. Must suck being that tiny, they look like little children

  15. #15
    Novice Symbio's Avatar
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    Thanks for the rich reading material.So could there be a link between guys who impregnate women after their 40's and the higher incident of downs syndrome because of the dna mutations? You seem like a really smart guy
    Last edited by Symbio; 07-04-2013 at 11:50 AM.

  16. #16
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symbio View Post
    Thanks for the rich reading material.So could there be a link between guys who impregnate women after their 40's and the higher incident of downs syndrome because of the dna mutations? You seem like a really smart guy.
    Yes, that is one of the reasons why children whose parents are older when they are born have a higher incidence of these abnormalities. More mutations, more chances to fuck up. There is a reason all human beings share such similar DNA afterall. It doesn't take much to fuck us up.


    Although downsyndrome is an interesting one. It is due to the way the cells split, rather the failure to split (google nondisjunction for more info), resulting in an extra chromosome 21, trisomy 21. There are only a few chromosomal abnormalties one can have without dying pretty much immediately.
    Last edited by Clamp; 07-04-2013 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Trisomy 21, not 13

  17. #17
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    Oh, and thanks for the compliment. I just remember a lot of useless junk. Not like I'll ever actually need to know any of this.

  18. #18
    Novice Symbio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clamp View Post
    Oh, and thanks for the compliment. I just remember a lot of useless junk. Not like I'll ever actually need to know any of this.
    My dad threatens me that if i dont stfu about medicine and stuff he'll send me to school in Denmark.
    I mean whats left of our society? Retard index is rising and i dont want to be part of that statistics so why not devote your life to science and who knows maybe achieve a breakthrough discovery?

  19. #19
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symbio View Post
    My dad threatens me that if i dont stfu about medicine and stuff he'll send me to school in Denmark.
    I mean whats left of our society? Retard index is rising and i dont want to be part of that statistics so why not devote your life to science and who knows maybe achieve a breakthrough discovery?
    Lol, if it's a good school you should take him up on that offer. I wish my parents paid for my schooling. I'm stuck paying my way through college right now and let me tell you universities are NOT cheap. I can barely afford to feed myself good food, milk is my main source of protein. I graduated valedictorian of a magnet school dedicated to medicine and engineering, which is why I know half the shit about medicine that I do, but I didn't apply for any scholarships and now I'm paying for it big-time. Sucks bro, get a scholarship. School is expensive.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clamp View Post
    Lol, if it's a good school you should take him up on that offer. I wish my parents paid for my schooling. I'm stuck paying my way through college right now and let me tell you universities are NOT cheap. I can barely afford to feed myself good food, milk is my main source of protein. I graduated valedictorian of a magnet school dedicated to medicine and engineering, which is why I know half the shit about medicine that I do, but I didn't apply for any scholarships and now I'm paying for it big-time. Sucks bro, get a scholarship. School is expensive.
    I have two years before any serious decision making Im looking into studying biological sciences.
    Little off topic, but have you had any experience with nootropics?

  21. #21
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symbio View Post
    I have two years before any serious decision making Im looking into studying biological sciences.
    Little off topic, but have you had any experience with nootropics?
    Nope. People at my college use Adderall to study. During finals people will pay 3-4 bucks for a single 20 mg XR, it's insane. It's potent stuff and makes even retards into temporary Einstein's, but I wouldn't recommend it because the crash afterwards has the opposite effects. The ONLY time I would ever use the stuff is before a final or when writing a VERY important paper.

    As far as nootropics go, I've heard online that Piracetam was good and that it helps you focus, but I have never used it myself. It's also extremely cheap when you buy the raw powder so a little bit lasts you a long way. How old are you? You seem a little young to be on a steroid themed site.

  22. #22
    Novice Symbio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clamp View Post
    Nope. People at my college use Adderall to study. During finals people will pay 3-4 bucks for a single 20 mg XR, it's insane. It's potent stuff and makes even retards into temporary Einstein's, but I wouldn't recommend it because the crash afterwards has the opposite effects. The ONLY time I would ever use the stuff is before a final or when writing a VERY important paper.

    As far as nootropics go, I've heard online that Piracetam was good and that it helps you focus, but I have never used it myself. It's also extremely cheap when you buy the raw powder so a little bit lasts you a long way. How old are you? You seem a little young to be on a steroid themed site.
    SWIM used to take codeine every other day because of depression,SWIM was prescribed SSRI's but they only made SWIM sleepy.One time SWIM got a hold of some prescription tramadol and had a near-death-experience.SWIM suffered a mild stroke and now is having memory problems.It takes forever to articulate thoughts into a sentence,my speech once was like a steady stream of overlapping sentences. Dont do drugs kids, says the kid. haha

  23. #23
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by symbio View Post
    swim used to take codeine every other day because of depression,swim was prescribed ssri's but they only made swim sleepy.one time swim got a hold of some prescription tramadol and had a near-death-experience.swim suffered a mild stroke and now is having memory problems.it takes forever to articulate thoughts into a sentence,my speech once was like a steady stream of overlapping sentences. Dont do drugs kids, says the kid. Haha
    swim?

  24. #24
    Novice Symbio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clamp View Post
    swim?
    Someone who isnt me,SWIM for short.

    I want to keep this account.

  25. #25
    Amateur Bodybuilder Clamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symbio View Post
    Someone who isnt me,SWIM for short.

    I want to keep this account.
    Bro, we're on a site dedicated to illegal substances. I don't think anyone'll hassle you about this, lol

    But yeah. nootropics should be able to help. Like I said, I've heard good things about piracetam and it's very cheap too. You might also want to get an active MRI to see what the stroke did to your brain. An MRI, magnetic resonance imaging, can tell where the blood flow is in your brain (because of the iron in your rbc's) and will show dead areas and other important stuff like that. I'd get one done if you haven't already.

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