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  1. #76
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    Dear Sir.
    I want to buy for research purposes, 1 gram of Prohibitin-Targeting Peptide 1. Can I ask you the cost and conditions?

    Here is yesterday's response from Great White Peptides:
    We do not carry this anymore

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    Quote Originally Posted by olegsidoroff View Post
    Dear Sir.
    I want to buy for research purposes, 1 gram of Prohibitin-Targeting Peptide 1. Can I ask you the cost and conditions?

    Here is yesterday's response from Great White Peptides:
    We do not carry this anymore
    That sucks. That really sucks.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by zomorodi View Post
    dan,
    thank you for the response, from a scientific standpoint could you explain why the average/lean monkey didnt show any weight loss? i mean if this peptide works by actually destroying fat cells (rather than simply shrinking them) then i do not understand the results. i also heard that the majority of the fat loss induced by adipotide was visceral fat rather than subcutaneous fat. "MRI and DEXA imaging confirmed that weight loss in the rhesus monkeys occurred primarily because of visceral fat loss." from source (high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2011/11/adipotide-and-bad-fat.html). and from what i understand fat cell numbers can never be reduced in adult life, and that appetite is directly linked to the number of fat cells one has. this makes sense as to why as an overweight person losing fat AND MAINTAINING that loss is a constant battle against elevated ghrelin levels, so on all fronts this drug has the potential to be the "one" we have been waiting for. and lastly i would love to try it but as you mentioned this isnt a drug to try if your on a budget, and i dont think $6000 is doable for me, so do you think as demand steadily increases the prices will drop?
    Hi Zomorodi:

    Adipotide does not kill fat cells directly. It does not recognize fat cells, or lipids or fatty acids. What it recognizes and kills are the epithelial cells that line the capillaries that feed the fat cells with blood and oxygen. These epithelial cells have a protein on their surface, Prohibitin, that other cells in the body do not have and Prohibitin binds to the peptide sequence KGGRAKD. This means that if you make a peptide with the sequence KGGRAKD at one end, it will home to capillaries of adipose tissue and nowhere else. Then you simply attach a death signal to the other end of the peptide and you have the ultimate weapon to kill fat tissue by cutting off its oxygen supply. Its absolutely brilliant and the inventors (Arap and Pasqualini) deserve to make a fortune on this.

    The reason that lean animals are unaffected by adipotide is because they have very little adipose tissue, and hence very little of the epithelial cells that line the capillaries that feed adipose tissue. Since the target of adipotide is the Prohibitin protein that is only found on the capillaries in adipose tissue, and since lean animals do not have such capillaries, adipotide has no target and no effect. Lean animals still have some fat cells elsewhere in the body and they still have lipids and fatty acids in every cell in the body, but these molecules are not the target of adipotide. Therefore adipotide circulates harmlessly in the blood of lean animals and is excreted through the kidneys into the urine.


    But the targeting and killing is not the whole story. Arap and Pasqualini also figured out how to make the peptide biostable so that only modest doses are needed to see the desired effect. The problem is that the body is laced with enzymes (proteases) that degrade peptides. This is a normal and necessary function, as the body makes proteins and peptides and must also degrade them. In order to make adipotide resistant to proteases, they did 2 things. They made the death signal with D amino acids that are unnatural and cannot be recognized by proteases. Fortunately the death signal still works when the sequence KLAKLAK is in the D form. For the homing sequence KGGRAKD, they add cysteines amino acids on each end to obtain the sequence you see in their paper: CKGGRAKDC. These 2 cysteines each have one free sulfur atom and when the peptide solution is diluted and the pH is lowered, the 2 sulfur atoms in the same molecule will bond to each other, cyclizing the peptide. Since the zipcode part of the peptide now has no free end, the proteases cannot chew it up. Absolutely brilliant. Keep in mind that peptide cyclization is used for may peptide drugs, and Arap/Pasqualini were using a trick that others had developed. The death signal was also known. Their big contribution was to find the zipcode homing sequence for the capillaries in fat tissue (KGGRAKD) and then to put the pieces together to create the most elegant solution to the obesity problem that one could possibly imagine.


    ""Dear Sir. I want to buy for research purposes, 1 gram of Prohibitin-Targeting Peptide 1. Can I ask you the cost and conditions?

    Here is yesterday's response from Great White Peptides:
    We do not carry this anymore

    That sucks. That really sucks. """



    It doesn't suck. Not only was GWP charging way too much ($15,000 per gram) but they were breaking the law by selling adipotide because there is a patent on it. Apparently GWP got a letter in the past 2 weeks from the lawyers at Arrowhead Research (which has licensed the patents) and/or the University of Texas that owns the patents and that convinced them that they will be sued big time if they don't stop selling this peptide. So don't expect to see adipotide for sale in the USA, Canada, or the EU before Arrowhead and its partners start selling FDA approved adipotide in 10 years or so. The good news is that the University of Texas only filed patents in the US, Canada, and the EU for the basic idea of making a peptide with the sequence CKGGRAKDC-GG-(D)-KLAKLAKKLAKLAK , cyclizing it, and injecting it to obtain weight loss. This means that you can make, sell, buy and use this peptide anywhere in the world outside of the US, Canada, and the EU without infringing on these patents.

    Perhaps the medical authorites in Mexico, Morocco, and other such places will not be as slow as the FDA in approving CKGGRAKDC-GG-(D)-KLAKLAKKLAKLAK (we should probably not call it adipotide because this name is a trademark now) and it will probably be available in these countries sooner and at a reasonable price. The cost per gram of this peptide when made in kilogram batches will be less than $1000. I can see weight loss clinics in Mexico offering this peptide to patients under a doctor's guidance in less than 5 years. Mexico also has a big problem with obesity, which drains billions of dollars from their economy from higher medical costs, lost productivity, etc. The FDA might think they need 10 years but I am sure the authorities in at least one country not covered by the patents will not be so timid (India, China, Israel, Somalia, Bolivia, North Korea?).

    In the EU, 20 countries are listed as designated states on the EU patent, including all the big ones. San Marino, Malta, Norway, Andorra, Iceland, Hungary, Czech Republic, and a number of others, however, are not listed. Norway is one of the richest countries in the world due to their oil resources, so they have the money, the educated populace, and the freedom to operate (ie no worries over the adipotide patents) and a fair number of body builders to try it out. Any Norwegians out there that want to give it a try?


    Dan
    Last edited by dbrown; 01-30-2012 at 11:35 AM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatwhitepeptides View Post
    WE did not get a nasty Letter actually, I dont know where you got your information that it was a nasty letter from arrowhead we got a letter from the patent attorney explaining to us that we can not sell this peptide. Was a legal letter not a nasty letter But thanks
    Sorry, I changed the post to "Apparently GWP got a letter..."

    There would have been very nasty letters if you did not comply.

    What about all the other patented peptides that you sell? Will also pull them every time the patent owner realizes what you are doing and sends you a letter?

    Dan

  5. #80
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    dan,
    since its not illegal to sell the drug without using the trademarked name "adipotide". could you recommend any research labs located outside the patented areas that are selling the drug?

    thanks,
    zomorodi

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by zomorodi View Post
    dan,
    since its not illegal to sell the drug without using the trademarked name "adipotide". could you recommend any research labs located outside the patented areas that are selling the drug?

    thanks,
    zomorodi
    Zomorodi;

    I haven't seen it for sale yet, but I am sure Chinese and Indian labs will start selling it once they realize the huge market potential.

    For now you will have to place a custom order yourself. You can do this even with labs in the countries were the patents apply because these labs (including US labs) do not check to see if a sequence is patented before making it. They leave this up to the customer and they also guarantee that the orders placed with them are confidential, ie they won't tell anyone what you are ordering. Peptide labs make thousands and thousands of custom peptides mainly for research purposes and they can't worry about what the peptides can do and what they will be used for, and since peptides haven't yet been used and abused as recreational drugs, the authorities are not too concerned. The peptides are sold "For Research Purposes Only".

    If you live in the US, buy adipotide from a US lab and self-administer it without a license from Arrowhead Research, you are infringing on their patent and can be prosecuted. However, this is between you and Arrowhead, not you and the government, and as an individual that is not selling adipotide and only using it yourself, Arrowhead may or may not do something about it, provided they first know what you are up to. Arrowhead is probably most interested in stopping companies like GWP from selling it, and they are even more interested in getting Adipotide FDA approved before the basic patents expire in 2021 so that they can sell it to millions of people and make billions in profits.

    -Dan
    Last edited by dbrown; 02-01-2012 at 02:13 PM.

  7. #82
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    Respectfully, what's your angle on this Dan?

    Are you with another peptides company who wants to sell this product yourself?

    I understand if you are, though I don't like the tactic being used. You should state that though if you are, otherwise it looks like you just kind of have something personal against GWP, ya dig?
    Last edited by BBE; 02-01-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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  8. #83
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    dan,
    how would i go about requesting a custom peptide and can you recommend any research labs?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBE View Post
    Respectfully, what's your angle on this Dan?

    Are you with another peptides company who wants to sell this product yourself?

    I understand if you are, though I don't like the tactic being used. You should state that though if you are, otherwise it looks like you just kind of have something personal against GWP, ya dig?
    I am not in the peptide business. I'm interested in adipotide because I think its brilliant and I want to lose some weight, that's all.

    I think that GWP has a dishonest business model because what they do is find out which peptides work for a desired biological effect in a research setting (for example in rats, mice, and guinea pigs) and then order these peptides (they don't make them themselves) and then sell the peptides "for research purposes only", knowing full well that they will be used for human consumption with the intention of getting a biological effect. Why else advertise on a steroid website where the logo is a syringe?

    GWP sells small amounts of peptide (1-5 mg) at prices that most people can afford ($15-$75). The problem is that there is no evidence that these doses will have a biological effect in humans, much less humans weighing more than 1 Kg. If you take the time to read the papers that show these peptides work in mice, you will see that a 5 mg dose is often what the mouse gets over a 1 month period in order to get the desired effect. But humans are 2,000 times bigger than mice!!! (30 grams x 2,000 = 60 kg) Therefore much, much larger doses are needed for humans. People buy the peptides from GWP, and inject them thinking they will work, yet there is no evidence that they work. GWP makes a profit, the buyer might very well be injecting a useless dose of peptide, and everyone is happy. But I'm not because I feel the buyers are misled by GWP into thinking that they will get a biological effect, just look at the GWP website. They make it sound like what they are selling will work in humans at the doses being sold and they are targeting body builders.

    Adipotide is a good example. Before they pulled it, GWP was selling this peptide at $75 for 5 mg, or $15,000 per gram. The only problem is that if you take the time to do the calculations, a 100 kg person will need about 1 gram to lose 15% of body weight, so these 5 mg doses GWP was selling were way to low and someone would have to buy 200 doses (at $15,000) for a treatment.

    Since I don't sell peptides , I am not bashing a competitor. GWP reads these posts and hopefully will comment.

    -Dan
    Last edited by dbrown; 02-02-2012 at 11:30 AM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayezz View Post
    dan,
    how would i go about requesting a custom peptide and can you recommend any research labs?
    There are hundreds of labs that make custom peptides. I emailed 10 of them, got quotes, and picked one. You can do the same.

    I don't want to recommend any particular lab.

    But before you do this though, you should spend at least a few hundred hours researching the subject and talking to your doctor. I realize people have been self-administering drugs since the beginning of time, but it can be dangerous.

    If you don't have a background in chemistry and peptide chemistry in particular, and have not read and have not understood the papers on adipotide, I don't think you should jump in and order this peptide. Take the time to learn more about what you are doing. My posts on this site are just the first step. There is no rush. The ongoing clinical trials in Houston will be published over the next few years and will determine if the peptide is safe.


    -Dan

  11. #86
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    Hi Dan,

    When you emailed the custom peptide labs what information did you provide them so they knew the proper formulation? I am assuming you needed to specifiy the sequence but did you need to provide the mass as well?

    Thanks

  12. #87
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    Oh one more question to go with the last one. To make sure that the labs are good, should they have some type of certificate or liscensing? Like say if you are searching for a plastic surgeon you would want to make sure that they are Board Certified...that kind of thing?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrown View Post
    There are hundreds of labs that make custom peptides. I emailed 10 of them, got quotes, and picked one. You can do the same.

    I don't want to recommend any particular lab.

    But before you do this though, you should spend at least a few hundred hours researching the subject and talking to your doctor. I realize people have been self-administering drugs since the beginning of time, but it can be dangerous.

    If you don't have a background in chemistry and peptide chemistry in particular, and have not read and have not understood the papers on adipotide, I don't think you should jump in and order this peptide. Take the time to learn more about what you are doing. My posts on this site are just the first step. There is no rush. The ongoing clinical trials in Houston will be published over the next few years and will determine if the peptide is safe.


    -Dan
    I have done little bits of research but not hundreds of hours and as i do not have a chemistry background i am relying mostly on broscience/other peoples expieriences
    thats why im following this log but thanks for the advice.
    how is you trial going so far? any notable side effects?

    Just out of curiosity also, how much did you pay to get it custom made? because i know GWP were selling it at $75 for 5mg which is pointless.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayezz View Post
    I have done little bits of research but not hundreds of hours and as i do not have a chemistry background i am relying mostly on broscience/other peoples expieriences
    thats why im following this log but thanks for the advice.
    how is you trial going so far? any notable side effects?

    Just out of curiosity also, how much did you pay to get it custom made? because i know GWP were selling it at $75 for 5mg which is pointless.
    No side effects at very low doses, which is the most important issue. I don't want to get hurt.

    I paid $6,000 for 1 gram.

    Serious peptide labs are ISO9001 certified and can make a peptide under GMP ("Good manufacturing practice") conditions. Peptides can be purified at 98%+ purity and can be provided as the acetate salt. The peptide lab will make any sequence you want, so you must know and understand exactly what you want, otherwise you are better off waiting for FDA approval, or waiting until companies outside the US, Canada, and the EU start selling the peptide you are interested in. Custom peptide synthesis with the intent of self-administration is not for the uninformed and requires understanding the peptide, and also requires some knowledge of what to do with a raw peptide powder received from the lab after synthesis. For example, when the peptide is dissolved in water, the pH will be less than 2 and this peptide solution will destroy tissue when injected. So the pH must be adjusted upwards. With what, and to what pH? For this you need a basic background in chemistry. Then the peptide solution should be sterilized before injection. This can be done by heating, sub-micron filtration, uv treatment, etc. Which method is best? All valid questions.


    -Dan
    Last edited by dbrown; 02-04-2012 at 07:30 AM.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrown View Post
    No side effects at very low doses, which is the most important issue. I don't want to get hurt.

    I paid $6,000 for 1 gram.

    Serious peptide labs are ISO9001 certified and can make a peptide under GMP ("Good manufacturing practice") conditions. Peptides can be purified at 98%+ purity and can be provided as the acetate salt. The peptide lab will make any sequence you want, so you must know and understand exactly what you want, otherwise you are better off waiting for FDA approval, or waiting until companies outside the US, Canada, and the EU start selling the peptide you are interested in. Custom peptide synthesis with the intent of self-administration is not for the uninformed and requires understanding the peptide, and also requires some knowledge of what to do with a raw peptide powder received from the lab after synthesis. For example, when the peptide is dissolved in water, the pH will be less than 2 and this peptide solution will destroy tissue when injected. So the pH must be adjusted upwards. With what, and to what pH? For this you need a basic background in chemistry. Then the peptide solution should be sterilized before injection. This can be done by heating, sub-micron filtration, uv treatment, etc. Which method is best? All valid questions.


    -Dan
    ok so it sounds like i could really do some damage getting it custom made lol.

    how long do you reckon it will be before it starts becoming commercially available on the net in the same way melanotan etc is?
    good luck with the rest of your trial.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayezz View Post
    ok so it sounds like i could really do some damage getting it custom made lol.

    how long do you reckon it will be before it starts becoming commercially available on the net in the same way melanotan etc is?
    good luck with the rest of your trial.
    Impossible to say. GWP was selling it for about 1 week before they got a letter from the patent owners which convinced them to stop selling it. So don't expect any US based companies to sell this peptide because if they do they will be sued by the owners of the adipotide patents.

    Fortunately peptide labs in India, China, Israel, Mexico, Norway, and many other countries are free to make and sell adipotide because patents were never filed in these countries. Importing it into the US will still be against the law, however. One option will be to buy from a company based in Mexico, and then travel there to take it. Of course this should be done under a doctor's supervision. There are many excellent doctors in Mexico (many are trained in US medical schools) and there are plenty of excellent clinics and diagnostic labs to monitor kidney function during treatment, so the only thing missing as I see it is to get the Mexican authorities to approve. If it is done on consenting, informed volunteers interested in self-administering the peptide, they might say OK. Americans have been going to Mexico for years to have cancer treatments that are not FDA approved, so the authorities there will allow some non-FDA approved treatments.

    Dan
    Last edited by dbrown; 02-05-2012 at 02:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrown View Post
    Impossible to say. GWP was selling it for about 1 week before they got a letter from the patent owners which convinced them to stop selling it. So don't expect any US based companies to sell this peptide because if they do they will be sued by the owners of the adipotide patents.

    Fortunately peptide labs in India, China, Israel, Mexico, Norway, and many other countries are free to make and sell adipotide because patents were never filed in these countries. Importing it into the US will still be against the law, however. One option will be to buy from a company based in Mexico, and then travel there to take it. Of course this should be done under a doctor's supervision. There are many excellent doctors in Mexico (many are trained in US medical schools) and there are plenty of excellent clinics and diagnostic labs to monitor kidney function during treatment, so the only thing missing as I see it is to get the Mexican authorities to approve. If it is done on consenting, informed volunteers interested in self-administering the peptide, they might say OK. Americans have been going to Mexico for years to have cancer treatments that are not FDA approved, so the authorities there will allow some non-FDA approved treatments.

    Dan
    thanks but im not in the US im in australia and its usually no problems importing peptides here as i have had no trouble in the past getting IGF-1 and melanotan through. all i need now is for a lab to start selling it at an affordable price

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    Dan,

    First I want to thank you for all the knoweledge you have been sharing. I'm sure everyone appreciates your insight! I submitted a request for a quote but I am not sure that it is correct. Can you take a look and let me know if this is correct?

    > Sequence: Cys - Lys - Gly - Gly - Arg - Ala - Lys - Asp - Cys - Gly - Gly - (D - Lys - D - Leu - D - Ala - D - Lys - D - Leu - D - Ala - D - Lys)2
    > Modification: Free amine
    > Specify1:
    > Modificaiton2: Free acid
    > Specify2:
    > Purity : 98


    Also, from what you indicated above it sounds like even if you do get the correct formulation, you can't just add saline solution and inject it, that it will kill your cells. If that is the case I'd say that like you have been emphasizing, it is not something that just anyone should be doing. At least not people who do not have a background in chemistry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zomorodi View Post
    i mean i always assumed reseach labs and drug related companies would be the first to realize the potential in a drug. so why havent labs in india china etc caught on yet, surely cant be the ethical boundaries pushed by selling an unapproved drug because they already do that with many unapproved drugs. and i think we can all agree that if a lab was to create 1000kg bulks of the stuff and sell a gram for around $1000 they would have a huge customer base ready with hands in wallets. (bearing in mind people spend far more than $1000 on procedures like liposuction) so why don't they see this HUGE potential to absolutely take over the fat loss and diet market. is the production of this peptide too expensive? or is it that they just haven't heard of this drug yet (which would be pretty sloppy on their part)
    i think you underestimate how uninformed most people are. Look at melanotan for instance, it will give you full olive skin (much better then the sun/solarium will ever give you) with no where near the same cancer risk, yet most people think the ideal way to get a tan is to waste their time sitting on the beach all day roasting themselves to an early grave

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrown View Post
    Custom peptide synthesis with the intent of self-administration is not for the uninformed and requires understanding the peptide, and also requires some knowledge of what to do with a raw peptide powder received from the lab after synthesis. For example, when the peptide is dissolved in water, the pH will be less than 2 and this peptide solution will destroy tissue when injected.

    -Dan
    with this do you mean it will destroy tissue in the good way (lose fat) or in the bad way (say in the same way leprosy would)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayezz View Post
    with this do you mean it will destroy tissue in the good way (lose fat) or in the bad way (say in the same way leprosy would)?
    If you inject a highly acidic solution into your body you will kill tissue, whatever tissue the acid comes into contact with. This is a bad thing. All drugs that are injected into the body must be pH adjusted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slang View Post
    Dan,

    First I want to thank you for all the knoweledge you have been sharing. I'm sure everyone appreciates your insight! I submitted a request for a quote but I am not sure that it is correct. Can you take a look and let me know if this is correct?

    > Sequence: Cys - Lys - Gly - Gly - Arg - Ala - Lys - Asp - Cys - Gly - Gly - (D - Lys - D - Leu - D - Ala - D - Lys - D - Leu - D - Ala - D - Lys)2
    > Modification: Free amine
    > Specify1:
    > Modificaiton2: Free acid
    > Specify2:
    > Purity : 98


    Also, from what you indicated above it sounds like even if you do get the correct formulation, you can't just add saline solution and inject it, that it will kill your cells. If that is the case I'd say that like you have been emphasizing, it is not something that just anyone should be doing. At least not people who do not have a background in chemistry.
    No, this is not correct. You need to read the papers and patents on adipotide carefully to fully understand the peptide structure before even thinking about ordering. If you order and take the peptide listed above it will most likely be useless.

    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayezz View Post
    i think you underestimate how uninformed most people are. Look at melanotan for instance, it will give you full olive skin (much better then the sun/solarium will ever give you) with no where near the same cancer risk, yet most people think the ideal way to get a tan is to waste their time sitting on the beach all day roasting themselves to an early grave
    Yes the majority of the population are misinformed and easily swayed by anything they hear. so i completely agree with you there however drug companies and research companies specialise in this field and should have really recognised the huge potential and demend for this drug before person with no experience in this field like myself. really what im trying to say to the research companies outside the patented area is to wake up and take advantage of the huge opportunity to make big profit before anything happens (possibly a worldwide patent?)

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    I have been reading the research and the patent on this.....wouldn't creating a solution using DSMO & PBS adjust the PH?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrown View Post
    No, this is not correct. You need to read the papers and patents on adipotide carefully to fully understand the peptide structure before even thinking about ordering. If you order and take the peptide listed above it will most likely be useless.

    Dan

    Quote Originally Posted by dbrown View Post
    If you inject a highly acidic solution into your body you will kill tissue, whatever tissue the acid comes into contact with. This is a bad thing. All drugs that are injected into the body must be pH adjusted.


    ergh so confusing for us broscientists. so when it does become available for "research" purposes will i still need to know all this or will i just be able to mix and inject like most other peptides?

    also how are you going so far dan? does it seem to be working? any updates from the trials in houston?

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