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  1. #1
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    Planning my second cycle and have some questions from my first.
    Here is my background info. I'm 36, 5' 9", was 175lb when I started my cycle in March, probably 10% body fat which is higher than people here seem to like but that's what is was. I ran 12 weeks of Test E 500 mg/week split into injections M/Th. Also ran 500mg of HCG Sun/Wed.

    Some additional background info. Feburary 2010 discovered I had low testosterone. It was hovering around 200. I had never taken steroids or anything else so the low T was not expected. I was sent to a Urologist who grilled me with steroid questions and pretty much accused me of taking them as the reason I had low T. That was the first thing that made me not like him. He put me on Clomid 50mg once a day. My T level jumped to over 1,100 then came down into the 700 range, then settled down into the 550 range. Unfortunately my estradol level shot way up too, over 200 at one point! I was an emotional mess and it sucked. The urologist said it was fine and wouldn't do anything about it. Second reason I didn't like him. Since I didn't like the doctor and questioned what he was telling me I did my own research which led me to this site.

    Since the doctor had pretty much accused me of steroid use and my first doctor talked about testosterone injections I decided to run a cycle and see what happened. Before the cycle I was still on Clomid but down to taking just 25mg a day. I didn't want to change too many things when I started the cycle and I wasn't sure what would happen going off clomid after 2 years of daily use. So I kept taking the clomid during the cycle. I also had arimidex in case it was needed.

    The first 6 weeks of my cycle went exactly like what I read in other people's logs. The strength gains, muscle gains, energy level..etc were great. On several muscle groups I had doubled the amount of weight that I had started at. Then things went south quickly. I had switched to a new vial and thought maybe it was bad gear. I had a lab done and my total T came back as over 1,500 so the gear was good. My strength gains had stopped, I started feeling tired, and I didn't get pumped driving to the gym. I kept pushing lifting the same weight for another 2 weeks. At week 8 I was still were I was at strength and size wise at week 6. Then the muscle pumps started in really bad. One set of 5 reps and my muscles would so pumped and swollen it would hurt to move them after the set. In addition to lifting I was also doing kick boxing. The muscle pumps would affect me there too. After 30 seconds of punching my arms would have a severe pump and it would be painful to throw punches. This continued on the rest of the cycle. Then my injuries started to add up. Tendons in my elbows became painful and duing any type of curls hurt. Both shoulders became inflamed to the point that it hurt to lift my arms. I ended the 12 week cycle about where I was at by week 6.

    I waited 2 weeks and then started a 6 week post cycle therapy (pct). Giving my previous low T problem I wanted to make sure I gave my natural production a solid kick start. I ran clomid and nolvadex. I also ran labs at the end of the cycle and during post cycle therapy (pct). The PCT worked and my natural production was 1007 on week 6. I am curious to see what I level out at going off of everything now. My LH and FSH were completely shutdown even though I was taking clomid throughout the cycle. That is what I wanted to confirm. Next cycle I won't be taking the clomid during and save it for post cycle therapy (pct).

    My questions come from what happend at week 6 and beyond. From what I had read that is when I should have been feeling the full affect of the cycle and really getting into it. The gains in other people's logs from week 6 to week 12 were amazing. I basically had none. I know muscle pumps are common but muscle pumps that intense that even throwing punches hurt? The big question is what can I do so the same thing doesn't happen in my next cycle? Any feedback, questions, comments, or criticism is welcomed.

  2. #2
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    Anyone have ideas on what I can do or what supplements can be taken for the tendon pain and inflamed joints? Any ideas why my gains plateaued about 6 weeks in? I had gained about 20 pounds up to that point, added an inch to my arms, and doubled my strength. The last 6 weeks I gained maybe 5 pounds and no real notiable size or strength gains.

  3. #3
    Rookie TheBeast17's Avatar
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    Not sure what to tell you brother, I just started my first cycle myself. From what I'm reading I would leave the gear out of the picture for at least a couple more months and let your joints recover from the poundage. As for the inflammation, I'd take some Ibuprofen every 6 hours or so if its that bad, as far as a second cycle goes what are you planning on taking? Every one responds to AAS differently, maybe you dont need that much test to reap its benefits. Maybe try:

    Test E 250mg/Wk for 12 weeks along with Deca 300mg/Wk for 10 weeks and then start up your post cycle therapy (pct) at week 14 for 4 weeks, Deca should help those joint problems and help you achieve your goals.

    Good Luck
    Beast

  4. #4
    j2048b
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    [url=http://www.healthandfitnesstalk.com/showthread.php/3528-Basic-Application-of-Various-Gear-]Basic Application of Various Gear (How to setup your 2nd cycle)[/url]

    read this for a good listing and info for 2nd cycles

    a lot of times tendons and joints get sore specifically because the muscles are growing bigger and faster than before thus not allowing for any tendon growth or stretch for the muscle growth,

    add in some fish oils about 6 mlg a day.

    and as far as the pumps went, did u get blood work, or even give blood durring ur cycle? u need to check ur blood to make sure ur hemacritic level and rbc is not too high, just a lil fyi,
    Last edited by j2048b; 08-08-2012 at 02:33 PM.

  5. #5
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    I did have bloodwork during the cycle. When all the problems started up I had a full set of labs done. RBC was 5.39 x10E6/uL. The accepted range is 4.10 - 5.60. My hematocrit level was 49.1% and the range is 36.0-50.0. The only things high were Eos at 9% with a range of 0% to 7% and AST 48 IU/L with a range of 0 to 40.

    Thanks for the link. I will take a look at it. I am considering adding Deca or Equipoise but I need to do more research on them first.

  6. #6
    j2048b
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    Oh ok, well i know plenty of guys who use deca for their joint issues but at lower dosages, but be aware deca will raise ur Rbc as noted in the link i gave and is recommended to give blood while using it, maybe ur body could not handle the amount of test? Im not sure?

    plus a bunch of others have been running anavar towards the end of their cycles to prevent exactly what happened to u at the 6 week mark, anavar will help u get stronger and aid in that platue towards the end, something to think about to possibly add?

    This is just my .02 do some more research and possibly pm det oak or zeek and see if they can assist u in why ur cycle did what it did while u were on? They know thier shit and might be able to answer ur questions a bit more in depth?

    Ill pm them both for u as u only have 7 posts and ask them to take a look at ur thread

    Pm'ed both of them for u! Hopefully they can chime in? Hope it is worked out for u!
    Last edited by j2048b; 08-08-2012 at 04:01 PM.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the info and sending out the PMs. I'm working on getting my 50 posts. I will be doing a lot more research as I don't know much outside of the basics. These are on my list to learn more about Deca, Primo, Anavar, and Equipoise. I'm not sure how high my test actually got since LabCorp only goes up to 1,500 and I was above that. My next cycle will be similar to my first, just so I'm changing one or two things at a time like adding Deca and seeing if it helps with the tendons and joints.

  8. #8
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    I hope you're not considering those 4 compounds because of the ever popular internet steroid article that "explains" how those 4 steroids boost collagen synthesis while testosterone decreases it. That article doesn't cite a single source and has been disproven many times across the web. If you search, you'll find studies about how Deca decreases collagen synthesis, how test can increase it OR decrease it, and how Winstrol (winny) (contrary to what the article says) is actually being considered clinically for debilitated tendon treatment. There's also a lot of conjecture that tren may be useful to this end by means of bolstering IGF production, despite the "dry" feeling some users complain of while on it.

    Regardless, you'd truly be better off looking into growth and peptides for "collagen synthesis".

    Supplement wise, look into collagen, glucosamine, chondroitin, hyaluronic acid.

  9. #9
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    I did find those 4 mentioned in an article on a site with a similar name to this one. Not sure if that is the article you were referring to. I got as far as writting down the names. I do my own research and look for both the pros and cons. I'll add Winstrol (winny) and Tren to my list to research as well. Before and during my cycle I was on a glucosamine and chondroitin that was recommended by the professional MMA fighter that runs the gym I train at. He has used it and said it works. He wasn't selling it either. Just recommending a product to someone asking about joint pain. I will also look into collagen and hyaluronic acid.

  10. #10
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    It's this article here, I'm sure.

    Increase skeletal muscle & collagen synthesis with certain AAS

    Btw, dont confuse my comments on Winstrol (winny) as a recommendation to use Winny! I just said the article wasn't accurate in its depiction of it, but that isn't to say that Winstrol (winny) would be a good choice either. Winstrol (winny) will dry you out like nothing else and if you lift heavy you'll definitely get some joint ache-age.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for the link to the article. Looks like the same information I read on the other site. I didn't take anything you said as a recommendation. I plan to research them as far as treating joint pain and then deciding what to do.

    As far as I know it could have been the clomid during the cycle that caused my problems. Now that I know my HPTA still got shutdown hard I will be removing that from the next cycle. I want to add something related to joint pain but still keep test E as my base. Since every body behaves differently there is really no way of telling what will happen until I actually do my second cycle.

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