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  1. #1
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    Prop and var cut/strength log
    EDIT: title should say prop + var, not test + prop haha

    I shoulda started this log a long time ago seeing as how I began my cycle last week... but no big deal, either way no real progress to report yet other than some bloat, so nothing too exciting was missed!

    So some background. I decided my first cycle should be a cut/recomp, since my bulks are always highly successful whereas my cuts are always periods of stagnation... so for now I'm hoping that gear use will help keep my progress constant I'm only running a slight deficit right now... 250 cals/day below maintenance.

    I began the cycle a week ago... 100 mg var/day and started @ 100 mg prop EOD, but by my third pin I was like "fuck it" and boosted up to 150 EOD just to hit 500/wk... figured this would provide better strength gains.

    Well... a week has gone by since I began last Monday. The test has given me some big bloat so far (hooray, not) and the var has given me some vascularity in places I don't remember seeing it (abs). But no strength increases yet >:[

    I've read in a few places that my strength should've picked up by now, and I'm kinda wondering why it hasn't. Don't think the gear is bunk. It's PEA, and like I said before, the bloat and vascularity I think I have can only be attributed to the juice itself, since I've changed nothing else about my diet or lifestyle.

    Anyone have any input on when I can expect to start packing on the strength?

    Also gotta start taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to deal with this bloat. Will probably do that one of these days. If Aromasin doesn't dry me out like I hope it does then I may have to look towards other measures... maybe even drop the test dosage back down lol.. gotta stay sexy this summa brahs
    Last edited by MN87; 06-25-2012 at 08:16 PM.

  2. #2
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    Not gonna bother posting any of my workout numbers until I start seeing some progress kick in... figure it's kinda pointless. So I'll just use this to log visual changes and stuff like that until then
    Last edited by MN87; 06-25-2012 at 08:26 PM.

  3. #3
    Junior Bodybuilder noobmuscle's Avatar
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    Prop does kick in faster, but it will still take a little time. I have heard a lot of good reviews on PEA so I'm sure your in good hands. Muscle density may be increasing. Hang in there. Do you mind posting some stats with your cycle lay out? It will help people like me who want to follow.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for following

    Background @ 5'11, mid 180s, 32 inch waist
    BP: 390 1RM, 225 x 23 (hoping to boost these reps way up)
    Squat: 495 1RM

    I primarily train for strength but I try to maintain a very aesthetic look at the same time

    Bloat has me wayyy up as of today... I don't even wanna say how much I weigh now lol

    On another note, for what its worth, I changed up my workout pretty intensely the very minute I started cycling. Little did I know there would be a lag time from my first pin to the time I'd start seeing positive effects from the cycle. The routine is nothing I can't handle during a bulk, but a lot more intensive than what I'd run on a cut... that being said, I'm gonna decrease the regimen until something kicks in, because I def can't run this program and make gains on a caloric deficit without "assistance"
    Last edited by MN87; 06-30-2012 at 10:59 AM.

  5. #5
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    Ordered some Aromasin earlier today which should get here Thursday... gonna start running it asap. Not sure of what to start at, might start high at 25mg/day just to get myself dry, then gradually try dropping to the lowest possible dose that'll still keep me looking good

    Also gonna try eliminate sodium sources these next few days to see if that helps... mostly steak seasonings and stuff. I do love me some Montreal steak seasoning

  6. #6
    Junior Bodybuilder snobE1226's Avatar
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    12.5mg seems to be a good base to start, don't want it dropping your e levels too low with a higher dose..
    jadakiss likes this.

  7. #7
    Amateur Bodybuilder Hockeyplaya18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snobE1226 View Post
    12.5mg seems to be a good base to start, don't want it dropping your e levels too low with a higher dose..
    Totally agree with this, if you dose to high the first time you take it, you'll crash, I crashed at 12.5 and I slept that whole weekend away lol. Start at 12.5 see how ya feel, keep that dose up for a week or so, if there is still some bloat and you feel normal up it a lil, but Im thinking 12.5mg will be plenty.

  8. #8
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    Hm 12.5mg seems like consensus... half life of Aromasin is 9 hours in men, right? (24 hours in women) I mean, lethargy killing my workouts would be a big concern for me, but since I workout first thing in the morning, maybe I can just take 25mg post w/o and deal with the effects afterwards.

    Ok so I've been on a week but this bloat is crazy. I will admit that yesterday was my high carb day, and I also ate ALOT more sodium than normal... but Jesus... it NEVER used to affect me like this when I was natural. Moonface has arrived today And my gut isn't tight/defined like it used to be... very jiggly now. Like I said earlier, I'll try to really curb my sodium intake for a day or two before I hit the AI... just to standardize all the variables as best I can. Continue hydrating myself as well as I can, and then go from there
    Last edited by MN87; 06-26-2012 at 12:40 PM.

  9. #9
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    Bloat is down a bit since yesterday (-6 lbs) but is still way up since cycle started (let's say 12-14 lbs). Musta been the crazy sodium intake that pushed me over the edge the other day... weird. Face def looks better too.. I've been keeping a picture log of my face to monitor bloat lol.. don't hate

    Will probably order some letro just as a safety precaution... and consider using it if the Aromasin doesn't do its job the way I want it to. The gyno rebound aspect concerns me though, and I know Aromasin is superior in that respect. I probably sound very obsessive right now but staying dry is very important for me whilst on cycle

    Also researching some other shit to add to cycle and/or post cycle therapy (pct). Namely IGF and a GHRP and a GHRH.

    GW-501516 looks interesting too and people seem to be having a lot of success with it but I've read conflicting reports about its sides... like that it promotes cancerous tumorous growth in the lungs and such. Me no likey
    Last edited by MN87; 06-27-2012 at 09:57 AM.

  10. #10
    Pro Bodybuilder jadakiss's Avatar
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    Cool log, ur in good hands with PEA just give it time . Keep that sodium down!

  11. #11
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    Day 10... we have liftoff!

    So, not to jump to conclusions after just one workout, but I think today MAY have been the day my shit finally kicked in... whether its the var or prop I have no way of knowing. I NEVER gain ANY strength on a cut... at the very best I maintain. So the fact that I hit some PRs on a caloric deficit says something. Here they are:

    205x5 on OHP (neutral grip)
    125x10x3 on DB inclines
    225x25 on bp

    These PRs were not particularly difficult either... now I'm not sure if these were placebo induced or juice induced, my next press workout Sunday will shed some light on this.

    Also, my liquid Aromasin came in today. My morning weight is down once again (3 lbs since yest) so it looks like my bloat is slowly subsiding. I'd like to start using the aromasin but I'll probably wait a few days... I want my weight to stabilize so I can see how much bloat was diet-induced. Then I'll add Aromasin to see its effects on the estrogen-induced bloat. Still not sure of my starting dose but I'll probably start high(er) to get dry fast and then gradually reduce the dose until I find the lowest dose that'll still keep me 100% dry.
    Last edited by MN87; 06-29-2012 at 03:16 PM.

  12. #12
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    Other random thoughts:

    Just wanna say that it was a fucking bitch propping up the dumbells on my legs on my inclines; the PIP pain was kinda bad as it is, but having a 125 pound dumbbell thud against your aching muscle really fuckin hurts

    Eventually Id like to test the limits of my recovery abilities on cycle and change my lift frequency from e3d to e2d. I'd probably decrease volume to pull that off, but my rate of strength gains would skyrocket if it works But w that kind of frequency Id have to worry about injury prevention too

    I really hope that this cycle will allow me to recomp since it's my first cycle and I'm only cutting at 250 cals below maintenance. Other than tren I think the compounds and doses I chose would be conducive for this goal. I know that strength =/= size, but I think if I add some strength to my lifts it'll translate to at least SOME muscle even if I'm cutting.

    When my weight loss plateaus, I may cut another 250 cals/day and ride that out to the end of my cycle; dont plan on cutting more than that. That will probably get me to where I wanna be if Im not already there. Will probably transition into a slight bulk during post cycle therapy (pct) by increasing protein intake... although I might have to add more sooner if I start gaining alotta lean mass on this cut
    Last edited by MN87; 06-29-2012 at 03:39 PM.

  13. #13
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    In for this, it looks like it will be dramatic. I'm sure the extra water is helping your strength increase so you'll have a juggling act when you bring in the aromasin. Honestly, I want to see you up your cals and keep the bloat to see just how strong this stack would make you, but that's my input with you as a cool experiment. How long will you be on this cycle?

  14. #14
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    Thanks man... the bloat actually doesn't help my leverages much really, not as much as fat does. But yes, I have some big goals in mind for this cycle... I hope that fellow powerlifters will enjoy this log Right now I'm scheduled for 8 weeks but I will definitely asses a few things and decide whether to extend it to 12.

    Also, started Exemestane @ 25 mg today. I'll experiment with lower doses once this initial bloat subsides... right now I'm carrying 10 pounds extra weight, as opposed to the 20 I was carrying last weekend after my sodium feast... yelch

    Excited for tomorrow's workout!! Big day! I'll post some numbers up and maybe some 'before' pics

  15. #15
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    Does your gym max out at 125 with the dumbbells? Mine does and it's pretty cool to kid the manager and let him know he has to order heavier weights for the big boys. But yeah, I imagine 125 pounds sitting on your PIP would blow, however it may piss you off just enough to add more reps to your set.

  16. #16
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    They used to stop at 125 but they recently brought in pairs from 135-150. Problem is there are no 130s! Which is gonna make the transition from 125 to 135 very difficult... but I have a few ideas on how to deal with it. Basically I'll start by slightly increasing the angle of the bench and getting just as strong at that angle. After I do that, I'll drop the incline to either the previous setting or the one beneath.. start with the 135s, and work my way up. Etc etc.. and eventually I hope to apply this to be able to get the 135s on the original incline.

    Of the four gyms I used to go to, one had DBs up to 155, 170, and the last up to 200... the last was a school gym and stopped at 100 so I had to use duct tape to attach plates to the ends of the DBs lol

  17. #17
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    Yep, shit is definitely kicking strong... numbers are all up since last time Some of my workout today:

    SOHP = 205 x 6
    DB inc = 125 x7 (on an increased bench angle)
    BB inc = 285 x 8
    Flat = 325 x 8, 225x26

    These aren't all PRs per se... I've lifted heavier in the past, but I weighed 272 lbs at the time lol... so they're PRs for my current bodyweight for sure.

    Going back later to do squats and other misc shit... today is a high carb day. Next 2 days are low carb/cardio days, and then repeat the routine all over again

    Def need to look into some sort of GHRP/GNRH/MGF combo to preserve the integrity of my connective tissue as I get stronger... suggestions/direction is welcome. I hope to add something within the next two weeks, prob starting with Ipam/Mod-GRF.

  18. #18
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    Other than the fact that I'm gaining strength on a cut, I'll tell you guys what else is so awesome about strength gains on cycle.. They're easy!

    When I was natural I'd have to use volume training, conjugate method, lift rotation, periodization... All types of shit to get my bench up. Now I just get under the bar and go for another rep and... I get it

    But maybe I'm jumping the gun, I've only had two workouts so far anyway lol

  19. #19
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    Good stuff man, those are some impressive numbers. I've been lifting at a lighter load for about 3 months to try and increase my rep endurance but the entire time I have been chomping at the bit to go back to the heavier loads. I'm thinking now's the time, but much like your concerns, i'm hoping not to grow too fast and risk injury. Either way, go hard or go home!

  20. #20
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    Thanks man. Re: injury prevention, I think I'm in a good situation in the sense that many of my lifts have fallen from their peak, meaning at the very least that my tissues do have some experience with that type of load. That being said, I also have goals that far exceed my previous numbers... so to this end, I am hoping to introduce an MGF protocol to help keep myself healthy... I'll detail that in this log too when that happens, if you're interested.

    Yesterday's squats were trained a bit haphazardly, only because I haven't really yet figured out how I wanna train em... did 475x3. They will go up fast I am sure... hopefully I can still get some solid size gains despite being on a cal deficit.

    3rd day on 25mg exemestane, no discernible changes yet, but I heard it takes bout a week to kick. I'm also re-evaluating my decision to run Nolva for post cycle therapy (pct) since I began learning that it lowers IGF levels.

    Next workout Wed

  21. #21
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    Interesting regarding the nolva, i've never heard that. I went with clomid but am not sure of its impact on igf production. I assume it will lower dramatically anyway once off test but it definitely would be nice to keep it at its maximal level for pct.

    Dude, the letrozole kicked in fast and is stripping away some water weight, i'm feeling more vascular already. I hope the exemestane does the trick.

  22. #22
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    Yeah I'm still waiting for my Aromasin to really make a statement. I am two pounds lighter than when I began dosing last Saturday but that don't mean shit to me. At this weight I don't look particularly bloated but don't look as lean as I should either... I'm currently carrying 6-8 pounds of bloat that I didn't otherwise have when my cycle began.

    Had to squeeze in a quick workout before july 4th merriments. Had a few PRs but my most notable was 225x29 on flat End of my workout too! I was originally aiming for 30 by August, but shit, at this rate I should be well above that come August. Really happy about that... my strength has been seeing steady and slow increases, but interestingly enough seems like my endurance has reaped the biggest benefit thus far

  23. #23
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    29????? Damn, i'll have to see what I hit this coming saturday. I usually save that weight for my last set and can usually get mid 20's. You may be shooting for 35+ by august. Hell, maybe more then that. The strongest dudes in the nfl lift in the 40 range so that is mighty impressive\, especially at your bodyweight. That is ELITE!!!!

  24. #24
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    I would really like to begin experimenting with an E2D lifting routine (instead of my current E3D routine) either beginning this weekend or next week. I've done this successfully in the past when natural but only for a limited amount of time before my lifts began plateauing. So, if my lifts begin to plateau, I'll go back to E3D. E2D would probably mean I'd have to lower training volume, so I'd have to figure that out too.

    Will probably order some Ipam/Mod GRF later tonight. I'll probably start on it to coincide with my switch in programs. Still researching MGF.

  25. #25
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    Day 8 on 25mg Aromasin and yet my weight has not moved since I began it. Da fuq? Since I started running it 2 weeks into the cycle it probably won't do anything for the test that has already aromatized into estro... so I guess I have to wait for that estro to clear my system before I see my weight drop. I ordered the exemestane from Research Stop, which I had NEVER seen poor reviews about. I'll give this stuff a week or two before I start looking elsewhere... probably GWP. Anyone have any input?

    Today's workout was aiight. PR of the day was 325 x 10 on flat, and my DB inclines have seen consistent increases. I'm dissatisfied with the lack of progress on my squats though, so I will be changing a few things up with my routine.

    Start of week 4 on Monday cycle is flying by. Haven't started Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) yet but may this week.

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