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  1. #1
    Moderator Mr P's Avatar
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    History is shorter than we believe vid,. WTF!!

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    just more proof that no one knows what the fuck the real truth is and none of us will ever know. Why do people have to know? Why can't people just live without validation from some God or even a scientific theory? Amazes me everyday.

    I really love all the jesus freaks and their illogical thought though. Makes for great entertainment.

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    Наркоман тестостерона 82nd_Fister's Avatar
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    I lead a pretty happy life knowing I'm saved by faith through grace.

    Plus, if I die and I'm wrong, what have I lost?

    But if a non-believer dies and they're wrong... game over, man.

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    This is an interesting vid, I choose to believe in God, but this vid is really about when our history really began... I do find it intriging, no body really knows what's out there, I like to keep an open mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 82nd_Fister View Post
    I lead a pretty happy life knowing I'm saved by faith through grace.

    Plus, if I die and I'm wrong, what have I lost?

    But if a non-believer dies and they're wrong... game over, man.

    i love this argument when i hear it. If this is true God is really a narcissistic sonofabitch, and if all that "only those who believe in me will enter the gates of heaven" shit is true, i don't wanna be with that egotistical bastard anyway.

    Its like the "god has a plan for everyone" argument. what about the guy who sodomizes infants for fun.... what's god's big plan for him?

    Sorry, all a bit shady for me.

  6. #6
    stop fn staring! jimbo79's Avatar
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    I hope heaven and hell have hockey teams!

    Otherwise...i dont care.

  7. #7
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    btw Fister, that wasn't directed at you brother. You have your views and I have mine. And I will always respect someones views.

    Which is why i usually don't talk about religion or politics in public to people i don't know.

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    stop fn staring! jimbo79's Avatar
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    It's a computer generated narrator aswell,
    has one of those xtranormal video voices.

  9. #9
    Junior Bodybuilder BimmerDude's Avatar
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    This video is a promo for a book that neither proves nor disproves anything. Its no different from the countless conspiracy theory documentaries that have been running on the History channel for years that pique people's curiosity and get them to buy more of the pitcher's books, magazines, and videos. That's ALL it is.

    This is why a good liberal arts education is such a priceless thing. If nothing else, what you're supposed to take away from it it that this fucking place is old, and that people have been living here for a long, long time believing and doing the same shit that we do now. Civilizations rise and fall, but the only things that actually change are culture and technology. That's essentially what the stuff in the libraries and museums all over the world show. If you travel internationally to some of the old archeological ruins (i.e. the Pyramids in Egypt, and some of the old Indian ruins in Central and South America) or even to some important historical locations that are still lived in today (i.e. Florence, Italy) you can actually see, touch, and smell the age of these places. No fucking way they all came into existence within a thousand years or even two. I am very passionate about this topic because it is one of my favorite things to read about and research and travel to in my free time. I've been to some obscure places internationally that aren't even mentioned in the text books and seen a lot of shit that would make anyone stop and wonder. Some of the intricately designed ruins in parts of South America for example, where Indian civilizations existed thousands of years before any of the European nations did. There's a lot that we still don't know about the past, and some of it we will probably never know. But just because the scientists can't explain it all perfectly doesn't mean that the established evidence is all wrong.

    This is not 'new' evidence of anything. Just a slick con man trying to get rich with another bullshit book.

  10. #10
    Prodigal son Zero V's Avatar
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    As a Creationist (believing man has only been around for roughly 4,000-6,000 years) and a Christian that video makes alot of sense.



    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerDude View Post

    This is not 'new' evidence of anything. Just a slick con man trying to get rich with another bullshit book.
    This also makes sense, if not more sense

    I have major issues with Carbon dating though, considering its based against nothing, and too full of errors.

    History is just that..History, we will NEVER know the true truths unless (dependant upon individual belief here) when we die we get a chance to have whatever knowledge we want.

    Quote Originally Posted by RJH90210 View Post
    i love this argument when i hear it. If this is true God is really a narcissistic sonofabitch, and if all that "only those who believe in me will enter the gates of heaven" shit is true, i don't wanna be with that egotistical bastard anyway.

    Its like the "god has a plan for everyone" argument. what about the guy who sodomizes infants for fun.... what's god's big plan for him?

    Sorry, all a bit shady for me.
    Easily understood view, even as a believer I have been quite angry at my God. But also as a Christian I am no pussy. Someone does that to a kid, I think he should be tied to a chair beside a home depot and the father of that child gets all the tools and supplies he wants for free to do as he wishes.

    I see God as more of a guiding pull for paths, not necessarily that we all walk pre-fabricated lives that have a set future. I duno most of my faith are quaks, and to them I am a crazy for being a little diff. Then again I am always labeled crazy

    If anything the Bible we follow is essentially as good as you can get for moral values. Dont steal, murder, cheat on your wife, sleep with your neighbors wife, lie, etc,etc. I do hate ultraconservative panzies though (because I used to be one )

    My biggest point about atheism (as in I cant follow it myself that is) is that...well if there was no God/afterlife I really would have no reason not to shoot irritating people, or even worry about death.

    I used to get kinda overly zealous on one of my older boards. Now I follow the principle(as best I can) that we each have to find our own peace in life. Our own path that allows us to reach our potential. The human spirit is amazing when its at its beauty points, doing the impossible. Yet at its darkest hours people can commit atrocities that most of us cannot comprehend why they did it.
    Last edited by Zero V; 01-03-2011 at 10:55 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    Now I follow the principle(as best I can) that we each have to find our own peace in life. Our own path that allows us to reach our potential. The human spirit is amazing when its at its beauty points, doing the impossible. Yet at its darkest hours people can commit atrocities that most of us cannot comprehend why they did it.
    great post right here.

    I understand curiousity, but not to the point where it rules my life and has to validate my existence. That's what drives me crazy about half in/half out religion. I don't need to go to church to prove anything to myself. Because who i am if i went to church is who i am when i leave church.

    I love my wife, my child, and my family. I have faith that i will do the right thing when i am supposed to, and if i don't, learn from that mistake. I aim to teach my child what my wife and I think are good moral values and guide on his own life of fulfillment, whatever that may entail.

    I don't need to know who or why. Just that while i am here I am gonna make the most of it.

  12. #12
    Наркоман тестостерона 82nd_Fister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJH90210 View Post
    btw Fister, that wasn't directed at you brother. You have your views and I have mine. And I will always respect someones views.

    Which is why i usually don't talk about religion or politics in public to people i don't know.
    Nah, no worries. I'll admit its a little sketchy sometimes, but that's where faith comes in

    As for the plan for everything, I will say this: thinking that God has planned when I'm going to die makes my job a whole lot easier.

    But like I said, if I die and I was wrong.. oh well.

    But I'm not one of those religious fanatics who try to push their beliefs on people. If you, in general, ask me about my beliefs I will explain them as far as you care to hear. But I wont impose on anyone.

    I feel the same way about it as I do leadership. Lead by example, not force.

  13. #13
    Setting NEWB Gun to KILL scotimusprime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo79 View Post
    It's a computer generated narrator aswell,
    has one of those xtranormal video voices.
    this is a good reminder that we have not had one of these movies on here lately and someone should make one up on something (involving RJ)

  14. #14
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    i guess i would be the expert on this subject with my double major in phil and religous studies huh?

    the video is a load of crap... PERIOD..

    believe in what u want.. whatever brings u peace..


    just dont get into a debate with me about it.. ull be sure to question ur faith... like many have before...
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  15. #15
    Junior Bodybuilder BimmerDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    As a Creationist (believing man has only been around for roughly 4,000-6,000 years) and a Christian that video makes alot of sense.
    Yes, and we have to be careful when we bring God and Christianity into these discussions and try to use them as a gauge for anything. Why? Because Christianity is the youngest of the 'old world' religions and many of its principles and standards were copied from the ones that existed before it. The Christian concept of a spirit 'God' is also not unique to Christians or Christianity and existed long before ancient Israel.

    I was raised as a Christian, too. So I would never knock anyone who chooses to continue to believe the things that the churches teach today. But I have learned from study of world religions that many of those things are not true and also did not originate in the Bible as many Christians believe. The story about Adam and Eve, Noah and the Flood, Cain and Abel, even Jesus' fable about the Prodigal Son, and many others...including the story about a Messiah and right up to predictions about the end of the world... much of this stuff was copied from much older Mesopotamian literature from many many years before, and from Greco-Roman folklore and literature.

    Learning these things shook the foundation of my spirituality to the core. Its not a comfortable thing when you're confronted with irrefutable evidence that many of the things you firmly believed to be original and true are actually not so. But it makes no difference what any individual chooses to believe or not believe; as RJ correctly said, that always boils down to heated (and non-productive) arguments between people who arrogantly believe that their philosophy and worldview is superior to everyone else's. And people will hate, slander, and even kill you if you don't subscribe to their bullshit.

    Not every artifact is dated by Carbon methodology but this gives us a good point of reference, and the ground occasionally coughs up evidence that some revisionists have tried to deny---for instance, the time when the dinosaurs lived, or the timeline that divies up the geological periods.

    I believe in God. But I also believe that many of the things people have been taught about God are lies based on misinformation that carried over from the Classic periods when the ancient Jewish religion blended in with Greek and Roman culture. The problem I've always had with creationist apologists is that they seem stuck on believing that certain things are true just because they believe that they are true. Another example: the creation and age of the universe.

    God as the Creator and absolute authority over all things has allowed an awful lot of bad things to carry on among humanity throughout time. But even 'good' and 'bad' are subjective descriptors---in other words, mere points of view. The Christian churches have collectively been behind more war, bloodshed, and privation than any single government or political entity that has ever existed. And they can justify these things with excerpts from the Bible, which tell stories about God and his angels leading the Israelites successfully into battle. But was this divine rectitude, justice, favoritism, or bullying? The point is not about choosing one of these four options but realizing that perhaps God didn't have anything to do with any of it at all. The corpus of my argument in this thread is embodied in the preceding sentence. This is the reason that materialist philosophy has always dominated and directed the attitude and behavior of most people---even the ones who claim to be righteous.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotimusprime View Post
    this is a good reminder that we have not had one of these movies on here lately and someone should make one up on something (involving RJ)
    ha i look forward to those things... i laughed on the floor the last time i watched one
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  17. #17
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    Excellent thread here. And I like how civil everyone is (knock on wood).

    Bimmer, you've hijacked every thought I own on this subject. Sounds like Liberal Arts educations don't stray far from each other. Excellent points, thanks for sharing.

    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerDude View Post
    The problem I've always had with creationist apologists is that they seem stuck on believing that certain things are true just because they believe that they are true.
    This is always a frustration for me but that is where the science of religion ends and the "faith" begins. The fact is that religion can't be proved, and some feel it shouldn't be proved, by science. That's why it's called faith.

    I'm not a religious person but I enjoy looking at the issues.

  18. #18
    Moderator Mr P's Avatar
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    I think that having douts is only human, I understand how powerful faith can be, if a man believes in something they will move mountains with their faith.

    But no one really knows the truth, no one can tell you what God's plan is or if there's even one. All we have a book called The Bible that was made by man inspired by God.
    Made by Man inspired by God How do we really know that they didn't input their own believes and their own views.

    We all have our opinions & our believes, I respect everyones views, Not to say I don't believe in God but I have my doubts.
    Let's not forget GOD backwards spells DOG...So I guess we all know who god is (DADAWG)..lol

    Here's a little something Bill Maher said that I found interesting

    " Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!
    Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas.
    And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you you don't.
    How can I be so sure? Because I don't know either, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not" Bill Maher
    Last edited by Mr P; 01-04-2011 at 09:19 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerDude View Post
    Yes, and we have to be careful when we bring God and Christianity into these discussions and try to use them as a gauge for anything. Why? Because Christianity is the youngest of the 'old world' religions and many of its principles and standards were copied from the ones that existed before it. The Christian concept of a spirit 'God' is also not unique to Christians or Christianity and existed long before ancient Israel.

    I was raised as a Christian, too. So I would never knock anyone who chooses to continue to believe the things that the churches teach today. But I have learned from study of world religions that many of those things are not true and also did not originate in the Bible as many Christians believe. The story about Adam and Eve, Noah and the Flood, Cain and Abel, even Jesus' fable about the Prodigal Son, and many others...including the story about a Messiah and right up to predictions about the end of the world... much of this stuff was copied from much older Mesopotamian literature from many many years before, and from Greco-Roman folklore and literature.

    Learning these things shook the foundation of my spirituality to the core. Its not a comfortable thing when you're confronted with irrefutable evidence that many of the things you firmly believed to be original and true are actually not so. But it makes no difference what any individual chooses to believe or not believe; as RJ correctly said, that always boils down to heated (and non-productive) arguments between people who arrogantly believe that their philosophy and worldview is superior to everyone else's. And people will hate, slander, and even kill you if you don't subscribe to their bullshit.

    Not every artifact is dated by Carbon methodology but this gives us a good point of reference, and the ground occasionally coughs up evidence that some revisionists have tried to deny---for instance, the time when the dinosaurs lived, or the timeline that divies up the geological periods.

    I believe in God. But I also believe that many of the things people have been taught about God are lies based on misinformation that carried over from the Classic periods when the ancient Jewish religion blended in with Greek and Roman culture. The problem I've always had with creationist apologists is that they seem stuck on believing that certain things are true just because they believe that they are true. Another example: the creation and age of the universe.

    God as the Creator and absolute authority over all things has allowed an awful lot of bad things to carry on among humanity throughout time. But even 'good' and 'bad' are subjective descriptors---in other words, mere points of view. The Christian churches have collectively been behind more war, bloodshed, and privation than any single government or political entity that has ever existed. And they can justify these things with excerpts from the Bible, which tell stories about God and his angels leading the Israelites successfully into battle. But was this divine rectitude, justice, favoritism, or bullying? The point is not about choosing one of these four options but realizing that perhaps God didn't have anything to do with any of it at all. The corpus of my argument in this thread is embodied in the preceding sentence. This is the reason that materialist philosophy has always dominated and directed the attitude and behavior of most people---even the ones who claim to be righteous.
    i think Bill Maher is a prick, but he did a great job with Religilous. The talk about The Book Of Osiris and how closely related the story of Horus and Jesus are is a trip.

    I don't tout myself as an atheist. Because they believe there is no God. Honestly, i have no idea what there is. The fact is, i don't care enough to find out. I like to learn about history, but again, to worry about why I am here as a point of validation is ridiculous.

    I'm glad we can all speak about this with civility. I have had discussions about this where i speak my views and the zealots go crazy cause they can't speak a rational thought when faced with a question that might prove their theories wrong.

    And again, I don't think I'm right. I have no idea. I just have more important things to worry about.

    One of my biggest issues with people of the church are the ones who are so stupid in thinking its ok for men like Creflo Dollar, Eddie Long, Bennie Hin and other 'businessmen' to take every last dollar they have by giving them false hope to thinking that is their way to the promise land. Like how can you not think a "man of God" driving a 450K Rolls Royce is a bad thing?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinga View Post
    Here's a little something Bill Maher said that I found interesting

    " Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!
    Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas.
    And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you you don't.
    How can I be so sure? Because I don't know either, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not" Bill Maher
    funny i just mentioned his crazy ass. Like i said, he's an asshole (maybe why i like him) but he makes alot of great points in this movie and his thoughts (or someones) on religion.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJH90210 View Post
    i think Bill Maher is a prick, but he did a great job with Religilous. The talk about The Book Of Osiris and how closely related the story of Horus and Jesus are is a trip.

    I don't tout myself as an atheist. Because they believe there is no God. Honestly, i have no idea what there is. The fact is, i don't care enough to find out. I like to learn about history, but again, to worry about why I am here as a point of validation is ridiculous.

    I'm glad we can all speak about this with civility. I have had discussions about this where i speak my views and the zealots go crazy cause they can't speak a rational thought when faced with a question that might prove their theories wrong.

    And again, I don't think I'm right. I have no idea. I just have more important things to worry about.

    One of my biggest issues with people of the church are the ones who are so stupid in thinking its ok for men like Creflo Dollar, Eddie Long, Bennie Hin and other 'businessmen' to take every last dollar they have by giving them false hope to thinking that is their way to the promise land. Like how can you not think a "man of God" driving a 450K Rolls Royce is a bad thing?
    (Haven't figured out how to copy sentence fragments in here yet...)

    "..... to realize why I am here as a point of validation is ridiculous." .....

    I need to call you out on that one bro...

    "TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE".... Thats why.

    .... YOU ARE HERE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE... AS YOU DO EVERY DAY THAT YOU LOG ONTO THIS SITE.

    (SORRY TO GO ALL "DAHLI LAMA" AND "GHANDI" AND SHIT, ON YOUR ASS)

  22. #22
    Junior Bodybuilder BimmerDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJH90210 View Post
    One of my biggest issues with people of the church are the ones who are so stupid in thinking its ok for men like Creflo Dollar, Eddie Long, Bennie Hin and other 'businessmen' to take every last dollar they have by giving them false hope to thinking that is their way to the promise land. Like how can you not think a "man of God" driving a 450K Rolls Royce is a bad thing?
    This is one of the most fascinating (and most dangerous) things about organized religion--- the way it is used to exploit and manipulate people. If you can scare people into believing stuff made up about gods and goddesses then you can get their obedience and their money. Its the most successful racket ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerDude View Post
    This is one of the most fascinating (and most dangerous) things about organized religion--- the way it is used to exploit and manipulate people. If you can scare people into believing stuff made up about gods and goddesses then you can get their obedience and their money. Its the most successful racket ever!
    no shit. I'm really just jealous that i didn't think of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pickle bunny View Post
    The Lord saved me. Flat out. I was dying twice and HE alone rescued me from circumstances I could never alter.

    I fully believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and have seen His glory. I have held people dying in my arms feeling their body getting colder and colder only to watch HIM bring them back. I have been directly beside 4 shootouts and never been hit.
    I own the war lords buildings in the slum not because I am anything special but because the real Lord assigned me to help His precious people by using these resourses to His glory.
    Every building around us has been hit by bullets except ours. Even the gangs give us distance and respect because they watched with their own eyes their leader be removed and the Lord's desire take away all that they had. It is not us it is HIM who made these things happen. The Glory alone belongs to the Lord.
    Man I tell you this with all certinty....
    There is never a day I don't believe in the Lord or thank Him for His blessings.


    Faith is all about building a relationship with your creator. Its not about big churches or fine cars or pulpit draaaayma. Listen there will always be counterfiets and imposters.
    But there will always be people who are the real deal when it comes to faith and
    leading people to a better relationship with their Lord.

    I have seen the Lord's hand and it is unspeakbly kind. I have watched His forgiveness and restoration in my life and hundreds of others and it is the sweetest of all gifts.
    this is the role of religion in our society...

    giving people peace and hope...

    unfortunately.. most people dont even know the history of their own faith... shit pisses me off...

    i call them armchair christians... what a joke


    regardless of alll that... well said...
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    Moderator Mr P's Avatar
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    Picklebunny,
    You're story is very moving.
    I don't disagree that the Lord exists, you're a good human being, and I don't deny the Lord was with you in all those moments in your life, and that he was prtecting you and still does.

    I do wonder why the Lord doesn't stop so many disaster & horrible things that are happening around the world... and why do inocent kids die from cancer everyday, While allowing good things to happen to bad people.

    I've known some exceptional human beings, That were not necessarily religious, and some that were & were inspired by God.

    What I mean is, whatever inspires you to be a better person and a better humanitarian you should stick with it.
    You don't necessarily have to be a church goer, or belong to any organized religion to be a good person.

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