[grafixLSUalum]

Thanks wood from AF

=============================================
Suppression of Lactation:

When the mother chooses not to breast feed or the baby is lost, suppression of lactation may be required. Initially the breasts get engorged, however in the absence of suckling further milk production stops on its own. Firm support to the breasts is helpful in reducing the discomfort. Manual expression is not very helpful as it promotes further milk secretion. Estrogens in high doses can suppress lactation, however there are side effects and the risk of venous thrombosis, hence these are not recommended. Bromocryptine, a dopamine agonist, given 2.5 mg twice a day for 14 days can suppress lactation by producing a fall in prolactin levels. This therapy is expensive, has side effects and there may be rebound lactation once the drug is stopped. FDA no longer approves it. Pyridoxine – Vitamin B6, given 200 mg three times a day for 5-7 days is quite effective in suppressing lactation and the drug has no side effects.
================================================
Got Wood? note : adding Bromo to your cycle only adds to the potential anabolic cascade, and potentially negative drug interactions. In medicine B6 is supposed to be as effective as Bromo. Plus vitamin B6 has few side effects.
Here are a few of many studies supporting the use of Vitamin B6 in reducing prolactin:
======================================
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1976 Mar;42(3):603-6


Effect of pyridoxine on human hypophyseal trophic hormone release: a possible stimulation of hypothalamic dopaminergic pathway.

Delitala G, Masala A, Alagna S, Devilla L.

A single dose of pyridoxine (300 mg iv) produced significant rises in peak levels of immunoreactive growth hormone GH and significant decrease of plasma prolactin PRL in 8 hospitalized healthy subjects. Serum glucose, luteinizing hormone LH, follicle stimulating hormone FSH and thyrotropin TSH were not altered significantly. In addition, in 5 acromegalic patients who were studied with both L-dopa and pyridoxine, inhibition of GH secretion followed either agent in a similar pattern. These data suggest a hypothalamic dopaminergic effect of pyridoxine.

===============================
N Engl J Med 1982 Aug 12;307(7):444-5

Pyridoxine (B6) suppresses the rise in prolactin and increases the rise in growth hormone induced by exercise.

Moretti C, Fabbri A, Gnessi L, Bonifacio V, Fraioli F, Isidori A.

=====================================
Boll Soc Ital Biol Sper 1984 Feb 28;60(2):273-8

[Influence of administration of pyridoxine on circadian rhythm of plasma ACTH, cortisol prolactin and somatotropin in normal subjects]

[Article in Italian]

Barletta C, Sellini M, Bartoli A, Bigi C, Buzzetti R, Giovannini C.

The influence of vitamin B6 in a dosage of 300 mg X 2 in 24 hrs, on circadian rhythm of plasmatic ACTH, cortisol, prolactin and somatotropin have been studied in 10 normal women. After vitamin B6 24 hrs pattern of ACTH and cortisol is unchanged; prolactin levels are slightly lower, in a statistically unsignificant proportion the night peak of growth hormone is higher in a statistically significant proportion (p. 0.05). The effect of vitamin B6 is likely to me mediated by dopaminergic receptors at hypothalamic level as previous studies by other Authors appear to prove.
====================================

[Billy_Bathgate]

I saw that the other day and though it was interesting as well.

[natty]

yes but do they make an injectable b6? because in the study they used IV administered so I doubt orally taken b6 would have even 1/3 the effect.

[T_MAN]

thats an interesting read bro

[hhajdo]

As long as you keep your estrogen levels under control, you don't need to worry about prolactin.



Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1982 Nov;17(5):495-9 Related Articles, Links


Hydrotestolactone lowers serum oestradiol and PRL levels in normal men: evidence of a role of oestradiol in prl secretion.

D'Agata R, Aliffi A, Maugeri G, Mongioi A, Vicari E, Gulizia S, Polosa P.

The effect on serum PRL levels of lowering serum oestradiol (E2) concentration by short-term administration of an aromatase activity inhibitor, hydrotestolactone (HT), was studied in six healthy male subjects. After HT administration serum E2 levels decreased from 68 +/- 5.8 to 26 +/- 2.5 pmol/l (mean +/- SE, P less than 0.05). These E2 changes were accompanied by a significant decrease in mean 2-h PRL levels from 11.2 +/- 2.1 to 6.5 +/- 1.6 ng/ml mean +/- SE, P less than 0.05) . The evaluation of individual percentage change from basal concentrations showed a varying decrease in all subjects. These findings suggest that under physiological conditions E2 may be one of the factors which control blood PRL concentrations in men.

---------------------------------------

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1984 Feb;105(2):167-72

Testosterone-induced hyperprolactinaemia in a patient with a disturbance of hypothalamo-pituitary regulation.

Nicoletti I, Filipponi P, Fedeli L, Ambrosi F, Gregorini G, Santeusanio F.

A case of a patient with hypopituitarism due to a disturbance of hypothalamo-pituitary regulation is presented, who developed high-grade hyperprolactinaemia after the initiation of substitutive therapy with testosterone esthers.The increase in serum Prl was strictly related to testosterone aromatization to oestradiol, since anti-oestrogen compounds were effective in reducing (clomiphene) or abolishing (tamoxifen) the enhanced Prl secretion. The oestrogen effect in raising Prl release was not attributable to a reduction in the dopamine inhibition of Prl-secreting cells, as the dopamine-antagonist domperidone failed to increase Prl serum levels in the same patient. This suggests that, in man, the oestrogen effect in enhancing Prl release is mainly enacted directly on the pituitary lactotrophs rather than exerted through a reduction in the hypothalamic dopamine activity

-------------------------------------

Effect of androgenic anabolic steroids on sperm quality and serum hormone levels in adult male bodybuilders.

Torres-Calleja J, Gonzalez-Unzaga M, DeCelis-Carrillo R, Calzada-Sanchez L, Pedron N.

Unidad de Investigacion Medica en Biologia de la Reproduccion, Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social, Mexico, DF.

The purpose of this study was to assess the influence of the administration of high doses of androgenic anabolic steroids (AAS) on endocrine and semen parameters. Thirty volunteering bodybuilders were studied (ages ranging between 26.6 +/- 4.1 years). A history of anabolic steroid administration was recorded for fifteen subjects, and results of semen analysis and endocrine parameters were compared with data from fifteen bodybuilders not using steroids. In those subjects using AAS, eight had sperm counts under the lower normal limit (20 x 10(6) sperm/ml), three had azoospermia, two polyzoospermia, and two had normal sperm counts. The percentage of morphologically normal sperm was significantly reduced, only 17.7% had normal spermatozoa. In the control group, only one subject had oligozoospermia.The hormonal parameters revealed reduced FSH (1.5 +/- 3.2 vs 5.0 +/- 1.6, p < 0.001) and PRL (5.1 +/- 4.9 vs 9.2 +/- 4.4, p < 0.01) levels. LH, T, E2 and DHEA levels did not vary.

-------------------------------------










BTW, I've seen a few studies which suggest that St. John's wort lowers PRL:

Neuroendocrine evidence for dopaminergic actions of hypericum extract (LI 160) in healthy volunteers.

Franklin M, Chi J, McGavin C, Hockney R, Reed A, Campling G, Whale RW, Cowen PJ.

University Department of Psychiatry, Warneford Hospital, Oxford, UK.

BACKGROUND: We studied the effect of a single dose of a formulation of a methanolic extract of Hypericum perforatum (HP), also known as St. John's wort, on plasma concentrations of growth hormone (GH), prolactin (PRL), and cortisol (CORT) in 12 healthy male volunteers. METHODS: Subjects received 9 tablets of the finished product Jarsin 300 and placebo in a double-blind, balanced-order, cross-over design. RESULTS: Following HP relative to placebo, there was a significant increase in plasma GH and a significant decrease in plasma PRL. Plasma CORT levels were unchanged. CONCLUSIONS: Taken together with data from animal experimental studies, the findings suggest that this dose of HP may increase some aspects of brain dopamine function in humans.


------------------------------

J Psychopharmacol 2000;14(4):360-3 Related Articles, Links


Acute effects of LI 160 (extract of Hypericum perforatum, St John's wort) and two of its constituents on neuroendocrine responses in the rat.

Franklin M, Chi JD, Mannel M, Cowen PJ.

University Department of Psychiatry, Warneford Hospital, Oxford, UK. michael.franklin@psych.ox.ac.uk

Extracts of Hypericum perforatum (St John's wort), such as LI 160, which are effective antidepressants have several active constituents. Their mode of action in depression, however, is unclear. In the present investigation, we assessed the effect of equivalent doses of LI 160 and two of its components, hypericin and hyperforin on serotonin (5-HT) and dopamine (DA)-mediated neuroendocrine responses in the rat. LI 160, hypericin and hyperforin significantly and equivalently increased plasma corticosterone. This effect was blocked by ketanserin but not WAY-100635, suggesting mediation via 5-HT2 receptors. LI 160 also lowered plasma prolactin and prevented the increase in plasma prolactin following haloperidol administration. Hyperforin had a similar but somewhat less pronounced effect. We conclude that LI 160, hypericin and hyperforin all increase 5-HT-mediated corticosterone release while LI 160 enhances DA-mediated inhibition of prolactin release. Hyperforin may contribute to the facilitatory effect of LI 160 on DA function, but hypericin does not.

-----------------------------

Pharmacopsychiatry 2001 Jul;34 Suppl 1:S29-37 Related Articles, Links


Researching the antidepressant actions of Hypericum perforatum (St. John's wort) in animals and man.

Franklin M, Cowen PJ.

University of Oxford Department of Psychiatry, Warneford Hospital, UK.

We have studied the effect of acute and sub-chronic treatments of a formulation of a methanolic extract of hypericum perforatum (HP, also known as St John's wort) on plasma hormones and brain neurotransmitters in healthy human volunteers and rats. Also studied were the effects of equivalent acute doses of two constituents of HP (with respect to LI 160 extract), hypericin and hyperforin in rats. In acute treatment studies in normal volunteers subjects received 9 tablets of the finished product Jarsin 300 and placebo in the pilot study (unblinded) and in the main study (a double blind, balanced order, cross-over design). Results in normal volunteer studies show that HP caused significant increases of salivary cortisol and plasma growth hormone (GH) whereas it decreased plasma prolactin versus placebo. Plasma hormone levels were associated with a rise in plasma hyperforin but not with hypericin, however no significant correlation was found. In the animal studies, acute treatment with LI 160, hyperforin and hypericin all caused significant increases in plasma corticosterone. This was associated with significant increases in brain cortical tissue 5-HT content. The corticosterone responses were attenuated by the 5-HT2 receptor antagonist, ketanserin but not by the 5-HT1A antagonist, WAY-100635. This suggests that the corticosterone responses may be mediated via a 5-HT2 mechanism of action. When sub-chronic and acute treatment using two different doses of LI 160 were compared, plasma corticosterone level were significantly decreased. Thus suggesting a down-regulation or desensitisation of post-synaptic 5-HT2 receptors. Plasma prolactin was significantly reduced by acute treatment with LI 160 and hyperforin treatment but not by hypericin. This was associated with a concomitant rise in brain cortical tissue DA. Both LI 160 and hyperforin treatments decreased the plasma prolactin responses to the DA antagonist, haloperidol, suggesting that this may be associated with a DA-mediated mechanisn of action. When acute and sub-chronic treatments were compared, plasma prolactin responses were increased in the sub-chronically treated animals. The studies when taken together suggest that the LI 160 extract may effect plasma hormonal changes via both 5-HT and DA-mediated mechanisms but do not involve noradrenaline (NA). The data also suggests that hyperforin may be more important than hypericin for effecting these changes following acute treatment. Further studies investigating both acute and sub-chronic effects of these compounds are necessary.

[Trenimator76]

Bromocriptine is way better in preventing prolactin. Increase Gh and woodies is another plus.

[grafixLSUalum]

Terminator: right, but B-6 could be an alternatvie, a cheaper, and more readily available one

[hhajdo]

^ for more comments.

[TxLonghorn]

bump

[frotobaggins]

bump

[Nelson Montana]

THe thing is...who's deficient in B6? Likely, nobody.

A standard multiple vit/min has about 500X's the RDA of B6. between an aditional MRP and food, you get more B6 than you can possibly use.

S-ame and pygeum are far more potent choices for supressing prolactin. But prolactin is rarely a problem unless estrogen levels gets ridiculoisly high or low.

[ricosuve]

BUMP^

MORE INFO, THIS VERY INTERESTING STUFF!!!

[Batman]

Originally posted by Nelson Montana
THe thing is...who's deficient in B6? Likely, nobody.

A standard multiple vit/min has about 500X's the RDA of B6. between an aditional MRP and food, you get more B6 than you can possibly use.

S-ame and pygeum are far more potent choices for supressing prolactin. But prolactin is rarely a problem unless estrogen levels gets ridiculoisly high or low.

yea, B6 is everywhere in bb food...

[TxLonghorn]

Originally posted by Nelson Montana
THe thing is...who's deficient in B6? Likely, nobody.

A standard multiple vit/min has about 500X's the RDA of B6. between an aditional MRP and food, you get more B6 than you can possibly use.

S-ame and pygeum are far more potent choices for supressing prolactin. But prolactin is rarely a problem unless estrogen levels gets ridiculoisly high or low.

This isn't a question of b6 deficiency. It's a problem with prolactin suppression. This is like reading a post that bromocriptine can suppress prolactin and exclaiming, 'Yeah, but how many are bromo-deficient?' Obviously the b6 is doing something, and not all people have a prolactin problem, so maybe there is an inefficiency these people have with processing b6. Or maybe mega doses of it have a drug like effect. Also, 600mg of b6 is off the charts when it comes to the rda. Another thing, the rda is not the optimum level of a vitamin or mineral, but the amount to not have a deficiency.

These doctors noted that there were no sides attributed to this kind of therapy as opposed to using bromo. Frankly, I am surprised by your response. I can understand if you have some doubts, but to dismiss it when it has been shown to work, is cheaper, easier to get than bromo, and less side is a bit odd.

[TxLonghorn]

Originally posted by Batman
yea, B6 is everywhere in bb food...

Again, this isn't if you have the us rda of b6, which btw is only 2mg. We are talking way beyond that.

There must be something to it if doctors say it works.

[rpwhit777]

Originally posted by hhajdo
As long as you keep your estrogen levels under control, you don't need to worry about prolactin.

What about stories of guys lactating and developing gyno from drugs that dont necessarilly convert to estrogen at all... I have a buddy who was squeezing some shit from his nips on a anadrol, primobolan cycle...And supposedly they dont convert to estrogen..So how would this stand up to your statement??? I want to learn something here!!



GRafix by the way great post bro...interesting stuff!!!!

[DADAWG]

Originally posted by TxLonghorn
600mg of b6 is off the charts when it comes to the rda. Another thing, the rda is not the optimum level of a vitamin or mineral, but the amount to not have a deficiency.

if im not mistaken these rda have been around for decades and if so i highly doubt their accuracy . also how in the hell could a 80 year old woman have the same needs as far as vitamins and minerals as a 300 pound athlete it just doesnt make sense . another thing to consider is that our food only has a fraction of the vitamins and minerals as it did 50 years ago . we have farmed the ground year after year only adding ammonia nitrate and lime to replace nutrients harvested with the food . that being said we probably need somewhere between the rda and 600 mg . since the b vitamins are water soluable any excess will be flushed from the body eventually

[StoneColdNTO]

This is a very interesting thread. Tx had mentioned this about B6 in a thread a few weeks ago, I had never heard it before and obviously missed this thread.

Now for some first-hand experience...............

I am very sensitive to gyno from Tren and Deca. The only time I tried Tren, I got gyno symptoms at 75mg EOD and had to stop. I've run Deca at 300mg/wk and got symptoms to, but had Winny and it helped, but not with my lipid profile.......LOL

I had just started some NPP @ 100mg E3D and my nips started getting puffy, that's when I saw Tx talking about this B6, so I figured , why not give it a try. I started taking 200mg 3X/day. Well, low and behold, my puffy nips went back to nornal. Since then I have upped the NPP to 100mg EOD, and still no problems...."knocks on wood"......

Not saying it's a cure for everyone, but for the price of some B6, it's definitely worth a shot......

[Batman]

Originally posted by TxLonghorn
Again, this isn't if you have the us rda of b6, which btw is only 2mg. We are talking way beyond that.

There must be something to it if doctors say it works.

Well, the study posted here does not say the guys tested were having a nutrition rich in B6. All they were supplementing is what is told in the study. I simply think that a normal bb is very close to have those amount of B6 only by eating at a normal bb regimen with proper supplementation (ZMA, multivitamin, protein powders etc.)

[TxLonghorn]

Originally posted by Batman
Well, the study posted here does not say the guys tested were having a nutrition rich in B6. All they were supplementing is what is told in the study. I simply think that a normal bb is very close to have those amount of B6 only by eating at a normal bb regimen with proper supplementation (ZMA, multivitamin, protein powders etc.)

Ok, you are missing the point totally on this. We aren't saying that everybody should supplement with b6 at these levels, only if you are having prolactin problems.

If we were discussing amounts bbers get from diet, you would be incredibly wrong assuming they get anywhere close to 600mg/day of b6. But we aren't discussing that. Btw, a very high dose multi b vitamin will only give you 100mg of b6. A pound of steak will give you 2.5mg of b6. Soooo, giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying you take a b vitamin, you would have to eat 200lbs of meat/day to get the 600mg of b6 we are talking here. But like I siad above, we aren't trying for the rda or to cure a deficiency, but to use the b6 like a drug.

Nelson, what are your problems with this, I think you missed the point as well.

B6 at mega doses has been shown to have similar beneficial effects as bromo, with none of the sides. Combine that with cost (~$3 for weeks worth), availability (Wally World), and now stonecold's experience...and you have some mighty good reasons to try it.

I've got a little bit of fina left that I couldn't use because of gyno problems that nolva couldn't help but bromo did. I hated bromo though. I'm going to check this out as well.

[Batman]

Originally posted by TxLonghorn
Ok, you are missing the point totally on this. We aren't saying that everybody should supplement with b6 at these levels, only if you are having prolactin problems.

If we were discussing amounts bbers get from diet, you would be incredibly wrong assuming they get anywhere close to 600mg/day of b6. But we aren't discussing that. Btw, a very high dose multi b vitamin will only give you 100mg of b6. A pound of steak will give you 2.5mg of b6. Soooo, giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying you take a b vitamin, you would have to eat 200lbs of meat/day to get the 600mg of b6 we are talking here. But like I siad above, we aren't trying for the rda or to cure a deficiency, but to use the b6 like a drug.

Nelson, what are your problems with this, I think you missed the point as well.

B6 at mega doses has been shown to have similar beneficial effects as bromo, with none of the sides. Combine that with cost (~$3 for weeks worth), availability (Wally World), and now stonecold's experience...and you have some mighty good reasons to try it.

I've got a little bit of fina left that I couldn't use because of gyno problems that nolva couldn't help but bromo did. I hated bromo though. I'm going to check this out as well.

Ok, you are right, I missed the fact that doses of B6 in multivitamins are way lower than suggested doses here in the study.

[DUANABOL]

Originally posted by hhajdo
As long as you keep your estrogen levels under control, you don't need to worry about prolactin.

I agree with this 100%! Control the estrogen and you will not have any nasty prolactin sides from things like Deca. I know this to be true from personal trial & error cycles.

[DrJMW]

Most of you do not understand the action of prolactin in the body and its relationship to progesterone (a hormone that stimulates prolactin release). Anadrol, DECA, FINA, and Tren cause elevated prolactin levels. None of these drugs aromatize or affect estrogen levels. They do stimulate progesterone release. Increased progesterone will cause an increase of prolactin. Increased estrogen levels can also stimulate increased prolactin levels. Prolactin stimulates the glandular tissue in the male breast. This is what causes the lactation and other gyno-like symptoms.

When a user uses Testsoterone and an anti-e, he keeps his estrogen levels in check, and suffers no estrogenic or prolactin sides. When a user uses DECA, FINA, TREN or Anadrol, he may increase his prolactin levels. Bromo was a first-generation drug of choice for lowering prolactin levels with BB'ers. The problem with Bromo is proper dosing and the nasty side effects. Then along came Dostinex. It was easier to dose and it had no sides. Both of these drugs directly inhibit prolactin. Stanozolol or Winstrol also inhibits prolactin, but it does it differently. Winstrol blocks progesterone receptors. By doing so, it inhibits prolactin. While Dostinex is the safest way to control Prolactin, it is the most expensive. My next choice would be to use low-dose Winstrol (50mg, Mon, Wed, Fri) with my DECA, FINA/Tren, or Anadrol. You know the problems with Winstrol, but if the cycle is eight weeks or less, you will be OK. Also, I have found that if one keeps his weekly DECA dosing below 400mg weekly that Proalctin doesn't seem to be a problem. The important thing is to keep prolactin and estrogen under control during one's cycles.

[TxLonghorn]

Originally posted by DUANABOL
I agree with this 100%! Control the estrogen and you will not have any nasty prolactin sides from things like Deca. I know this to be true from personal trial & error cycles.

I know this to NOT be true from personal trial & error cycles.

[rpwhit777]

Originally posted by DrJMW
Most of you do not understand the action of prolactin in the body and its relationship to progesterone (a hormone that stimulates prolactin release). Anadrol, DECA, FINA, and Tren cause elevated prolactin levels. None of these drugs aromatize or affect estrogen levels. They do stimulate progesterone release. Increased progesterone will cause an increase of prolactin. Increased estrogen levels can also stimulate increased prolactin levels. Prolactin stimulates the glandular tissue in the male breast. This is what causes the lactation and other gyno-like symptoms.

When a user uses Testsoterone and an anti-e, he keeps his estrogen levels in check, and suffers no estrogenic or prolactin sides. When a user uses DECA, FINA, TREN or Anadrol, he may increase his prolactin levels. Bromo was a first-generation drug of choice for lowering prolactin levels with BB'ers. The problem with Bromo is proper dosing and the nasty side effects. Then along came Dostinex. It was easier to dose and it had no sides. Both of these drugs directly inhibit prolactin. Stanozolol or Winstrol also inhibits prolactin, but it does it differently. Winstrol blocks progesterone receptors. By doing so, it inhibits prolactin. While Dostinex is the safest way to control Prolactin, it is the most expensive. My next choice would be to use low-dose Winstrol (50mg, Mon, Wed, Fri) with my DECA, FINA/Tren, or Anadrol. You know the problems with Winstrol, but if the cycle is eight weeks or less, you will be OK. Also, I have found that if one keeps his weekly DECA dosing below 400mg weekly that Proalctin doesn't seem to be a problem. The important thing is to keep prolactin and estrogen under control during one's cycles.

Awesome info brotha that pretty much answers my question from above!!!!!!!!!