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  1. #1
    Steelers = SuperBowl BiggieSwolls's Avatar
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    HGH -- Timing of inject discussion
    Ok, its been brought up many times before and there is really never a strong concensus as to when the best time to take your HGH shots is. Hopefully, we can get a good discussion going here and try to nail down a few things and thus, we will have an archived thread to post a link to whenever a similar question comes up.

    Now I have heard that IronMaster likes to have his shots split up, 2 shots a day. I believe Needsize told me that Ironmaster recommends a morning shot and a bedtime shot.

    Then on the other hand, I remember Jyzza posting in a thread that when he talked to IFBB Pro Tom Prince that Tom told him that he shoots his GH all in one shot right before bed.

    Then I apporached Henderson Thorne today. For those who do not know of him, Henderson is an IFBB Pro who was pretty popular and succcessful in competitions in the early 90's. Henderson told me with no hesitation that I should shoot my GH all in one shot right before bed. Unfortunately I didnt have time to chat with him longer to hear his reasonings.

    But back to the Tom Prince thing. Tom Prince works with Chad Nicholls. As most may know, Chad Nicholls is pretty much "the man" when it comes to dialing people in for competitions and has been called "the drug guru" by many people in the industry. What Im trying to get at here is that it is a pretty damn good bet that Chad also employs the "all in one, bedtime" shot for GH or you can bet that Tom Prince wouldnt be doing it that way.

    I do understand that Pro's are Pro's because they work extremely hard and have insane genetics. In fact, a lot of them are not very savvy when it comes to drug usage and such. So Im not saying that just because two Pro's have stated that they take their GH before bed therefore that must be the way to do it optimally. What Im saying is that their approaches are either conceived through experience and/or a knowledgable "drug guru" guiding them ie. Chad Nicholls.

    So I guess what Im asking is lets here what way you prefer and why you choose your method of administration. Lets see some studies, etc...

    It would be great if we could nail this down, lets work together on this one.

  2. #2
    Community Veteran JohnnyB's Avatar
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    I do mine before bed, I do have low hGH/IGF-1 but even if I didn't, I'd go at the same time. The body was designed to use to bulk of it's hGH while we sleep so it would seem to me that is the best time to use it.

    JohnnyB

  3. #3
    Amateur Bodybuilder HGH Man's Avatar
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    I'm with JohnnyB . I do my HGH before bedtime occasionally I try a shot in the morning too but only when I'm to tired to take it at night. I read my the instuctions that came with my HGH cartridges and it says before bed is the best time to administer. But there are those that are on HGH and off to gain lean muscle and burn fat . I'd say for those people it is alright to take it in the morning and at night. They are not on HGH all year like myself.

  4. #4
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    I have done it a few different ways. 4IU's before bed was better for fat loss for me, while cutting than 6IU's split in 2. Doing 6Iu's split in 2 now while bulking. Once in the morning the other at bed. I have done 4IU's before bed while bulking and I cannot tell a difference in the 2. BTW, been on GH for 13 months and I am 24. Cycled most of the time on GH.

  5. #5
    Community Veteran needsize's Avatar
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    I think IM actually said once in the morning and the other 1/2 way through the day, thats the way I;ve been doing it and the second shot just happens to be right after my workout
    needsize@*****************

    My trainer

  6. #6
    BAMF
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    upon waking in the morning in my opinion because you gh levels in your body are at their lowest, of break up shots half in am and half mid afternoon.

  7. #7
    MxLongHorn Mex Rookie's Avatar
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    I'm looking for the article I read on GH production in your body. But it said the same thisn stated here before, "The body was designed to use to bulk of it's hGH while we sleep" that is why you are depleted in the morning. I have been using Serostim for the past month and I can really tell all the fat loss.
    The owner of the gym I go to uses it also and he recommends a shot at noon, but then again, I think he didn;t base his recommendation on anything. Just because that is how he uses it.

  8. #8
    Novice Dizzy's Avatar
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    Nandi12 says that nightly injections are more anabolic. He provided a study...but I can't seem to find it now. That's when I've been doing mine is at night....but I just started.

  9. #9
    Novice Dizzy's Avatar
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    Interesting thread on the matter:

    http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/For...?threadid=4341
    corefetti likes this.

  10. #10
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    i believe a little of both ways is best!! if you are useing it to bulk your prolly in the 8iu a day range. this is were i believe it would be best to spilt it up in to morning and pre-bedtime. for fat loss you will use less so i would suggest before bedtime only in this case!!

  11. #11
    Community Veteran hhajdo's Avatar
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  12. #12
    Pro Bodybuilder raw lifter's Avatar
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    I was always told to do an am shot (when levels are at thier lowest) and a pm shot 2hrs before bed time (gh has a 2hr half life) thus taking advantage of our own natural gh production while we sleep.....now I believe supergirl said that syn gh will keep your natty levels suppressed for 72hrs....how is that if it only has a 2hr half life??

    I have a decent article I'm trying to dig up give me a few.

  13. #13
    Pro Bodybuilder raw lifter's Avatar
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    I wish I knew who wrote this





    Growth Hormone usage requires time exhaustive study, but a quick guide may start here. GH actually works by releasing IGF1 in the liver. It is used medically in children who are hypo-pitutary affected, resulting in stunted growth. If is more and more being used to counter wasting diseases (AIDS, cancer)
    along with Anabolic Steroids (AS). Also rejuvination and age/youth restoration are becoming popular rationalization
    for using gh; as it is reported to cause skin, hair, nails, to be age resistant upon gh use, along with restored overall vigor.

    The powdered wafer must be refridgerated immediately following reconstitution with sterile or bacteriostatic water.
    The gh amino peptide molecules are quite large and are easily 'torn' apart if not refridgerated and treated very carefully and delicately. When mixing the powder and the water it must be stirred/swirled-not vigirously shaken, which would break apart the 191 amino acid sequence. It has been found that a branch of the gh molecule can be used for strictly fat loss, and this is currently being studied. Normal endogenious production begins to decline at 25-30YO.
    Therefore it is not usually recommended for those younger than that, who are likely not as advanced in their performance enhancing drug program anyway. GH is for the advanced, experienced user.

    Daily doseages are used from 2iu and up to 20iu. Normal effective doseage is probably 4-6iu ED. Duration of a cycle is based on money available (take it as long as you can afford it!). But it should be used at least 8-12 weeks. It also appears that the fat burning effect of gh may continue past the stopage of the drugs for several weeks. Humetrope (81-90iu vials/kit) is probably the most expensive; with Equigen (210iu vial) being the least expensive. All being considered it is not a cost effective drug, and money would be spent most wisely with AS products alone. If there is excess funds gh purchase can be considered. Normal administration is to
    inject Subq several times (2-4x) ED, as opposed to IM injections. This will delay the absorption and extend the life of the drug, which is only about 2hrs. Endogenious peak levels are found during the first hours of sleep. For this reason recommended times of administration would be waking AM hours, and at least 2-4hrs before bedtime. This will hopefully keep the peak release of the body normal and intact, assuming the feedback system for gh is not drastically altered by exogenious doseages. If used with insulin one of the injections of the day should be done post-workout.


    Side effects include water retention in the extremeties, Carpal Tunel Syndrome like symptoms. These sides will normally cease several weeks after the administration of gh is ended. Possible permanent effects are Type II Diabetes, acgromegely of the bones in the hands feet and face (as would occur in gigantisism, a disease caused by hyper-pituitary excess production of gh). GH may cause insulin desensitivity. Glucophage may be taken to increase
    the insulin sensitivity in the user, countering the negative effect of the gh. Some say it decreases Thyroid output also,
    but the distinct fat burning effect of gh questions the relevance of this claim. Gh is best used with insulin and
    Anabolic Steroids (AS). This will cause a synergistic effect of all the drugs used, a very powerful bulking cycle (possibly
    with less fat retention from high caloric intake, than would be possible without gh) for the advanced user. If no insulin use is desired, gh can be used with AS, and with added glucophage if desired. This will cause little if any bulk gains past what would be realized with just the AS alone, but with a more quality, cut, look. You should use AS with gh; however some may use gh alone during a short bridge peroid when off AS, in order to retain mass gain on the previous AS cycle. So, basically gh is not a good bulking drug in itself. It is
    a very good cutting drug and in addition to AS and insulin is part of a great bulking stack.

    This is a simple guide to gh use, surely exclusions have been made. Extensive self-study is also required for the use of the advanced sports drug.
    villonec, corefetti and macgiver51 like this.

  14. #14
    Steelers = SuperBowl BiggieSwolls's Avatar
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    Originally posted by hhajdo
    Insulin shot and timing with GH?
    Nice thread. I dont know how I missed that.

    So is there still a strong belief that exoGH doesnt supress natural GH until about 4-6 hours after exoGH administration?

    If so then for the user taking who is only taking one GH shot per day, bed time would be a good choice to take your shot.

  15. #15
    Olympian Bodybuilder LAWNSAVER's Avatar
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    Good thread!!

    This is something of great debate.

    I would like to see some research on the differences.

    I believe that the insert says take before bed, but I think it really it to target AIDS pateints, whos pituitary doesnt produce it anymore.

    If the half life is only 2-3 hours, it would only make sense to take it multiple times a day, BUT...

    If we do most of our repairing of muscles and other body function while we sleep, it would then make sense to take it all at night.

    Here is another question...

    Would it be possible to trigger a natural GH release with an OTC supplement a night and use the synthetic during the day??

    Is there any OTC GH analogs that actually work??

    Lets keep this thread going!

  16. #16
    Pro Bodybuilder raw lifter's Avatar
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    Originally posted by LAWNSAVER
    Would it be possible to trigger a natural GH release with an OTC supplement a night and use the synthetic during the day??
    I thought ALA was supposed to mimic and or release natty gh.

  17. #17
    Olympian Bodybuilder LAWNSAVER's Avatar
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    Originally posted by raw lifter 1
    I thought ALA was supposed to mimic and or release natty gh.
    I dont think so...

    I was actaully talking about the ProGH products and Arginine

  18. #18
    Pro Bodybuilder raw lifter's Avatar
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    Bump^

  19. #19
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    good info fellas. ima stick with two injections ed one in the mid morning and one a couple hours before bed. multiple injections just seems more logical to me.

  20. #20
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    nice write up RAW!! great info. for everyone~

  21. #21
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    Well, Biggie........I pretty much already made my argument on this topic in that old Steroidology thread that was cited above. That was an excellent discussion with some smart people who showed mutual respect for one another's opinion. That thread caused me to sink an anchor here at this well-run forum.

    Not much has changed in the science since then, so the issue still centers around three questions. There is no doubt that exoGH suppresses endoGH production. But how much and for how long? Not to disagree with the famous people you mentioned, but it seems to me that the case for night time injections comes from science involving the study of people with non-functioning pituitary glands. Of course, these people would want to inject before bed, because the largest percentage of endoGH is produced during REM sleep. This would be in keeping with the body's natural rhythms.

    I prefer the AM/late afternoon approach, because these are times when our natural production of endoGH is nil. Even though there may be some lingering suppression by bedtime, it is not complete suppression for sure. This allows us to utilize endoGH at it's peak production time and maximize results. More bang for the buck, and exoGH ain't cheap.

    And then there is the insulin problem. ExoGH causes insulin resistance. If you are moderately hypoglycemic while asleep, you won't get the most from the GH. And if you use insulin, like I do, to compliment the GH, bedtime is out of the question. If you don't use insulin, then bedtime may be OK.

    Here's the kicker. I now use Nutropin Depot exclusively, so all the "time to inject" arguments are null and void. As you know, Depot releases gradually for 30 days after injecting. This dramatically changes the way I use insulin as well. I have found that modest doses of timed release all-day insulins are best with Depot.
    Last edited by ironmaster; 12-09-2003 at 06:24 AM.

  22. #22
    Community Veteran house1's Avatar
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    great stuff guys

  23. #23
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    Ironmaster, if i'm gonna take 6-9 iu's/day with slin(Humalog), would it be a good idea to split my dose into 3 shots either 2 iu/3 x day or 3 iu/ 3 x day, the first two shots with my slin shots(upon waking and post workout), then take the last dose before bed. would this be good idea, if not let me know the best way to, split those doses with my slin as well. last cycle i slpit 4.5 iu's twice a day with my slin shots.
    thanks-Swoll1
    p.s. -i sent u a pm a few days ago about this, so if u would rather answer this through pm it would be cool. either way thanks.

  24. #24
    Owns QualityMuscle.com Jyzza's Avatar
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    Biggie....I set next to Tom Prince during the Olympia 2003.....I asked him if he remembered me....lol....I said I was the kid asking you all this shit about HGH....lol....

    Then we went to a table in the VIP section and we got to talk for 10min or so.....Tom is a very nice guy....he seems very honest.....he told me he rather tell me the truth and the correct way so I don't end up fucking up my body....

    He told me the exact same thing what he said before....

    He does 4ius of HGH at night time...on bulking cycles......on comp prep he does 6ius before bed time...

    He said why would you waste your HGH during the day if at that time you don’t use it….
    You only use it at night to repair and grow your muscles….

    Then he also said he cycles 6 ON 3-4 off…..on the off time he uses Clomid, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), sometimes some Nolvadex….I’m sure he also throws in there some insulin but he said he doesn’t use slin that much….
    I had a very good time talking to him there…..I also saw Chris Cook..he sat right in front of me…nice guy also….
    arm wrestler likes this.

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by sonis9
    i believe a little of both ways is best!! if you are useing it to bulk your prolly in the 8iu a day range. this is were i believe it would be best to spilt it up in to morning and pre-bedtime. for fat loss you will use less so i would suggest before bedtime only in this case!!
    WOW 8 IU's

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