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  1. #1
    Olympian Bodybuilder LAWNSAVER's Avatar
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    Default Conventional PCT Doses and Duration
    Basic post cycle therapy (pct) doses and duration.

    The first thing that needs attention is the testicle. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is needed to prevent testicular atrophy. 300-500ius every 4-5 days throughout a cycle will do the trick. IF you have waited until the end to fix the problem, take 500ius ED for the last 14-21 days of your cycle. After the testicles are taken care of we can work on restarting the HPTA. Here are a few ways in which you can address the problem.

    SERMs have been documented in studies, personal experience, and real world feed back to aid in restarting the HPTA

    NOTE: SERMs will not work on all, so I will try and give alternatives later in the thread.

    Basic Clomid post cycle therapy (pct):
    Day 1: 300mg
    Day 2 to 10: 100mg ED
    Day 11 to 21: 50mg ED

    Basic Nolvadex post cycle therapy (pct):
    Days 1 to 14: 40mg ED
    Days 15 to 30: 20mg ED

    I feel that a combo of the 2 are not needed. If the sides of Clomid are to much, use Nolvadex.

    There are a few supplements I would use also to help with the lowered libido, increased SHBGs, and raised liver values

    - MACA should help increase you libido
    - Avena Sativa should lower SHBGs and increase free test.
    - r-ALA will help repair any damage to the liver and help with glucose disposal.

    There is also an alternative post cycle therapy (pct) that I personally dont recomend, but has worked for others.

    Using the Herbal supplementations along with Proviron will help decrease the possible crash and increase libido. If you are one who recovers better than most, this way might be better. Although proviron can be suppressive, some can recover while using it. The HPTA will recover from time alone, so this post cycle therapy (pct) will take care of the crash symtoms and help get you though untill your HPTA recovers on it own.

    NOTE: Using any of the above post cycle therapy (pct)s will not guarantee recovery. It is only a guide line to help. Everyone is different and you will need to find the best post cycle therapy (pct) to help you recover.

    The only way to find out if you have truely recovered is blood work, so make sure you get the test done to find out whether the post cycle therapy (pct) you chose worked for you.

    I hope this helps.

    Also, please dont make this a debate...take what you want from the thread and find out what works for you!
    Last edited by LAWNSAVER; 12-30-2003 at 02:11 AM.
    Mass_Man likes this.

  2. #2
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    No debate, but I'd like to add a few points.

    The amount of r-ALA necessary to protect the liver may cause dangerously low blood sugar levels. Milk Thistle, lecithin, NAC and Pirkoliv are all good liver protectants.

    Proviron is only mldly suppressive and makes a nice conduit between being "on" and "off" by helping to ease the crash.

    Epimedium and ashwagandha are also good for libido.

    Muara Puama is vital for increasing free testosterone.

    Make sure the avena has the active extract, otherwise it's useless.

    Xanthoparmilia will aid in erective function, which is more of a problem than libido. When used with Cndium, it has a Cialis type of effect.

    Zinc helps in the production of semen.
    All the ingredients mentioned in both posts can be found in Unleashed and Post-Cycle. www.proteinfactory.com (Expept the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and proviron. )

  3. #3
    Olympian Bodybuilder LAWNSAVER's Avatar
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    Good Info!

  4. #4
    Community Veteran jcp2's Avatar
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    great info guys.

  5. #5
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    The Nolva VS Clomid PCt post were a great help, thanks Lawnsaver / SWALE / Liftsiron. I am nearing the start of my post cycle therapy (pct).

    My cycle looked like this:
    Weeks 1 - 10 / 500mg Cyp weekly
    Weeks 1 - 9 / 400mg EQ weekly
    weeks 10- 14 / 600mg Prop weekly
    weeks 9 - 14 / 25 mg D-bol daily.

    I started at 182 lbs and weighed in this morning at 207. Overall the cycle has been good (steady gains / no gyno related issues). Got a little sloppy the past two weeks when it came to the diet and water intake. Still maintained 300-400 gram of protien and 3000-4000 calories.
    I start post cycle therapy (pct) on the 5th of Jan. I had planned on and gathered my clomid. However after doing so more research the past week, i am deciding not to use the Clomid, but nolva instead. I will also be adding some herbal supplements to help ease any crash and to mitigate lbm losses.
    The post cycle therapy (pct) protocol will look like this:
    Day 1-14 ( 40 mg daily)
    Day 15 - 30 ( 20mg daily)
    Biotest trib.
    Cnidium Monnier
    NO2
    Metacel creatine
    & Z-Mass PM

    The side effects of Clomid seems to effect the majority of users, Bad acne, mood swings, vision issues (posible permanent), ect. It appears to be a higher risk than my original Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycle.
    I am no chemist, but from what I have researched clomid and Nolva act in a similar manner, but nolva has less side effects.

    The only thing I failed to do is plan for testical atrophy, I did not secure Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) prior to starting and still have not been able to acquire that product. So I will have to live with "mini nuts" until my nat. test system can restore. (f*k)

    I will keep a log of my post cycle therapy (pct). Any comments or sugestion would be great, and all considered.

    Thanks again
    PLR

  6. #6
    Amateur Bodybuilder hunter21's Avatar
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    helpful info guys

  7. #7
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    Default I am one of those who starte hcg late
    Lawnsaver you said to take Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 500iu for the last 14 to 21 days of your cycle. when I do this do i take clomid right after and is it alright to take biotest tribex at the same time and at what dosages.I have heard some debate that tribex does not work for lh production does it. Thanks

  8. #8
    Olympian Bodybuilder LAWNSAVER's Avatar
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    Default Re: I am one of those who starte hcg late
    Originally posted by dre009
    Lawnsaver you said to take Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 500iu for the last 14 to 21 days of your cycle. when I do this do i take clomid right after and is it alright to take biotest tribex at the same time and at what dosages.I have heard some debate that tribex does not work for lh production does it. Thanks

    The best way is actually taking 500ius of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) every 4 to 5 days throughout your cycle and prevent the atrophy. If you wait till the end, you should wait 5 days from the last shot of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to start your PCT.

    Stay away from Biotest!

    Go the www.proteinfactory.com and get Unleased or Post cycle for your herbal supps!

  9. #9
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    Remember i have not used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at all i used tribex and clomid on the eight week. my last shot was last saturday so should i start the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for 14 days and then use clomid as recommended, and can i use low dose of liquidex to combat the estrogen because i will not be able to get nolva.Also i will use the post cycle from protein factory, but do i run it after the clomid or during which is better. and what is so bad about biotest. thanks for the info.

  10. #10
    Junior Bodybuilder tatu's Avatar
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    Besides Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), what counteracts testicular atrophy during a cycle?

    I have ldex, nolva, and clomid.

  11. #11
    Olympian Bodybuilder LAWNSAVER's Avatar
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    None

  12. #12
    Junior Bodybuilder jucieNjs's Avatar
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    "The first thing that needs attention is the testicle. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is needed to prevent testicular atrophy. 300-500ius every 4-5 days throughout a cycle will do the trick"


    is this safe regardless of the length of the cycle? 8weeks vs. 14 weeks?

  13. #13
    Olympian Bodybuilder LAWNSAVER's Avatar
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    Originally posted by jucieNjs
    "The first thing that needs attention is the testicle. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is needed to prevent testicular atrophy. 300-500ius every 4-5 days throughout a cycle will do the trick"


    is this safe regardless of the length of the cycle? 8weeks vs. 14 weeks?
    Yes, the low doses are fine

  14. #14
    Junior Bodybuilder force's Avatar
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    Dre009 L-dex does work the same way Nolva can to help with recovery,it may actually make some things worse at that point.

    F.

  15. #15
    Junior Bodybuilder
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    I guess what i am trying to ask is if iuse clomid can i use l-dex .25 . does this work to my behalf in post cycle.thanks.

  16. #16
    Junior Bodybuilder jucieNjs's Avatar
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    ^^ i would like to know also

  17. #17
    Junior Bodybuilder jucieNjs's Avatar
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    thx law

  18. #18
    Junior Bodybuilder jucieNjs's Avatar
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    if I am going to do Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) through out the cycle should I start on day one of the cycle or day 4?

  19. #19
    Junior Bodybuilder jucieNjs's Avatar
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    this might answer you question dre.

    Post from swale:

    I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

  20. #20
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    So far i am done with clomid but I was unable to get Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) till now and i did not use it during the cycle, lawnsaver how long do i run the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) since I didn't take it during the cycle.

  21. #21
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    Default Mistakes and how to fix it
    If I was unable to get liquidex during my cycle don't you guys think my estrogen might be too high.

  22. #22
    Olympian Bodybuilder Ozzy27's Avatar
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    So you could take 500iu's ed of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) past your last injection of Test E ? Where would you end the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) ? I'm guessing on what you had advised someone above it would be on day 9 after last injection of Test E that he could do his last injection of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and then 5 days from there he would start post cycle therapy (pct). This was never specified , is this correct ?

  23. #23
    Olympian Bodybuilder LAWNSAVER's Avatar
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    5 days from last Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) shot you can start PCT.

  24. #24
    Olympian Bodybuilder Ozzy27's Avatar
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    Got it....Thanks

  25. #25
    Novice excepticons's Avatar
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    Nice post, buds.
    Some questions, please:
    1. The packs Unleashed or Post-Cycle from ProteinFactory.com only are supplements for a post cycle therapy (pct), or they are the complete post cycle therapy (pct)?
    2. How I should use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for a post cycle therapy (pct) in a final part of a cycle, and not form 4-5 days along the cycle?

    Thanks.

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