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  1. #1
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    Bottle Top Filtering Units
    NYLON Filter Membranes

    Nylon membranes are extremely durable membranes that allow for more viscous fluids, oils, and even solvents to be filtered through the membrane. Hydrophilic and excellent at removing particulates and bacteria. Superior thermal capabilities, and has a much higher tolerance to solvents than a PES filter. Extremely high vacuum capacity. This membrane is the best combination of durability and speed, especially when filtering higher viscosity fluids. Ideally suited for multiple laboratory filtering needs.

    PVDF Filter Membranes

    PVDF membranes are hydrophilic for wide chemical compatibilities, including a resistance to higher temperatures (up to 150°Celsius). Approved for filtering multiple food products, this membrane provides low extractable levels. This membrane may require the usage of mechanical pumps, but is able of sustaining far higher degrees of acidity, and can filter viscous fluids. This membrane is as durable as Nylon and also tolerates very high vacuum rates. However, PVDF has a slower flow rate than Nylon, especially when filtering more viscous fluids.

    PES Filter Membranes

    It's asymmetrical pore structure allows for very high flow rates, in addition the polyethersulfone membranes have the benefit of having low protein binding characteristics. Hydrophilic, and able to withstand higher temperatures, PES filters have a wide range of laboratory uses. However, does not withstand high pressures for filtration when filtering more viscous fluids. May not filter especially viscous fluids at all. Solvents mixed with other liquids or oils may work, but acidity of the mixture must be very minimal or it will damage the pore structure of the membrane. Ideally suited for rapid filtration of aqueous or less viscous fluids with low solvent concentrations.

    I was wondering, with this info I got from the RLS site, it shows that a nylon filter should be a better filter for the purpose of filtering oils and solvents. It is quicker and stronger. I have seen however, some threads with a warning on using NYLON filters for what we do...
    I was wondering, If I am doing bottle top filtering, does anyone have any good feedback on why not to use a Nylon bottle top filter??? the solvent scale shows it to be just under PVDF for comparison but everything else is better than PVDF.
    Nalgene does not make a PVDF that I could find and the only other one I could find was PES for Nalgene and PES is junk so says the info on it!
    What type of bottletop filters do you guys use and to what success do they work!?!
    I have been using these Millipore bottletop filters but they aren't exactly bottletop, hard to explain, but they are a type that sticks down into a rubber stopper with a 100ml upper cup and PVDF filter but the gear (made with very little EO and 20%BB) is desintigrating the tip that sticks down into the filter and ruining my gear! Having to syringe filter everything which is becoming a pain in my ass!!!
    POWERED BY PINNACLE LABS !!!

  2. #2
    Dart Fan Ironmonger's Avatar
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    Wish I could help bro, but I'll reply for a bump

  3. #3
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmonger View Post
    Wish I could help bro, but I'll reply for a bump
    Appreciate it iron! I been contemplating the Nylon filter cause all the info points to them working for this application but I've heard different and I'm wondering why!?!
    I use PVDF and frankly I think it could be better, but I could be wrong.
    POWERED BY PINNACLE LABS !!!

  4. #4
    wrj
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    edited ... not sure about bottle top filters just the syringe ones and my thumbs killing me... bump for reply
    Last edited by wrj; 04-21-2011 at 02:46 PM.

  5. #5
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrj View Post
    edited ... not sure about bottle top filters just the syringe ones and my thumbs killing me... bump for reply
    Thanks for the bumps fellas! I really don't think anyone knows or cares though!
    POWERED BY PINNACLE LABS !!!

  6. #6
    That Other Guy thatotherguy's Avatar
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    I use the PVDF syringe filters. Slow flow rate but much cleaner.

  7. #7
    .x3
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    i was accually gonna step up to that same one from syringe filters.. have u tried it w.o EO? same outcome? if the solvents dont bother the syr.filters, then obviously it isnt the membrane.....

    "...a type that sticks down into a rubber stopper with a 100ml upper cup and PVDF filter but the gear (made with very little EO and 20%BB) is desintigrating the tip that sticks down into the filter..."

    im having trouble understanding wich part its breaking down. thers a tip that sticks into the filter? or after the filter that sticks into the media bottle?

    either way, wat im tryin to say, if it works with syr.Filters, find whats different, and eliminate it.

    ill see what i can find on the nylon tho.

  8. #8
    That Other Guy thatotherguy's Avatar
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    direct line has syringe filters for a good price.

  9. #9
    .x3
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    starks.. email me dude.. i cant pm yet.

    lethalx3@Safe-mail.net

  10. #10
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    any answer on this topic yet starks? Have you tried another method thus far?

  11. #11
    Amateur Bodybuilder
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    I would use a calking gun not my thumb..

    I use pvdf with vac pump some thing flow fast some not. Don't get the oil to hot or the filter will breakdown.

  12. #12
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigboytank View Post
    any answer on this topic yet starks? Have you tried another method thus far?
    Okay fellas, I got answers!!! The BB is what is causing it!!!
    I got some bottle top Nalgene Nylon, and Millipore PVDF filters and the plastic is different than what is used for Syringe filters!!! I took a 3 hit combo to the underside plastic part of the filters, 3 of each filter and I took them apart and cut the part off that threads to the receiving flask. So the part that has female threads on it inbetween the receiving flask and the filter itself, I submerged 3 of each filter type into a solution of 75% GSO and 25% EO a strait EO solution, and a strait BB solution. The ethyl oleate GSO solution took two days to dissolve the plastic, the EO solution took a couple of hours to dissolve the plastic and the BB dissolved the plastic in like 20 min!!!! The BB from Lemelange and RLS both dissolved the plastic from the bottle top filters. These solutions did not dissolve the syringe filters but did dissolve the Terumo syringe stoppers!!!!!
    Beware!!! Filter quickly and use syringe filters! Yes it is more time consuming and expensive but this eliminates soooooo many ppls pain complaints!!!
    I have reserved myself to using one syringe filter per 10ml vial! Simpler and faster.
    POWERED BY PINNACLE LABS !!!

  13. #13
    [][][][]--------[][][][] cause4alarm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstarks11 View Post
    Okay fellas, I got answers!!! The BB is what is causing it!!!
    I got some bottle top Nalgene Nylon, and Millipore PVDF filters and the plastic is different than what is used for Syringe filters!!! I took a 3 hit combo to the underside plastic part of the filters, 3 of each filter and I took them apart and cut the part off that threads to the receiving flask. So the part that has female threads on it inbetween the receiving flask and the filter itself, I submerged 3 of each filter type into a solution of 75% GSO and 25% EO a strait EO solution, and a strait BB solution. The ethyl oleate GSO solution took two days to dissolve the plastic, the EO solution took a couple of hours to dissolve the plastic and the BB dissolved the plastic in like 20 min!!!! The BB from Lemelange and RLS both dissolved the plastic from the bottle top filters. These solutions did not dissolve the syringe filters but did dissolve the Terumo syringe stoppers!!!!!
    Beware!!! Filter quickly and use syringe filters! Yes it is more time consuming and expensive but this eliminates soooooo many ppls pain complaints!!!
    I have reserved myself to using one syringe filter per 10ml vial! Simpler and faster.
    Holy shit man, that is good shit!! You just solved so many of my questions!!


  14. #14
    [][][][]--------[][][][] cause4alarm's Avatar
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    So starks I do have a question for you...What do you recommend, for membrane sizes, if someone were to filter relatively large batches and refuse to use syringe filters, the .22um or .45um? I have used both and the .22 seems hit or miss as to if the filter is going to melt on me or not. I feel a bit safer going with the .22 but was also thinking about filtering the solution twice with two .45um filters? Regardless, this shit isn't gonna be cheap when purchasing 2 filters per batch. What do you think is a good idea?

  15. #15
    [][][][]--------[][][][] cause4alarm's Avatar
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    It's all good Starks, I see how its gonna be, you don't have to answer my questions. Just kiddin man lol.

    I've been doing a lot more research and thinking as well. So we pretty much need to use BB to prevent crashing once injected into the muscle but the BB is what's killing some of the filters, unless you want to sit for awhile and manually filter through a Whatman. But what really gets me is the fact that these exact same conversions using the exact same chemicals are made in pharmacies, so these pharmacies have to be doing some sort of filtration, correct? How is it that no one out there has ever worked or know of someone that worked in a pharmacy to tell how they filter their products. Or not even pharmacies, how are these popular, well-known UGL filtering their products? If they aren't using these complete filtering units or bottle tops such as you are, then what are they using to pump out large amount of this stuff without having all these filtering problems (or injection pain which you feel is related to the filters)? If I can't even make a small batch (10 vials) for myself at a time without having to worry about filtering issues then I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I don't mean to vent but I mean come on, something's gotta give. Since Starks won't answer my questions I'll also leave them open for anyone else out there. Lol just messing with ya man, hope all is well.

  16. #16
    In between cycles stiphy's Avatar
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    bump for answers

  17. #17
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cause4alarm View Post
    It's all good Starks, I see how its gonna be, you don't have to answer my questions. Just kiddin man lol.

    I've been doing a lot more research and thinking as well. So we pretty much need to use BB to prevent crashing once injected into the muscle but the BB is what's killing some of the filters, unless you want to sit for awhile and manually filter through a Whatman. But what really gets me is the fact that these exact same conversions using the exact same chemicals are made in pharmacies, so these pharmacies have to be doing some sort of filtration, correct? How is it that no one out there has ever worked or know of someone that worked in a pharmacy to tell how they filter their products. Or not even pharmacies, how are these popular, well-known UGL filtering their products? If they aren't using these complete filtering units or bottle tops such as you are, then what are they using to pump out large amount of this stuff without having all these filtering problems (or injection pain which you feel is related to the filters)? If I can't even make a small batch (10 vials) for myself at a time without having to worry about filtering issues then I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I don't mean to vent but I mean come on, something's gotta give. Since Starks won't answer my questions I'll also leave them open for anyone else out there. Lol just messing with ya man, hope all is well.
    Damn! I suck for answering in a timely fashion huh?
    Answer to that question is, these pharmaceutical companies are filtering the likes of quantities that are way outside of the realm of bottletop filtering systems.
    Have you ever seen that syringe filter that is made of the stainless material that dental equipment is made of? It screws apart and the prefilters and micro filter goes inside it then it screws back together, you filter then unscrew and throw away the filter, autoclave the stainless peices and you're ready to go for more.
    Well pharmaceutical companies use stainless equipment with filter housings that rival a full size pressure cooker and filter discs 18 inches (not 25mm) in diameter or bigger in size!!! These peices are resistant to 90% of applications including BB.
    I suggest someone doing research on a stainless bottletop middle section application and PP recieving unit with prefilter and micro filter disposability including a PP top cup.
    You see, the recieving flask and the top cup are not the culprit of the breakdown, it's the hard plastic of the middle "vacuum" section of the system that is failing. If one could find a vacuum section that was stainless then I believe we would all be in great shape!
    I could find them I'm sure, just been really busy!
    POWERED BY PINNACLE LABS !!!

  18. #18
    [][][][]--------[][][][] cause4alarm's Avatar
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    It's all good bro you know I'm just fukin with ya. Thanks for the reply and while I do have some spare time I'll look into some stainless filtering accessories and let you know what I come up with.

    I thought those things that look like stainless syringe filters unscrewed and you could pop an actual syringe filter in there? I guess that's what I get for thinking. But that might also be something to look into, I'm hitting the intronets for more answers. Thanks again Starks.

  19. #19
    [][][][]--------[][][][] cause4alarm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstarks11 View Post
    I have been using these Millipore bottletop filters but they aren't exactly bottletop, hard to explain, but they are a type that sticks down into a rubber stopper with a 100ml upper cup and PVDF filter but the gear (made with very little EO and 20%BB) is desintigrating the tip that sticks down into the filter and ruining my gear!
    I was wondering if you have a picture of these bottle top filters that you're using or a site for which to get a better visual. I've never seen any such filter before or maybe I'm just not understanding how your describing it.

  20. #20
    In between cycles stiphy's Avatar
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  21. #21
    In between cycles stiphy's Avatar
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  22. #22
    [][][][]--------[][][][] cause4alarm's Avatar
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    Not those Stiphy I have 20 of those millipore complete units laying around.

    Starks said he has a different kind of bottletop filter that sticks through a rubber stopper. From what he described it's not the usual bottletop or even the complete unit such as the ones as I use. With that in mind, I think that the issues he's describing and a couple issues I've experienced might not actually be that much related and I could possibly be worried about nothing? This is why I wanted to see the bottletop for which he is describing.
    Last edited by cause4alarm; 07-28-2011 at 10:36 PM.

  23. #23
    In between cycles stiphy's Avatar
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    which did you like better, the millipore or the Nalgene? Cant decide which one.

  24. #24
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    Anyone want to revive this thread, I also use RS to buy stuff. I have never filtered a 500ml batch like that.

    I have always been told to use the wattman filters. I find that when you filter a larger quantity like 100ml your thumb gets sore. It takes some time but its not so bad.

    60ml syringes and 1 filter works out best, imo.

    I would love to filter a larger quantity quickly. 500ml or greater.
    The bottle top method looks gravity fed, vs a hand pump system.
    When do you make the switch from bottle top to vacuum method?

  25. #25
    [][][][]--------[][][][] cause4alarm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stiphy View Post
    which did you like better, the millipore or the Nalgene? Cant decide which one.
    I prefer the Millipore PVFD filters over the Nalgene nylon. I will use Millipore from now on.

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