Nolva vs. Clomid for PCT

[THAMALIPXU]

I see many of your readers are interesting about medications and medicines, so now I going to touch that theme
information about medicines:
Clomiphene Citrate

Clomiphene citrate (brand name Clomid, Serophene) is used to induce ovulation. It revolutionized the field of infertility in the late 1950s.
Description

Clomiphene citrate is an orally administered medication. The initial dosage is 50 mg per day for five days, from day three to seven of the woman's cycle. The dose may be increased in subsequent cycles if the minimum dose does not result in ovulation.

Clomiphene citrate appears to act on the hypothalamus and is useful for women who do not ovulate because of hypothalamic or pituitary problems. Given early in the menstrual cycle (day three to seven), it suppresses the amount of naturally circulating estrogen. This "tricks" the pituitary into producing more follicular stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH). These hormones then stimulate the ovary to ripen a follicle and release an egg. Of patients who are properly screened for use of this drug, about 70 percent will ovulate, and 40 percent of those will become pregnant. If a patient ovulates but does not become pregnant, the physician should check cervical factors. The anti-estrogenic effect of clomiphene citrate can create a "hostile" environment for conception.

We usually start with the lowest dosage to minimize adverse reactions. We then increase the dose in a subsequent cycle if ovulation does not occur. The patient should begin testing urine for an LH surge daily with an ovulation test kit, beginning on day 11 or 12 of the cycle. Call the office when an LH surge occurs.

In most cases, we will examine you with transvaginal ultrasound to see whether the follicles are ready for ovulation and check the size of the ovaries. If they are excessively enlarged, we will stop treatment until the ovaries are back to the pre-treatment size. If the follicles are ready to ovulate, we will proceed with your treatment, which may include scheduling an intrauterine insemination, or advising you when to have natural intercourse.


Another medications are

Butalbital and aspirin combination is a pain reliever and relaxant. It is used to treat tension headaches. Butalbital belongs to the group of medicines called barbiturates . Barbiturates act in the central nervous system (CNS) to produce their effects.

Alprazolam is used to treat anxiety and panic disorders attacks, Anxiety disorders are characterized by unrealistic worry and apprehension, causing symptoms of restlessness, aches, trembling, shortness of breath, smothering sensation, palpitations, sweating, cold clammy hands, lightheadedness, flushing, exaggerated startle responses, problems concentrating, and insomnia. Panic attacks occur either unexpectedly or in certain situations (i.e. driving), and can require higher dosages of alprazolam.
Norco is prescribed for moderate to moderately severe pain. This is available in tablet, capsule, and liquid form and is taken every 4-6 hours by mouth.
The Lortab is prescribed for moderate to moderately severe pain. Hydrocodone binds to the pain receptors in the brain so that the sensation of pain is reduced. care must be taken to follow the doctor's instructions when taking Lortab.
Flexeril should be used only for short periods (no more than 3 weeks) And may be taken with or without food.
If you want more information you can go to www.crdrx.com , 10/325 at www.10-325.com , Vicoprofen, www.1vicoprofen.com and Lortab, www.1lortab.com.
Thanks

[Aztech]

i've used both and i'm preferring tamox as i rem feeling "weird" on the clomid

[macro]

Clomid is superior in every way in restoring the HPGA.

Nolva appears to be only effective if you are not heavily suppressed, it does not stimulate LH release but mainly acts as priming agent for response to GnRH. Also it upregulates the PgR (this is via estrogenic as well as theorized non-genomic action) which can exacerbate gyno issues when progestins are involved. Nolva is commonly linked to post cycle gyno for this reason.

tamoxifen upregulates inhibin as well.

this is not to say that some people cannot use nolva with positive results, merely that both the clinical and anecdotal evidence are against it for use among the general population.

however that being said a lot is not known about the AAS suppressed state (which has a number of actors of which E is primary but certainly not alone).

[roccodart440]

Originally Posted by macro

Clomid is superior in every way in restoring the HPGA.

Nolva appears to be only effective if you are not heavily suppressed, it does not stimulate LH release but mainly acts as priming agent for response to GnRH. Also it upregulates the PgR (this is via estrogenic as well as theorized non-genomic action) which can exacerbate gyno issues when progestins are involved. Nolva is commonly linked to post cycle gyno for this reason.

tamoxifen upregulates inhibin as well.

this is not to say that some people cannot use nolva with positive results, merely that both the clinical and anecdotal evidence are against it for use among the general population.

however that being said a lot is not known about the AAS suppressed state (which has a number of actors of which E is primary but certainly not alone).

WHat do you think about using clomid and nolvadex combined?

[SWALE]

Originally Posted by macro

Clomid is superior in every way in restoring the HPGA.

Nolva appears to be only effective if you are not heavily suppressed, it does not stimulate LH release but mainly acts as priming agent for response to GnRH. Also it upregulates the PgR (this is via estrogenic as well as theorized non-genomic action) which can exacerbate gyno issues when progestins are involved. Nolva is commonly linked to post cycle gyno for this reason.

tamoxifen upregulates inhibin as well.

this is not to say that some people cannot use nolva with positive results, merely that both the clinical and anecdotal evidence are against it for use among the general population.

however that being said a lot is not known about the AAS suppressed state (which has a number of actors of which E is primary but certainly not alone).

Tamoxifen has been shown to be quite effective for elevating gonadotropins. I have used it many times for this purpose, when I had to. I do prefer Clomid, though, UNLESS THERE ARE UNTOWARD SIDE EFFECTS (which we don't see with tamoxifen). In fact, as Dr. Shippen and I have independently found, just 25mg QD of Clomid is a very effective dose for restoring the HPTA.

Have you seen any studies with respect to Clomid and PR regulation?

Some claim tamoxifen is taxonimized incorrectly as a SERM, that it is a pure estrogen antagonist. I'm still thinking about that one. But its effects with respect to PR regulation is an important consideration there.

[SWALE]

Originally Posted by roccodart440

WHat do you think about using clomid and nolvadex combined?

I never saw the point in it.

[NepaMMA]

Great article!

[SWALE]

Titre du document / Document title
Inhibin and steroid responses to testicular stimulation in normal men
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
COMHAIRE F. H. (1) ; ROMBAUTS L. ; VEREECKEN A. (1) ; VERHOEVEN G. ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) Leuven inst. fertility technologies, Leuven, BELGIQUE

Résumé / Abstract
Static measurements of immunoreactive inhibin have proved to be of little relevance in the diagnosis of testicular disorders. To explore whether a dynamic evaluation of inhibin secretion might yield a more useful parameter of testicular function we compared the responses of inhibin with steroids to i.v. injections of pure follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH ; 300 IU) or human chorionic gonadotrophin (HCG ; 1500 IU) and oral administration of the antioestrogen Tamoxifen (20 mg/day for 7 days) in four normal fertile men. Blood was aspirated between 1 and 72 h after the injections and daily during Tamoxifen intake. Four controls were injected with physiological saline solution. An additional four men were injected with pure FSH, and blood was taken after 24, 48 and 72 h. Injection of FSH was accompanied by nycthemeral variations of testosterone comparable with those observed in the controls. The concentration of inhibin showed similar nycthemeral variations but a significant increase was observed in all eight cases at 12 noon on days 2 and 3 after FSH injection. HCG injection resulted in the expected biphasic response of testosterone. Inhibin displayed a pronounced increase 18 h after injection but the delayed response after 48 and 72h was not observed. Tamoxifen intake increased testosterone but not inhibin, and caused a moderate and temporary increase of luteinizing hormone and FSH. It was concluded that primary stimulation both of Leydig cells by HCG and Sertoli cells by FSH increase circulating inhibin. Comparison with the testosterone response suggests that the inhibin peak 18 h after HCG administration may reflect Leydig cell function, and that the delayed response 48 and 72 h after FSH administration can be used as a parameter of Sertoli cell function.
Revue / Journal Title
Human reproduction (Hum. reprod.) ISSN 0268-1161 CODEN HUREEE
Source / Source
1995, vol. 10, no7, pp. 1740-1744 (25 ref.)

Let's be careful about extrapolating unwarranted conclusions for status post AAS-use adult men based upon studies conducted on normal, fertile men.

[mrjingalang]

so much info its all great stuff

[mrjingalang]

Oh yeah i found it very helpful thanks for the post definetely a sticky

[the dude]

If I just do a cycle of d-bol then one of winni. I think I will be where I want! I am 33 and already lost enough hair! Will it accelerate any hair loss.??

[roccodart440]

Originally Posted by SWALE

I never saw the point in it.

I noticed in alot of HPTA reversal studies they use both. IMO the clomid is often as you said dosed to high.

WOuld you be opposed though to clomid and nbolva being used at the same time even if there is no point say at 50/20 repectively?

[sean usmc]

and the winner is???????

[Aztech]

nolva for the smaller dose

[sean usmc]

front and center, marine.......well done

[cialissialis]

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[mustanged77]

Originally Posted by roccodart440

I noticed in alot of HPTA reversal studies they use both. IMO the clomid is often as you said dosed to high.

WOuld you be opposed though to clomid and nbolva being used at the same time even if there is no point say at 50/20 repectively?

Your right on target rocco. I use clomid and nolva for pct at about those exact dosages.
Clomid has to be dosed too high to to the job all by itself.

I just bought a liquid clomid and nolva mix. I can't remember off the top of my head the dosage. I thinks its 50/30.

I have armidex, nolva, and clomid/nolva mix. They all serve their purpose.

[simpllyhuge]

so what if u were also using aromasin? would 20mg aromasin be good, and then should clomid and novla both be added or either clomid or novla.

[roccodart440]

IF I were to use aromasin in PCT i'd use 12.5 mg ED for the 1st couple weeks and then go to just nolva and clomid for the rest.

[bachar]

WHat about HCG at 500 ius every 4th or 5th day during the cycle! also 20 mgs of nolva a day! PCT 2 weeks after last test E or Test C shot, starting with clomid and nolva 150-100-50 and stick with nolva for 20mg a day!

[JMEALS]

Originally Posted by bachar

WHat about HCG at 500 ius every 4th or 5th day during the cycle! also 20 mgs of nolva a day! PCT 2 weeks after last test E or Test C shot, starting with clomid and nolva 150-100-50 and stick with nolva for 20mg a day!

you can take HCG in small amounts during your cycle to help maintain testicular function..this can be a problem only if your running a long cycle...lt can be a problem due to the possibility of desentization of the Leydig cells..thats the last thing you want to do....you want your own LH production to keep the testicles producing test..

[bachar]

JMEALS thx for ur reply man! do u think a 12 weeks cycles should be ok with HCG? should i take some proviron or clomid at 20 mgs a day during that cycle???

[JMEALS]

Originally Posted by bachar

JMEALS thx for ur reply man! do u think a 12 weeks cycles should be ok with HCG? should i take some proviron or clomid at 20 mgs a day during that cycle???

hey bro 12 weeks is fine with HCG..it does aromatize pretty heavily,so a anti estrogen is definitly reccomended if your planning on taking more than 500iu EOD....save the clomid for pct...not crazy about proviron..IMO its blocking action at the steroid receptor sites outweighs its usefullness..just keep nolv on hand in case of gyno symptoms...

[bachar]

Ok mate! i guess i will take 2 shots per week or every 4rth of 5th day at 250 iu's! ok i will save clomid for PCT thx! and also nolvadex a well!

[mosh69]

Man, this shit is so confusing to me!!! I feel like I'm in fucking chemistry class and completely lost!!
I know I never experienced any neg symptons on my last cycle with no PCT and I'm having VERY minimal sides on my current cycle.
So, I don't know if I'm one of the few who don't react as harshly to AAS or what.
I'm prepared to do the PCT at the end of this cycle though, I'm just lost with all the different options available.
I've read different articles here that suggest either Clomid or Nolva then some say to add in an AI like Arimidex or Proviron?????
Since I've been lucky with no real sides so far I'm hoping that luck will continue into the PCT but not so sure with the big change in levels.
Never cared about the balls, mine don't atrophy much at all honestly.
So the HCG isn't a concern, true?
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
I've kept the cycle simple Deca:400mg/wk Sus:500/wk
So I'd like to try to keep the PCT simple also.