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  1. #1
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    AAS & Dangerous Red Blood Cell Count
    From A meso article:

    Q1: Mr. Rea: In your description of equipoise (In the book Chemical Muscle Enhancement) you said that long-term use of this Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) for a lengthy protocol gave you an "unfavorable CBC result." What kind of result is this and how long is too long to remain on EQ.

    A1: I neither endorse nor condemn the use of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) (Anabolic Androgenic Steroid) and related chemistries though I have dedicated many years to understanding their unique mechanisms. However, I do have a real problem with issues of health sabotaging protocols destructive simply by design without forethought. Maximum progress can be obtained without tempting death.

    A simple CBC (Complete Blood Count) can help anyone avoid health problems of many origins…not only from Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use.

    In the case of boldenone (Equipoise), the length of administration resulting in excessive and dangerous red blood cell count was dose dependent. Most have shown only acceptable upregulation at dosages of 200-400mg/w (@ 1-2mg per pound of bodyweight) for up to 12 weeks. However, dosages of 600-800mg/w (3-4mg per pound of body weight) usually resulted in exceeding the upper "safer" levels for red blood cell count after only 4-6 weeks of employment. This is a real concern. Red blood cell count elevation can result in blood clots, strokes and circulatory depreciation.

    Many precontest athletes using longer Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) protocols have avoided this concern by using:

    Lower dosages.
    A 50/25/25 division between boldenone/nandrolone/Masteron (nandrolone draws water and Masterone mediates it).
    Using the higher dosage range only the last 4 weeks precontest.


    http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/rea/030519.htm

    " The average life cycle of a red blood cell is 120 days. "


    How many of you guys who run long clyces (20 wks +), actually worry about this.? They make it sound like this is a stroke just waiting to happen. And do you think waiting 60 days between cycles is really enough to allow the red blood cell count to go down?

  2. #2
    Getting ripped Venom's Avatar
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    Good post!

  3. #3
    Junior Bodybuilder xtinct's Avatar
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    Re: AAS & Dangerous Red Blood Cell Count
    Originally posted by tyhigs

    How many of you guys who run long clyces (20 wks +), actually worry about this.? They make it sound like this is a stroke just waiting to happen. And do you think waiting 60 days between cycles is really enough to allow the red blood cell count to go down?
    I wonder if there is an additive (or even a synergistic) effect of stacking EQ with anadrol. That combo should really bump up your RBC count.

  4. #4
    Community Veteran Mudge's Avatar
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    Last I recall Bouncer was on 1.2g test/1.2g EQ.
    He who overcomes others has force; He who overcomes himself is strong. Lao-tzu

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    Apparently one of the bigger risk is the thickening of the blood. I believe that is the hemocrit reading. In his book he indicates that drinking wine in moderation could possibly help with this. He also mentions asprin. Although there is the thought that asprin may hinder gains. (But so do strokes)

    My CBC elevated on just 400 mg test cyp and 400 mg eq per week. Mine are just over the "normal" range. That was almost 3 weeks after ending a cycle (10 weeks)

    Personally I am taking one 81 mg asprin a day and will have my cbc done again to check the levels. I am also going to look at a CBC taking before I ever did a cycle to see what it looked like.

    Any thoughts on other measures to lower the red blood cell count and specifically the hemocrit?

  6. #6
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    Anadrol, EQ, Injectable b-12 are all linked to increases in RBC. I wounder how dangerous it would be to run these together?

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    Hey there, new to the board I came to check it out after hulk and big fed got banned. In my opnion, since I work in medicine(specically cardiac and vascular) Ive never heard of elevated rbc being a great deal of concern for strokes. I could be wrong, but Ive never been called in for a stroke pt that someone said "Oh! its his RBC, its too high". The problem that people face most often is blood pressure concerns, now if the rbc count is the underlying cause for that, maybe, Ive pondered that before, it doesnt matter. You still treat the high bp. As for blood thickening certain competitive athletes use Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) for that very reason, it kinda replaced blood doping in the past. They also take epo for that. If you are concerned, then you are right on the money with the aspirin. This will hlp keep your blood cells "slippery". Every person that walks in the ER with chest pain gets an aspirin. There are two main types of stroke, one that is caused by emboli (clot, etc...) that shoots up the brain clogging blood flow. The other is when a vessel burst preventing blood flow to the brain Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) users are far more likely to suffer from the latter, so, take care of the bp and take an aspirin for the former and dont shoot in the calf region.

  8. #8
    Co-Founder TxLonghorn's Avatar
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    nice post lucias

  9. #9
    Amateur Bodybuilder DTOX's Avatar
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    I wonder if Swale or BuffDoc want to share anything on this...

    I'm on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), and one of the few things I'll be keeping an eye on is my Hematocrit level as everything I've read says it's the #1 thing to watch out for...

  10. #10
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    maybe i should take u off my ignore list so i dont have to click on that link to see what you said, now that you took of that naked man in your avatar. ha

    I asked swale (i belive it was him) a similar question on t-mag's forum, but the question was assumed to be based on cycles of 8-10 wks per yr. so I guess the answer wouldnt apply.

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by slide

    Any thoughts on other measures to lower the red blood cell count and specifically the hemocrit?
    Donate blood twice a month that's what I do.
    1134bigo likes this.

  12. #12
    Junior Bodybuilder xtinct's Avatar
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    Originally posted by massive g
    Donate blood twice a month that's what I do.
    I have always wondered what would happen if they give the blood you donated while on a heavy cycle to a woman who is very sensitive to androgen related sides. I guess it probably wouldn't really have any effect at all since the total volume is too low, but who knows.

  13. #13
    Getting ripped Venom's Avatar
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    Yeeahh!
    Wouldn't want to hurt someone when you're actually donating blood for a good cause.
    Don't they check the blood for AS, antibiotics etc.??

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    I doubt they cehck for AS. Probably just for the deadly diseases like Hepatits A,B,C, STD's, HIV. I actually had the same question over at bolex but no one has responded to it. There is always this prodedure called "pheblotomy" (sp?) in which they drain your blood for you without donating it at special clinics. I wonder how much it costs

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    anyway, how much Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) can be in 1 liter of blood? i think it would take a wk or so for the androgen related problems to show up in women.

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    Originally posted by tyhigs
    I doubt they cehck for AS. Probably just for the deadly diseases like Hepatits A,B,C, STD's, HIV. I actually had the same question over at bolex but no one has responded to it. There is always this prodedure called "pheblotomy" (sp?) in which they drain your blood for you without donating it at special clinics. I wonder how much it costs
    Just go with the leeches boys!! Bloodletting.com LOL

  17. #17
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    No they don't test for Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) but they ask f you have taken any drugs etc...don't tell them if you do they will not allow you to give blood and you will be blacklisted in the computer.
    They won't let you donate but once every 5 some days so you have to go to 2 different ones ...

  18. #18
    Community Veteran Mudge's Avatar
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    As for asparin, even 1/8th of an asparin is enough usually for heart patients that use it to keep the blood flowing freely. It doesn't take much.
    He who overcomes others has force; He who overcomes himself is strong. Lao-tzu

  19. #19
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    a guy on some other thread said that aspirin and other non-steroidal anti-inflammatories cmopletely block protein synthesis.

  20. #20
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    Yea I have heard the same thing, but I'm not so sure thats true.

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    If you want more information do some checking on Polycythemia. There are two types one is Polycythemia Vera(this is a cancer condition dont worry not likely something we would worry about just yet) and Secondary. Secondary meaning the increase in Hemoglobin and hematocrit is due to a secondary condition..Dehydration, Smoking, Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). There are several reasons.
    As far as giving blood. Check out redcross's website. You will be realy suprised what they will alow you to have and still donate. I was told about six months ago I had Polycythemia. My doc knows everything about me. He had me take time off and my levels were back normal in a couple of months. I was taking 600mgs of EQ weekly along with 30mgs of Dbol daily and 500mgs of Enanthate.

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    I spoke (e-mail) to Mr. Rea and he indicated that COX-2 specific inhibitor medications such as celebrex are used by some people to help control this. Apparently use of celebrex causes some people to become anemic. So the basis of thought is that while the steroids increase the red blood cell count taking cox-2 drugs will keep it from getting to be a dangerous condition. (The fear is of the blood becoming thick enough to cause a blood clot and a stroke.At least that is what my Internist was freaking out about.)

    In any case celebrex and other cox-2 drugs apparently do not have the potential to hinder gains in the manner that asprin may.

    As I have a lot of milage on me getting celebrex or bextra is not a problem for me. I can get a 90 day supply for $30.00. I am going to try that for a while and then have another CBC done to see what changes have taken place.

    As for as donating blood, can any of the Doc's tell us if we are posing a risk to anyone by doing this? I imagine the main reason they don't want it is the use of needles and the fact that most people doing steroids are doing so without a prescription.

  23. #23
    Olympian Bodybuilder TheStromba's Avatar
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    I want to add another question. Wouldn't an increase in red blood cells cause a dramatic rise in blood pressure ? If you monitor your BP can this be caught early or is a CBC the ony way ?

  24. #24
    Junior Bodybuilder Governor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mudge
    Last I recall Bouncer was on 1.2g test/1.2g EQ.
    haha close. Hes on 1.2 test EVERY 4 days. with a gram of EQ


    ...and get this......100dbol a day.

  25. #25
    Junior Bodybuilder rado's Avatar
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    Re: AAS & Dangerous Red Blood Cell Count
    Originally posted by tyhigs
    From A meso article:

    Q1: Mr. Rea: In your description of equipoise (In the book Chemical Muscle Enhancement) you said that long-term use of this Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) for a lengthy protocol gave you an "unfavorable CBC result." What kind of result is this and how long is too long to remain on EQ.

    A1: I neither endorse nor condemn the use of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) (Anabolic Androgenic Steroid) and related chemistries though I have dedicated many years to understanding their unique mechanisms. However, I do have a real problem with issues of health sabotaging protocols destructive simply by design without forethought. Maximum progress can be obtained without tempting death.

    A simple CBC (Complete Blood Count) can help anyone avoid health problems of many origins…not only from Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use.

    In the case of boldenone (Equipoise), the length of administration resulting in excessive and dangerous red blood cell count was dose dependent. Most have shown only acceptable upregulation at dosages of 200-400mg/w (@ 1-2mg per pound of bodyweight) for up to 12 weeks. However, dosages of 600-800mg/w (3-4mg per pound of body weight) usually resulted in exceeding the upper "safer" levels for red blood cell count after only 4-6 weeks of employment. This is a real concern. Red blood cell count elevation can result in blood clots, strokes and circulatory depreciation.

    Many precontest athletes using longer Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) protocols have avoided this concern by using:

    Lower dosages.
    A 50/25/25 division between boldenone/nandrolone/Masteron (nandrolone draws water and Masterone mediates it).
    Using the higher dosage range only the last 4 weeks precontest.


    http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/rea/030519.htm

    " The average life cycle of a red blood cell is 120 days. "


    How many of you guys who run long clyces (20 wks +), actually worry about this.? They make it sound like this is a stroke just waiting to happen. And do you think waiting 60 days between cycles is really enough to allow the red blood cell count to go down?

    good post, thx.

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