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  1. #1
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    45 years old, supplement questions
    I feel certain you guys can help. I am 45, and work out every other day with cardio and free weights. Started HGH 2 months ago. While at my regular doc, I was able to get my T level which was 250 (240-800 listed as normal).

    I can get andro cream pretty easy, but was told by a friend at gym to try some Sustanon (sust) 250. My doc says I am "within normal limits" but I think I am low as I have low libido and other common low T issues.

    I don't want to get freaky but would I want get bigger. I am seeing some results from the HGH but only a little.

    Here is the questions:

    1) Should I walk away from the whole thing, being 45 years old.
    2) Maybe use like 1/2 amp Sustanon (sust) every week with the HGH ?
    3) Just stick with HGH and some andro cream ?
    Is my age a factor with this ?

    Should I try to find a doc to write me a script for andro ?

    MY PSA is well below normal and I get the exam regularly. Just looking for some basic advice to amp it up a notch or two.

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Just Mike; 05-03-2006 at 03:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Lift, eat, sleep and grow Jimmykick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Mike
    I feel certain you guys can help. I am 45, and work out every other day with cardio and free weights. Started HGH 2 months ago. While at my regular doc, I was able to get my T level which was 250 (240-800 listed as normal).

    I can get andro cream pretty easy, but was told by a friend at gym to try some Sustanon (sust) 250. My doc says I am "within normal limits" but I think I am low as I have low libido and other common low T issues.

    I don't want to get freaky but would I want get bigger. I am seeing some results from the HGH but only a little.

    Here is the questions:

    1) Should I walk away from the whole thing, being 45 years old.
    2) Maybe use like 1/2 amp Sustanon (sust) every week with the HGH ?
    3) Just stick with HGH and some andro cream ?
    Is my age a factor with this ?

    Should I try to find a doc to write me a script for andro ?

    MY PSA is well below normal and I get the exam regularly. Just looking for some basic advice to amp it up a notch or two.

    Thanks in advance.
    1. Hell no don't walk away. I'm 40 and I feel like I'm 25 again. Bangin the wife 4 to 5 times a week and living a healthy lifestyle. You can too. Don't give up cause your 45.

    2. and 3. I can't answer these without more information but here is what I will tell you. YOUR DOCTOR IS A STUPID ASSHOLE. You are barely above the mendoza line and he will not prescribe you any test? I would immediately start looking for an anti-aging specialist. At 250 he would prescribe you some test for sure. Test is a phenomenal hormone that does more than just aid in adding muscle faster. For me it promotes a sense of well being, optimism, energy and ratchets the sex drive up like no other hormone can. I'd stay away from Sustanon (sust) and go with a straight test enanthate or cypionate. Depending on where you live this shouldn't be too hard to find a progressive minded doctor.

  3. #3
    Lift, eat, sleep and grow Jimmykick's Avatar
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    Just read this article. Nice explanation of the basics.
    http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/research/test.htm
    here it is below

    The forgotten symptoms of low testosterone levels...
    Are you having a hard time building new muscle? Do you suffer from low sex drive, constant tiredness, depression, or a loss of strength? If so, low testosterone levels could be the problem.

    Many think of low testosterone as something that just affects older men. However, men in their 30's and 40's also fall prey to low testosterone counts. According to the FDA, more than four million men suffer from low testosterone levels. Yet, 95 out of 100 men fail to seek treatment - often because they just accept the symptoms as a "normal" part of getting older.

    Low testosterone levels
    Testosterone is produced mainly in the Leydig cells in the male testes, and in smaller amounts by the adrenal gland near the kidneys. In women, where production is about one-tenth the total of males, roughly one-half comes from the ovaries. For men, the normal level of testosterone in the bloodstream is between 350 and 1230 nanograms per deciliter.

    The production of testosterone increases rapidly at the onset of puberty. Once you reach middle age, however, testosterone levels begin to drop by about one percent each year. In the short-term, this might not sound like much. By the time you reach your 70's and 80's, this constant decline increases the risk of obesity, brittle bones, muscle loss and impotence. Very low testosterone levels can also increase your risk of dying from a heart attack.

    Although it's considered as a male hormone, women need testosterone too. Despite the fact they only produce a small amount, testosterone helps women maintain the strength of muscle and bone. After the menopause, testosterone levels drop. Estrogen replacement therapy can also reduce testosterone levels, leaving some postmenopausal women concerned about a lack of energy and libido.

    Testosterone is a hormone that's also very important for people wanting to shed fat while preserving (or even gaining) lean muscle. In fact, hormones such as testosterone are one reason why you can lose weight on the scales without being able to shift the fat that seems to be glued to your stomach.

    Think of a hormone like the remote control for your television. In much the same way that you change the channel using the remote control, hormones can change the way your fat cells respond to the food you eat.

    Your body has billions of these tiny fat cells. They expand to many times their original size in order to store fat. They also shrink when they release stored fat. Fat cells respond to hormones in one of two ways, depending on whether the signal is lipogenic or lipolytic.

    The term lipo means fat, while lysis means breakdown. So, a lipolytic (pronounced lip-o-lit-ik) hormone increases the number of fat calories burned for energy. Hormones that promote fat storage, on the other hand, are known as lipogenic (pronounced lie-po-jen-ik). In other words, lipogenic hormones promote fat storage.

    Fat loss
    Testosterone affects fat loss in one of two ways [2]. Just like a car, your fat cells have a series of brakes and accelerators. The parts of a fat cell that accelerate the release of fat are called beta-receptors. The parts of a fat cell that put the brakes on fat loss are known as alpha- receptors.

    The distribution of brakes and accelerators on each fat cell is one reason why certain parts of your body shed fat faster than others. Women, for example, often have a hard time losing fat from their hips. That's because the fat cells in that area have a higher ratio of alpha- to beta-receptors.

    If a fat cell has more beta-receptors, it will release stored fat more quickly than one with fewer beta-receptors. That's where testosterone appears to help. By increasing the number of beta-receptors, testosterone makes it easier to lose stored fat.

    What's more, testosterone can also limit the storage of fat. When fat cells are exposed to testosterone in a test tube, the activity of lipoprotein lipase ó an enzyme that promotes fat storage ó is dramatically reduced.

    To see whether the same thing happens in the human body, researchers from Sweden gave a group of overweight older men supplemental testosterone (in the form of a pill or an injection) for six weeks [7]. When it was measured after just one week, lipoprotein lipase activity in abdominal fat tissue dropped. Even more dramatic changes were seen six weeks later. Waist size also dropped in 9 of the 11 men.

    Further research confirms the positive effect of testosterone on body composition in older men [5]. The men were aged between 65 and 87. All had low levels of free testosterone, and were treated with either transdermal testosterone (two 2.5 milligram patches per day) or fake patches containing no testosterone.

    After 12 months, free testosterone levels in the group using the patches rose by 75%. There was no change in the group given the fake patches. Subjects using the testosterone patches also lost fat, with the average body fat percentage dropping from 26.3% to 24.6%.

    A long-term study also confirms that men with low testosterone levels are more likely to develop a pot belly [6]. More than 100 Japanese-American men took part in the research. A number of measurements, including total body fat and testosterone levels, were taken at the start of the study. The same measurements were taken again seven years later. Body fat increased to a greater extent in the men starting the study with low testosterone levels.

    The link between hormones and body fat applies to women as well as men. Specifically, researchers from Yale have uncovered a link between a hormone known as cortisol and abdominal fat in otherwise slender women [4]. In other words, women who secrete more cortisol in response to stress also have more abdominal fat.

    Testing
    While a blood test is one of the most common ways to measure testosterone levels, there are several less invasive methods currently available. For instance, some research shows that analyzing saliva is an accurate way to test for low testosterone levels.

    Testosterone travels around your bloodstream in two forms ó free testosterone or bound testosterone. Roughly two percent of total testosterone is made up of free testosterone, which is the most "active" form. The rest is attached to sex hormone-binding globulin (known as SHBG) and other proteins [3].

    In aging men, it's possible for total testosterone to appear normal, while free testosterone is actually low. If you do get your testosterone levels measured, make sure to ask for a reading of both total and free testosterone.

    While a blood or saliva test is a more accurate way of establishing your levels of testosterone, you can also use The Saint Louis University Androgen Deficiency in Aging Men (ADAM) Questionnaire. Dr. John Morley, a researcher with the Saint Louis University School of Medicine, developed the self-screening tool to help identify symptoms of low testosterone in men. Choose the responses below that best describe how you have been feeling.

    1. Do you have a decrease in libido (sex drive)?
    2. Do you have a lack of energy?
    3. Do you have a decrease in strength and/or endurance?
    4. Have you lost height?
    5. Have you noticed a decreased "enjoyment of life"?
    6. Are you sad and/or grumpy?
    7. Are your erections less strong?
    8. Have you noticed a deterioration in your ability to play sports?
    9. Are you falling asleep after dinner?
    10. Has there been a recent deterioration in your work performance?

    If you answer yes to question one or seven, or at least three of the other questions you may have low testosterone levels.

    Mood
    Another common sign of low testosterone is a change in mood and behavior. You find it very easy to get angry at trivial incidents. Things you used to enjoy now seem like chores. Life no longer seems to be an endless stream of possibilities.

    When men who cannot produce testosterone come off hormone replacement therapy, they become irritable and depressed. Their mood improves when they resume treatment.

    In fact, some researchers think that low testosterone levels are one reason why some men become grumpy, nervous and irritable as they age. Stress can also cause men of any age to experience a drop in testosterone levels.

    The reason is that certain regions of your brain are "loaded" with receptors for testosterone. In fact, men with depression have free testosterone levels almost 20% lower than normal [1]. In contrast, high levels of testosterone lift your mood, giving you a feeling of well-being.

    If you do have a blood test, remember that testosterone levels are generally higher in the morning and lower in the evening. However, the degree to which testosterone levels vary during the day is reduced as you age. There are also peaks and troughs during the year. Testosterone levels reach a high during June and July, and drop during winter and early spring [8].[/SIZE]
    ]

    References
    1. Barrett-Connor, E., Von Muhlen, D.G., & Kritz-Silverstein, D. (1999). Bioavailable testosterone and depressed mood in older men: the Rancho Bernardo Study. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 84, 573-577
    2. De Pergola, G. (2000). The adipose tissue metabolism: role of testosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone. International Journal of Obesity and Related ********* Disorders, 24, S59-63
    3. Dunn, J.F., Nisula, B.C. & Rodbard, D. (1981). Transport of steroid hormones: binding of 21 endogenous steroids to both testosterone-binding globulin and corticosteroid-binding globulin in human plasma. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 53, 58-68
    4. Epel, E.S., McEwen, B., Seeman, T., Matthews, K., Castellazzo, G., Brownell, K.D., Bell, J., & Ickovics, J.R. (2000). Stress and body shape: stress-induced cortisol secretion is consistently greater among women with central fat. Psychosomatic Medicine, 62, 623-632
    5. Kenny, A.M., Prestwood, K.M., Gruman, C.A., Marcello, K.M, & Raisz, L.G. (2001). Effects of transdermal testosterone on bone and muscle in older men with low bioavailable testosterone levels. Journal of Gerontology, 56, M266-272
    6. Tsai, E.C., Boyko, E.J., Leonetti, D.L., & Fujimoto, W.Y. (2000). Low serum testosterone level as a predictor of increased visceral fat in Japanese-American men. International Journal of Obesity and Related ********* Disorders, 24, 485-491
    7. Rebuffe-Scrive, M., Marin, P., & Bjorntorp, P. (1991). Effect of testosterone on abdominal adipose tissue in men. International Journal of Obesity, 15, 791-795
    8. Andersson, A.M., Carlsen, E., Petersen, J.H., & Skakkebaek, N.E. (2003). Variation in levels of serum inhibin B, testosterone, estradiol, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and sex hormone-binding globulin in monthly samples from healthy men during a 17-month period: possible effects of seasons. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 88, 932-937

  4. #4
    Pro Bodybuilder Slayer's Avatar
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    Just about the age thing,,,,,I am 44 and still using aas. I started just a few years ago. I am glad I didn't walk away. And bump to the two posts above me. Nice article JK.

  5. #5
    Olympian Bodybuilder DocJ's Avatar
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    After males hit 40 test/hgh levels decrease steadily. HRT is just that - hormone replacement therapy - so you're looking to just get things somewhat back to pre-40 levels not to gain 30lbs of muscle and enter a BB show. I can tell you this, as soon as I hit 45-50 I'll be on test/hgh Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). There's growing evidence that in males low levels of test/hgh greatly contribute to aging/disease processes. I think in the not too distant future, HRT will be the norm, not the exception.

  6. #6
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    Thanks dudes...

    I made an appt with an endocrine doc that my wife uses for her diabetes. Since she knows everyone there, I spoke with the nurse and told her about my situation. She says they write scripts for the gel and shots all the time there.

    My appt is next week. I'll post and update.

    I knew I would get a straight answer on this forum. You guys rock.

    Mike

  7. #7
    Lift, eat, sleep and grow Jimmykick's Avatar
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    good luck

  8. #8
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    Long story...

    But the short version is went to the endocrine doc. He looked at the blood work and wrote the script for Cypinate.

    Tried to get the gel, but I explained my wife doens't want to get any near her as she might be preg.

    I dropped the script off, 25 bucks a month via insurance.

    Not too shabby. Let's see what happens now.

    Mike

  9. #9
    A Legend GymLift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Mike
    Long story...

    But the short version is went to the endocrine doc. He looked at the blood work and wrote the script for Cypinate.

    Tried to get the gel, but I explained my wife doens't want to get any near her as she might be preg.

    I dropped the script off, 25 bucks a month via insurance.

    Not too shabby. Let's see what happens now.

    Mike
    Do testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), not AAS.

    Visit http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9 , sign up, and make sure to read the sticky "TRT: A Recipe for Success" by Dr. John Crisler. And check out the rest of the forum.

  10. #10
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    My training partners is 52 years I take this , this natural suplement work a lot fantastic.
    vane

    [url]http://optima-bolan.com/Index.html[/url]

  11. #11
    A Legend Dave B.'s Avatar
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    What king of HGH are you taking? How is it administered?


  12. #12
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    Just tried p-boost after reading some reviews about it. Worked good but pretty pricey. The trial was free but you have to pay for the shipping which was quick. Anyone know any coupon codes for p-boost.com?

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