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  1. #1
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    Clomid or Arimidex Only to Increase Free Test
    Could anybody tell me, if simply taking Clomid by itself would increase my testosterone levels? I have never taken steroids but now at 37 I feel my tesosterone going down and I want to bring it back up to normal or a little higher.

    What about Arimidex by itself ? By supresseing estrogen conversion, wouldnt my testosterone go much higher ??

    Thanks

    Foreverstrong

  2. #2
    Novice MattyBoy682's Avatar
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    Go see your doctor, and get your levels of testosterone tested. If they are indeed significantly low for someone your age, then they'll stick you on HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) and give you weekly injections of testosterone (not large amounts, but enough to get you going again).

  3. #3
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    I went to the doctor and he ordered a test for testosterone. Had my blood drawn this morning, he also ordered, cholesterol, Thyroid and ********* panel, blood cell count.. etc...

    Im trying to prepare for when the test comes back low test. If I ask for Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), exogenous testosterone injections or creams, Im concerned it will just convert to estrogen, leaving me worse off than before and then if I stop my testicles will be DOA.

    If I ask for Clomid or Arimidex it might be better. I wanted to know what this communities experience would suggest as the best plan for me when I go back to the doctor and discuss treatment.

    Thanks

  4. #4
    Novice MattyBoy682's Avatar
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    At such low doses (it will probably be only around 250mg a week) you will not be likely to experience any estrogen sides. If you start to, you can always use Letrozole at very low dosages, or Adex, or Nolva (if breast tissue begins to form).

    I'm unaware of a Doctor actually giving a male patient Clomid (it's a fertility drug manufactured approved for use by women). Or Arimidex (prescribed for post-menopausal(sp) women with breast cancer).

    You can always buy liquid forms of these drugs on your own though, so I'd wait for the test results to come in, and go for the HRT if it is low, and you don't feel comfortable administering any Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) on your own.

  5. #5
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    Matty,
    You mentioned that liquid forms of these drugs are readily available? Where can I find these liquid versions? What is AAS? Thanks for your help.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by foreverstrong37
    I went to the doctor and he ordered a test for testosterone. Had my blood drawn this morning, he also ordered, cholesterol, Thyroid and ********* panel, blood cell count.. etc...

    Im trying to prepare for when the test comes back low test. If I ask for Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), exogenous testosterone injections or creams, Im concerned it will just convert to estrogen, leaving me worse off than before and then if I stop my testicles will be DOA.

    If I ask for Clomid or Arimidex it might be better. I wanted to know what this communities experience would suggest as the best plan for me when I go back to the doctor and discuss treatment.

    Thanks
    Hopefully the physician ran a free testosterone test.

    Arimidex is inappropriate for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). And Nolvadex/Clomid just don't work that well for TRT.

    You are jumping to conclusions regarding the estrogen. If it is a problem, then it can be controlled with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), but this requires appropriate blood assays to determine need and dosage.

    SWALE runs an HRT forum that I highly recommend.

  7. #7
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    thanks for the link its great! but why is Arimidex inappropriate for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) ?

  8. #8
    Novice MattyBoy682's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foreverstrong37
    Matty,
    You mentioned that liquid forms of these drugs are readily available? Where can I find these liquid versions? What is AAS? Thanks for your help.
    See the board sponsor's website by clicking any of the links brought up by such key words as:

    Letro
    Arimidex
    Clomid

  9. #9
    SPIRITO SANTO Micromegas's Avatar
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    This brings up an interesting question I haven't seen really answered before and I can't find in search...

    What would be the benefits or downsides to simply using something like Clomid or Armidex or any other post cycle therapy (pct) alone to boost natural testosterone?

  10. #10
    Senior Member roccodart440's Avatar
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    /\

    I'd like to know as well. WHat about something like nolvadex 4 weeks on and 4 off?

  11. #11
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    what stimulates aromatase production and, after inhibiting aromatase for a few months would my body crank up production of aromatase higher than before after I stop the arimadex?

    I know your body makes aromatase when testosterone levels get higher than the body thinks they should be. Is it possible to reset the bodys values to a higher level ?

    Anyone ?

  12. #12
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    I may have overstepped just a bit when I said that using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) was inappropriate for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). However, I have never seen a case where it was the best treatment.

    You don't want to bring your estrogen down too low as this has negative health consequences, sexual consequences, etc.

    Using a SERM such as Nolvadex or Clomid or even Evista which isn't often mentioned will certainly raise your serum testosterone. Unfortunately, men don't get the subjective benefits of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) from this type of treatment.

    As for cycling a SERM 4 weeks on/4 weeks off....well, a SERM should really be tapered. It takes about 4 weeks for the SERMS to really clear the system. But even so, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) should not be cycled. The body likes stable hormone levels.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by foreverstrong37
    what stimulates aromatase production and, after inhibiting aromatase for a few months would my body crank up production of aromatase higher than before after I stop the arimadex?
    There is apparently a rebound effect, but I have not seem much data on this issue.

  14. #14
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    <<<<You don't want to bring your estrogen down too low as this has negative health consequences, sexual consequences, etc.

    Using a SERM such as Nolvadex or Clomid or even Evista which isn't often mentioned will certainly raise your serum testosterone. Unfortunately, men don't get the subjective benefits of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) from this type of treatment.>>>

    Why arent there any subjective benefits to raising serum testosterone levels with Clomid? Isnt Clomid an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) also ? if not would stacking with .25mg Arimidex keep the test from converting to estrogen thus bringing the real benefits of high normal testosterone levels ?

    I thought lowering estrogen to less than 30 would increase libido? What negative sexual result can come from too low estrogen and why ?

  15. #15
    Senior Member roccodart440's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mranak
    You don't want to bring your estrogen down too low as this has negative health consequences, sexual consequences, etc.

    Using a SERM such as Nolvadex or Clomid or even Evista which isn't often mentioned will certainly raise your serum testosterone. Unfortunately, men don't get the subjective benefits of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) from this type of treatment.

    As for cycling a SERM 4 weeks on/4 weeks off....well, a SERM should really be tapered. It takes about 4 weeks for the SERMS to really clear the system. But even so, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) should not be cycled. The body likes stable hormone levels.
    Nolva is said to have a positive influence on hdl levels. I don't want to go on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) because i'm only 27. I am very interestedin alternative treatments even if it isn't as good and am very interested in the possibility of HPTA reversal.

  16. #16
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    Lab Results
    got my testosterone results back today.. it was 937. The doctor said it was high normal. I am 37 years old. I asked him why my libido was still low he said it was secondary to acute depression because a close friend died in August and I was cmpletely devastated. Im not sure if he is right or not.

    I wish I would have got the free circulating testosterone test, instead of the total tesosterone. I didint think of it and he didnt say anything either.

    I wonder if the testosterone is converting to estrogen or binding to something else rendering it inactive. I dont have bitch tits, but I do have some fluid retention. I am about 12% bodyfat, 191lbs.

    937 testosterone, and still I have low ambition, low sex drive in the evenings, fatigue.. Ive never taken any steroids or drugs. I wake up with an erection almost everyday. I take ZMA and glutamine at night, but didnt the night before the test which was at 10am. I fasted 9 hours before the test.

    At least I know my Testicles are capable of cranking out the testosterone.

    Im thinking of taking a little bit of Arimidex (like an 1/8th mg to a 1/4mg) to inhibit aromatase conversion of test to estrogen.

    My total cholesterol was 125, HDL was 55. Everything else was perfect too he said.

    Any analysis would be appreciated.

    Thanks

  17. #17
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    Do you take propecia or dutasteride? I've heard those have negative effects on your libido because of the lower dht levels but it won't directly effect test levels. That could be an issue if you're using it. If not, then I don't know what to tell you. I don't think using clomid, nolva, or ldex is going to help your libido. Your test levels are already high normal. But I'm not a Dr so what the hell do I know anyway.

  18. #18
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    No I dont use DHT inhibitors like propecia, I thought about it though, but my hair is still decent. Just receding hairline some but not on top.

    Can anyone tell me why, taking some Arimidex will not increase my free testosterone ? as someone said ?

    Thanks

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by foreverstrong37
    Why arent there any subjective benefits to raising serum testosterone levels with Clomid?
    I wish I knew.

    Quote Originally Posted by foreverstrong37
    Isnt Clomid an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) also ?
    No. Clomid is a SERM. A SERM is essentailly a very weak estrogen which binds to the estrogen receptor thus preventing a stronger estrogen from binding to the receptor. Hence, the reason why people say that SERM drugs "block" estrogen.

    Quote Originally Posted by foreverstrong37
    if not would stacking with .25mg Arimidex keep the test from converting to estrogen thus bringing the real benefits of high normal testosterone levels ?

    I thought lowering estrogen to less than 30 would increase libido? What negative sexual result can come from too low estrogen and why ?
    As I said, estrogen balance is important.

    'estrogen less than 30' is a very vague and essentially meaningless statement, because it is non specific and has no correlation to a 'normal' range.

    In general, estrogen that is too low can cause libido problems (and cholesterol problems). estrogen that is too high can cause anxiety and symptoms of low testosterone, such as impotence.

  20. #20
    SPIRITO SANTO Micromegas's Avatar
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    I don't see how you would not get muscular beneifts from raising your testosterone levels with SERM's

    According to PubMed...

    The administration of tamoxifen, 20 mg/day for 10 days, to normal males produced a moderate increase in luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone, and estradiol levels, comparable to the effect of 150 mg of clomiphene citrate (Clomid). However, whereas Clomid produced a decrease in the LH response to LH-releasing hormone (LHRH), no such effect was seen after the administration of tamoxifen. In fact, prolonged treatment (6 weeks) with tamoxifen significantly increased the LH response to LHRL. Treatment of patients with "idiopathic" oligospermia for 6 to 9 months resulted in a significant increase in gonadotropin, testosterone, and estradiol levels. A significant increase in sperm density was observed only in subjects with oligospermia below 20 X 10(6)/ml and normal basal FSH levels. When basal FSH levels were increased or oligospermia was moderate (greater than 20 X 10(6)/ml); no effect on sperm density was seen. As sperm density increased, FSH levels decreased, suggesting an inhibin effect. Sperm motility was not improved by tamoxifen treatment. In five boys with delayed puberty, tamoxifen treatment appeared to activate the pituitary-gonadal axis and pubertal development.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

  21. #21
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    It seems to me that clomid wouldn't help any, but nolvadex and letrozole might be beneficial in raising testosterone for training purposes. I would personally be afraid that using your own body to raise testosterone levels might reset your base hormonal levels to a lower setting once you stopped treatment.

  22. #22
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    Thanks, do you think there would be any harm from using Arimidex .25 mg ?
    Would this prevent conversion to estrogen thus increasing free circulating testosterone ?

    Thanks

  23. #23
    Senior Member roccodart440's Avatar
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    "Treatment of patients with "idiopathic" oligospermia for 6 to 9 months resulted in a significant increase in gonadotropin, testosterone, and estradiol levels."

    I used clomid and nolva for a week and then nolva for 3 weeks following. I got gains like the guys here get whiloe using steroids. I wonder if I should have scontiniued using it longer?

  24. #24
    SPIRITO SANTO Micromegas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roccodart440
    "Treatment of patients with "idiopathic" oligospermia for 6 to 9 months resulted in a significant increase in gonadotropin, testosterone, and estradiol levels."

    I used clomid and nolva for a week and then nolva for 3 weeks following. I got gains like the guys here get whiloe using steroids. I wonder if I should have scontiniued using it longer?


    What were your doses?

    And why would you mix Clomiphene with Tamoxifen? Tamoxifen is much better considering it takes alot less to get the same things done as 10 times as much clomiphene. Also Clomiphene does not have antiestrogenic properties like Tamoxifen does.

    Our findings suggest that Clomid and its Enclomid isomer, unlike tamoxifen, exert a direct estrogenic rather than an antiestrogenic effect on cultured pituitary cells by enhancing the GnRH-stimulated release of gonadotropin.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

  25. #25
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    This is multiple leveled hearsay, but I was told by a mod on another board that his friend's doctor did prescribe 50mg of clomid a day to this friend for low test levels. It wasn't an ongoing thing, just 30 days then retested.

    I know this isn't info that many are going to rely on, but unfortunately this is the kind of stuff we have to rely on to a certain degree with this thing of ours being outlawed. Take it for what its worth.

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