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  1. #1
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    Clomid AND Nolvadex post cycle?
    I read that some of you like to use clomid and nolvadex both in your post cycle therapy. Can anyone tell me a little detailed reasoning on this?

    Also, what doses would you use for what amount of time?

  2. #2
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    I've also believe i read somewhere about people just using nolvadex for post cycle recovery???

  3. #3
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    you can use both or either one alone....a good rule of thumb is 20 mg of per 50 mg of clomid....why use both?.....for me clomid is not an adequate anti e while nolva is....nolva helps for the estrogen rebound....

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    It's a good question. I can't think of a reason to use BOTH. That is not to say, however, there is one we just don't know about.

  5. #5
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    Re: Clomid AND Nolvadex post cycle?
    Originally posted by TooPowerful4u
    I read that some of you like to use clomid and nolvadex both in your post cycle therapy. Can anyone tell me a little detailed reasoning on this?

    Also, what doses would you use for what amount of time?
    I recovered 20-30% quicker/ 10% better overall using BOTH.

    Everytime I do a tren cycle....I chose recover with BOTH.

    It seems like over-kill........but maybe there's something to this overkill???!!!!!?!?!?!?

  6. #6
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    Ya, who knows? Just because we can't think of a reason why NOW, doesn't mean it isn't true. I mean, if enough guys try it both ways, and report using both SERM's together is better, then, in my opinion, we HAVE TO take note of that. Lots of ground-breaking thinking has occurred that way.

  7. #7
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    We stack different compounds in our cycles...so why not stack the anti-e's? You may get benefits from each the other cannot provide. For instance, clomid may stimulate LH better, while nolva would be better at keeping gyno at bay. Both of these are important factors during recovery.

  8. #8
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    Also, I can't see any actual harm in doing it, and the price is about the same.

    I wish we had a way to have a bunch of guys try both ways, for alittle impromptu field research.

    My original point concerning this question was that it makes no sense to stop taking Nolvadex from the cycle to start taking Clomid post-cycle.

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  10. #10
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    I like the fact Mr. L speaks of the positive comparison between the two drugs. However, he makes a mistake in citing that Belgium study, because it is so flawed as to be of little or no use to us. In it, they compared what is basically a toxic dose of Clomid to a normal dose of Nolvadex.
    Last edited by SWALE; 05-24-2003 at 01:43 PM.

  11. #11
    Amateur Bodybuilder Railrunner's Avatar
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    damn good post goat....ive been searching for the exact differences for a while now..........


    MUCH HELP!!

  12. #12
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    I understood that clomid helps restore natural test by stimulating FSH and LH, whilst nolvadex or arimidex, being anti-estrogens stimulate test by the feedback loop of low estrogen.

    Having two different mechanisms of action, they will recover natural test more efficiently than just using one.

    That is what I have always understood, am I wrong?, Swale why do you say there is no reason to use both?

  13. #13
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    I say that because they both do the same thing. So why use them concurrently? Doing so just complicates dosing protocols. Of course, my mind is very much open to the fact we may one day find there IS a reason to use both.

    As far as how they work at the HP, a good way to think about what Clomid, Nolvadex AND Arimidex all do is to prevent "activation" of the estrogen receptor. The two SERM's by blocking the receptor, and the Arimidex by actually lowering serum estrogen concentrations.

  14. #14
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    Swale, are you saying that nolvadex and arimidex also stimulate LH and FSH and therefore there is no reason to switch to clomid post cycle?

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    Exactly.

  16. #16
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    Well I dont need any double blind placebo study to tell me that I recover quicker and better when using both.

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    bigdelt69--Which of the two meds in question have you used on their own? How many cycles did you do with each? How many times have you used them both at once? Were the cycles under them nearly the same? Please share the differences you experienced. Inquiring minds want to know!

  18. #18
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    I have used both meds post cycle on their own. The clomid was after a heavy test/deca/winny cycle, and the nolva was after a short 6 week cycle of suspension,deca, and Winstrol (winny). Its really hard to say which one worked the best one its own. I mean w/o bloodwork its nearly impossible. I would say that just by the way I felt, I recovered faster with the clomid. (again hard to say b/c all things were not equal)
    I have only used nolva post cycle once on its own. I have used clomid post cycle many times.

    First thing I want to say is there were not that many differences to which I could tell. I still got acne on the nolva. No mood swings, but depression was......as usually for me post cycle. Nolva does not fuck with my eyes, which clomid seems to do.

    The last couple of cycles I ran were fairly long in length, and I didn't use hcg(never do). I decided to run nolva at 20mg per day for the entire 3 weeks, and clomid at the standard 300,100,50. I felt great after the last week on nolva and clomid, even more so than I usually do. Thats when I decided to use it EVERYTIME, and will so from now on. Some things just cant be explained easily. Over the years I have learned to know my body to a 'T'. I'm not saying that this will work for everyone, but I plan to finish every other cycle I do this way.

  19. #19
    Novice Essex boy's Avatar
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    Swale, can clomid damage your eyes permanently if you get blurred vision etc while taking it?

  20. #20
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    I have two studies right in front of me which show Clomid is associated with optic neuropathy and prolonged visual disturbances, which may be irreversible.

    I am now moving my patients away from Clomid in favor of Nolvadex, for this reason.

    Arch Ophthalmol 1995 Apr;113(4):482-4

    Fertil Steril Feb;61(2):390-1

  21. #21
    I am banned! Drveejay11's Avatar
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    Originally posted by SWALE
    Ya, who knows? Just because we can't think of a reason why NOW, doesn't mean it isn't true. I mean, if enough guys try it both ways, and report using both SERM's together is better, then, in my opinion, we HAVE TO take note of that. Lots of ground-breaking thinking has occurred that way.
    I agree

  22. #22
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    I am in week 4 on my recovery with both clomid and n-dex. I finished my cycle 4.5 weeeks ago, which included Test/d-bol/tren for 12 weeks. Tren for the last 6. I used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) @ 500ius every 4-5 days and I have been using the combo. I am almost done and my sex drive is back in full swing. I am really excited about my recovery, as I was sweating coming off of tren, since my horrible experience with deca!

  23. #23
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    Lawnsaver--Were you able to maintain your testes on the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) protocol? Did you start it in the first week?

  24. #24
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    Yes, my testicles didnt shrink at all! I used 500-750ius every 4-5 days and was able to maintian my size. Note that my atrophy is still there, but there wasnt any additonal atrophy at all. I am truely pleased with my recovery as I was on a heavy cycle.

    Week 1 to 16: 12.5mg of aromasin
    Week 1 to 6: 1000mg of Enan
    Week 1 to 6: 35mg of D-bol
    Week 7 to 12: 75mg of proviron ED
    Week 7 to 12: 75mg of fina EOD
    Week 7 to 12: 150mg of prop EOD
    Week 13 to 16: Clomid/N-dex therapy

    My recovery has been solid. I will be getting blood work done after 4-5 weeks off my HPTA therapy. I will be trying to have a baby within the next few months!

    I will be using a small dose of proviron, avena sativa, Maca, and inositol during the time we will be trying!

  25. #25
    Community Veteran JohnnyB's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Clomid AND Nolvadex post cycle?
    Originally posted by DRveejay11
    I recovered 20-30% quicker/ 10% better overall using BOTH.

    Everytime I do a tren cycle....I chose recover with BOTH.

    It seems like over-kill........but maybe there's something to this overkill???!!!!!?!?!?!?
    What doses do you use?

    JohnnyB

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