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  1. #1
    Allmost Good Looking Green888's Avatar
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    That facts og HGH ?
    hey all.

    in the near future i should get my hands on 1000iu of jintropin.

    now, i have read a lot about the use of HGH and what to run with it.
    i have desided to run the HGH for about a year and sometime in the middle do a 12 week cycle of test.

    i am however a little confused about the dose to use, the number of days to use it.
    people dont seem to agree about the 2 things.
    the info i get in various forums and at my gym varies a lot.

    some say 3-4 iu ED 7 days a week, some say 4-5 iu EOD injected IM before training gave very good results.

    my question to the "HGH gurus" :
    using facts, not rumors, what is the smartest way for me to dose this HGH, when i dont want to use anything else ?

    right now my plan is 4 iu 5 days a week (weekends off) for about a year !

    what dose ?
    how many days ?
    IM vs. SUBQ ?


    thx for your time
    Green888

  2. #2
    Juiced bmass's Avatar
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    you dont need more then 4-5iu´s and usually when people use gh 5on 2off thats because they want to save money and make the gh last longer you can also do 6on 1off either is good there is not such a big difference but i have never heard anyone use gh eod and last Sq injections most defenetly you get better absorbtion with sq injections im not sure now how much but i think when you inject sq 80% is absorbed and with IM only 65% something like that.
    Last edited by bmass; 09-02-2005 at 12:23 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Veteran JohnnyB's Avatar
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    If you want to go a year you'll need to inject 5 on 2 of, that'll get the closest to a year as your going to get with 1000iu. 3-iu is fine, split the dose in to 2 shots, 1 in the am, 1 in the pm (before bed)

    JohnnyB

  4. #4
    Allmost Good Looking Green888's Avatar
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    thx for the info.....what is the reason for splitting the dose in 2 shots ?

    does anyone second the SQ over IM injections ?

    so there is no physical reason for using HGH 7 days a week ?

  5. #5
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    definately go w/ SQ. 2 doses equals more consistant levels because GH has a relatively short half life.
    NO reason what so ever not to supplement ED, but lately I have been hearing that EOD w/ double the dose eg 6ius, monday then wednesday verses 3ius monday and tuesday ect...is more efficient. No solid evidence that I know of just speculation.

  6. #6
    Amateur Bodybuilder cubanojoe's Avatar
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    Some people say the most your body can use at one time is 2IU's.

    Whatever dose you are going to take start off with a very low dose and work your way up to what you want to take. I started off at to high a dose and all my joints are killing me from it, so you should learn from my mistake.

    If you have the money run it 7 days a week, but if you are going to do 4 IU's a day you will need more then 10 kits of Jin.

  7. #7
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    StoneColdNTO's Avatar
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    Sub-q us definitely the way to go.

    If doing 4iu or less, inject it all in the morning, that way it will not interfere with your natural production at night.
    Stone Cold..............................Never Too Old



    Disclaimer: Steroidology.com does not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information we share is for entertainment purposes only.

  8. #8
    Amateur Bodybuilder cubanojoe's Avatar
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    this was covered in another thread. Any time you take HGH it can take up to 20 hours for your liver to produce IGF and therfore your natural test production will be halted when you use synthic stuff. If this is right or wrong I am not sure but I think Jonny posted this info in another thread.

  9. #9
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    Hmmmmm

    I thought the point of 5 on/2 off was so that one doesn't interfere with their own GH production.

    Also it is my understanding that the worst time to take it is late in the evening before bed because that would interfere with your own natural production as well (which we produce at night while sleeping).

  10. #10
    Allmost Good Looking Green888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyArt
    Hmmmmm

    I thought the point of 5 on/2 off was so that one doesn't interfere with their own GH production.


    i have heard the same thing...but a have heard a lot of things !
    is it a fact ? or speculation ?

    anyone ?

    another question : my source can also get IGF-1 Long R3, but i dont know anyone that have tried it.

    have any of you guys tried it ? is it all that or what ?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Green888; 09-03-2005 at 03:33 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyArt
    Hmmmmm

    I thought the point of 5 on/2 off was so that one doesn't interfere with their own GH production.

    Also it is my understanding that the worst time to take it is late in the evening before bed because that would interfere with your own natural production as well (which we produce at night while sleeping).

    It will interfere w/ natural GH production regardless, thats why most will suggest splitting up the dose through out the day. IMO thats like saying if you take test in the A.M. you'll be back to normal in the P.M. Your body is going to adapt to any synthetic hormones period. I would just go w/ a tried and true method....start w/ 2ius in the morning, then work your way up to 2-3 in the A.M. and the same in the afternoon.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pux888
    It will interfere w/ natural GH production regardless, thats why most will suggest splitting up the dose through out the day. IMO thats like saying if you take test in the A.M. you'll be back to normal in the P.M. Your body is going to adapt to any synthetic hormones period. I would just go w/ a tried and true method....start w/ 2ius in the morning, then work your way up to 2-3 in the A.M. and the same in the afternoon.

    Hmmm

    I should have been clearer. My understanding is that taking the weekend off (5/2 split) was a precaution against shutting down your bodys GH production completely. That a few days off kept your body from abandoning inate production altogether. Now whether its effective or not I have no idea. But that seems to be the consensus opinion from all I have read. And that seven day usage is unadvisable.

  13. #13
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    Most that run 5 on with 2 off are simply trying to save cash.

  14. #14
    Amateur Bodybuilder cubanojoe's Avatar
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    5 on and 2 off is just for saving cash. If you can afford it run it 7 days a week.

  15. #15
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    Would it then make sense to boost or rev ones natural GH production by doing heavy squats on empty first thing in the morning during the weekeds?

  16. #16
    Allmost Good Looking Green888's Avatar
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    hehe...i see i run into the same 'ol problem :

    rumors vs. facts

    im a little conserned about shutting down my bodys GH production.
    is it a valid problem ?

  17. #17
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    (Copied and Pasted)


    EOD GH injections are better!..... study says

    A very thorough well controlled 4 year study published on
    The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87, No.8 3573-3577
    clearly shows every other day (EOD) hGH injections to be much more beneficial in
    the long run to everyday injections. Everyday injections seems to drastically lower
    your body's sensitivity to it's own GH secretion. The study included children with idiopathic
    short stature, but can be ever casting on us, normal non-deficient hGH individuals who
    may use hGH periodically for bodybuilding, sports and health purposes.

    The 38 children were divided into 2 groups:
    Group I received daily hGH injections.
    Group II received alternate day hGH injections.

    It is important to note that the total weekly dosage of hGH
    was the same for both groups.

    Both groups received the hGH therapy contiguously for 2 years.
    Their natural growth was followed for an additional 2 years after hGH therapy ended.
    They were all measured at 3-month intervals during the 4 years period (2 years
    with hGH therapy and 2 years after). Their Serum GH was measured by double antibody RIA kit.

    During hGH therapy, both groups accelerated their growth substantially.
    Group I receiving the daily hGH injections first & second year velocity was 3.4 and 2.3 SD
    Group II receiving the alternate hGH inj. had 3.0 and 2.0 SD for first and second year respectively.

    Over the initial 6 months after withdrawal of therapy, growth velocity decelerated to a low nadir -3.9 SD score
    for the daily therapy group, whereas it decelerated in the alternate day group to only -0.2 SD score.

    During the 2 years off therapy, the later group (taking EOD injections)
    maintained growth rates of -0.2 to -1.2 SD score, which is similar to their SD score prior to the hGH treatment.
    The daily group also recovered but very slowly, on the fourth semiannual evaluation off therapy.
    The cumulative 4-year growth velocity (2yrs on and 2 yrs off therapy) of the alternate day group was greater
    than that of the daily therapy group (mean, 0.9 vs. 0.3 SD score).

    At the end of the 4-yr therapy period, the adult height prediction of the alternate day group was greater
    than that of the daily group by a mea of 6.5cm (that's over 2.5" in height, quite a lot of difference)

    In even simpler English, to translate what it may mean to us is that using hGH everyday will only
    negligibly give better short-term results. Yet using alternate day hGH will give radically better long-term
    results and much better recovery. As the body may get back to homeostasis much faster.

    Remember the two groups got the same weekly total hGH dosage,
    so your every other day hGH injections would be twice as if you used
    it every day.

    The researchers said, the dose was of less impotency than the schedule of the injections.
    Daily hGH therapy for 3 years caused subnormal growth persisting for 1.5 years (very bad)

    It may be that the problem is not enough hGH or IGF-1 secretion but rather
    the body's decreased sensitivity to it. The interesting part is that the serum GH levels
    and serum IGF-I and IGF-binding protein remained unaffected or relatively mutely affected.
    Even your body's endogenous pulsatile secretion of GH resumes within just days
    even after long-term hGH therapy.

    The researchers hypothesis is that the tolerance may be in the "GH signal transduction in
    selective target organs in response to the disappearance of the unique pulsatile
    pattern of serum GH during GH therapy". You see, hGH taken via sc injections
    do not imitate the your body's own GH secretion.
    "Indeed, daily sc administration of GH results in an unphysiological serum GH profile, with peak
    levels at 4 h and a slow decline over the course of the following 12–24 h. This pattern can be
    regarded as continuous administration, rather than the physiological GH pulses,
    with a frequency of about eight per day."
    "Assuming that the withdrawal syndrome is related to tolerance that might have developed toward
    hGH or IGF-I, we tried to prevent it by alternate day treatment. Moreover, hGH doses used in
    therapy often stimulate IGF-I to supraphysiological serum levels, suggesting that target
    tissues IGF-I may also be higher than normal. The mechanism seems, therefore, to rest
    with hGH and IGF-I action at their target tissues. We now show that alternate day therapy
    with hGH in children with an intact GH-IGF-I axis prevents the withdrawal syndrome"

    Researchers mark the analogy to another endocrine tolerance and withdrawal syndrome:
    "alternate day therapy with glucocoricoids prevents tolerance to that hormone to a substantial degree,
    "Interestingly, glucocoricoids withdrawal syndrome can also occur while the
    hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis is intact (, indicating that tolerance to glucocoricoids has developed
    at the target organ level (9). "

    An example of a good safe protocol to follow in my opinion could be

    hGH taken for 4 months (16 weeks) or more at 8IU every other day,
    split to 4IU three hours after waking up (say 11:00am)
    and another 4IU taken 4 hours later (say 3:00pm).
    This approach is quite conservative and may be optimal.

    Obviously, you may extend past 4months, and take more IUs per day.
    This approach goes with 8IU EOD, so it is equivalent to folks that would
    otherwise go with 4IU ED, which is what most do.

    There is some controversy as to how many of these IUs the body
    can utilize at once

    Obviously, there are lot of studies, some better conducted, some less.
    Lots of opinions and doctrines in endocrinology, bodybuilding etc..
    So you should make your own decision, I guess old individuals on
    hGH for life would not mind, as no rebound would affect them. Professional
    bodybuilders probably wouldn't mind as well.

    I would rather follow a protocol like this. For most part due to the
    nasty rebound that I could get after withdrawing from long-term ED hGH treatment.
    Nothing worse then look awesome, stop hGH then after several months having:
    Low body sensitivity to your own body's GH.
    Slow recovery
    Decline in resting cardiac output
    Increase fat mass
    Decrease in ********* rate
    Negative nitrogen balance, phosphorus, sodium and potassium.

    Again, I said "could" not "would", because this study cannot absolutely manifest
    our use of hGH. Moreso, we are not children, we are not idiopathic hGH deficient
    and not aGHD. But since the weekly dosages do remain the same as well as the
    duration of the hGH usage. Just changing to the EOD protocol from the well
    hyped everyday inj protocol is worth in my honest opinion. It seems statistically
    a better bet, with more chance to win, than loose as opposed to the ED protocol.

    I just tried to summarize the findings of the study, which was by the way,
    a pleasure to read as the study is well written and was prepared by
    Dr Hochberg, MD, a renowned well respected figure in endocrinology.

    You can read the full article with all the graphs and details here:
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/8/3573
    With references to 23 studies.

    Here are some interesting graphs:

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/conten...g0828721002.gif
    This graph shows the difference growth velocity difference pre GH treatment, and at the
    end of the trial, 4 years after (2 years after withdrawal from GH treatment)
    The dark bar marks the alternate day injections. The light bar marks the every day injections,
    note that the every day injections group saw worse long-term (4 yrs) results as opposed
    to the alternate day group.

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/conten...g0828721003.gif
    This graph shows the annual bone age advancement in children treated with
    alternate GH injections and daily injections.
    The light bar marks the every day injections, the dark bar the alternate day injections.
    In first two years (the years they were taking hGH), take a look at the relatively
    small advantage ED injections gave over the EOD inj, as opposed to the 2 years
    after withdrawal of the treatment. The EOD group shows
    Online!

  18. #18
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    That's a study that supports injecting EOD. Till now most suggested 5 on 2 off for the same reason, although given the study EOD may be a better way to go.

    Shooting 7 days a week is not a smart thing to do

  19. #19
    Amateur Bodybuilder cubanojoe's Avatar
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    Your body will be shut down from GH no matter how many days you do it a week, 5,6 or 7. After you discontinue the GH your body will go back to whatever your normal production is. The older you get the less you put out. If your in your 40's the amount your body naturally produces is squat anyways so it would not matter.

  20. #20
    not a wigger jediclampet's Avatar
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    I would like to hear from people that have tried both ways (ED and EOD) to see how they compare the two protocols - both in terms of results and in terms of post cycle recovery.

  21. #21
    Allmost Good Looking Green888's Avatar
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    nice post jerseyart...very interesting read !

    Thx.

    ...i second jediclampet's request !
    will the bodys shutdown be as severe, as if it was a steriod cycle (say: test-deca for 10 weeks).
    i know its not the same..but will you feel just as weak ?

    i dont know IRL anyone that have done more than a 4 month cycle HGH.
    they did not report any noticeble shutdown !

  22. #22
    Amateur Bodybuilder cubanojoe's Avatar
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    I am currently doing ED injection at 4 IU's except when I cycle IGF and then I bump it down to 2 IU's everyday.

    Do not know anyone that has done EOD injections, just the 5 on 2 off or 6 on 1 off methods for the last 2 years.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyArt
    That's a study that supports injecting EOD. Till now most suggested 5 on 2 off for the same reason, although given the study EOD may be a better way to go.

    Shooting 7 days a week is not a smart thing to do
    i dont see how you can say supplementing ED is not a good idea, if your gonna go down that road then you probably shouldnt dable in GH at all. also i doubt that more than a few here could afford to go on GH for years at a time. Again its really simple, work your way up from one A.M. injection to 2 times a day, ED.

  24. #24
    G.F.H. Bruce Banner's Avatar
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    It won't matter when you inject the GH, you will shut down anyway.

    This has been discussed many times in this fourm by some of the smartest head around. Do a search if you want to read more.

    GH itself is noit respensible for the shutdown, elevated IGF-1 is and it will be elavated för over 20 h after injection.

    http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ll/276/6/E1009

    /Bruce

  25. #25
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    RE: GH 5 days on Weekends off. 2 Month on; one month off. I KNOW! I go to
    a clinic....

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