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  1. #1
    s.d
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    What is the truth?...is test really a MUST???...PLEASE HELP
    Hi everyone...so just to state, i am a complete noob when it comes to gear, that's why i would greatly appreciate if someone can finally explain to me this great debate that i am reading about. The question is is whether test is really a must (especially for first few cycles) or can orals for example be taken alone? Some experienced guys here are practically attacking people who talk about cycles without test, whereas other people are talking about oral only cycles with great results and no problems...so, can someone please very simply explain to me why is test a MUST??...i have read all the advice and stickies, and practically all that i could conclude is that all steroids shut down natural test production and that you need test to be a man. But then again, doesn't test itself also suppress natural test production? So if for example some is running dbol and test, wouldn't it be more suppressive then just running dbol?

    Sorry for the stupid question guys, but i really need some help as i have made an earlier mistake with aas and now would like to do it the right way. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Amateur Bodybuilder Jack Tors's Avatar
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    it shuts down natty test the part your missing is u replace natty test w injectable test, cant b done w orals

  3. #3
    Jacked and Tan MeatHead96's Avatar
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    You should at least run a TRT dose of test with any cycle. Any AAS will shut down your natty production of test, which will cause a lot of negative side effects if you don't replace it. You could have libido problems, ED, fatigue, etc, etc. Not to mention the fact that what your taking may or may not be strong enough to be worth shutting you down over.

  4. #4
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    Wait who here got great results off oral only cycles...*looks around*...stop being scared of needles. I feel you answered your own question in your post though. ^_^
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  5. #5
    Proud supporter AML, Ca size_matters's Avatar
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    Hey, welcome to ology. by reading your thread I wish I could answer in person, would be much easier than writing it.
    Basically when vets & other rec. aas users here ''attack'' people who question using test as a base is mostly because the newbies usually think they're right and answer with stupid arguments that make no sense in the use of aas, but in their heads it makes sense.

    anyways now to talk about test as base for everything!

    not just orals but injectables like deca, tren, EQ etc. ran without test suppresses your natty test, if you only do a oral cycle, lets say dbol, the max. time for dbol IMO would be 6-8wks @ 40 to 60mg ED, & 8 wks would be pushing it, if you don't use test as a base (even with TRT dose) after 3-4 wks you'll end up actually have less results than being natty because the lower the test the more of a ''women'' you become (figure speech) and natty womens don't grow a lot of muscles. as for if you use test you'll be using it for 12wks min. and it will be well worth it because its TEST. no shutdown DURING the cycle because your body uses synthetic test as if it was its own. then afterwards you do pct and re-start natty test with post cycle therapy (pct). but if you do only orals or injectable AAS without test, you'll be shutdown during cycle therefor reducing your gains and giving you less than what you started with (speaking from experience here man) back in the day I used to cycle PH then did 1 and only 1 oral only cycle (var & epistane) that shut me down hard and ended up losing about 10lbs with a 5 week cycle, had no sex drive, felt depressed etc. and once you're shutdown you're shutdown (you cant shut a light twice can you?) so dbol + test isn't gonna be worst than dbol alone because you'll still have the synthetic test within!

    I hope you understand this, I mean, if you're gonna spend money in gear why not make it worth it? why not go with test 1st. if you're scared to inject, keep in mind its only the very first injection that seems scary, after you inject for the first time you'll see its nothing. If you can't get test then stay natty IMO.

    I hope you understand this post. I'm french and tried to explain it the best I could. any questions just ask I'll do my best to give you advice!

    now rep me up for that long post haha
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  6. #6
    s.d
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    aaa ok, thanks size_matters a lot!! I get it now, this is what i needed. As for injecting test i'm not scared (have injected Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for instance so it can't be much different), but the only reason i was reluctant is because i always want to use the minimum amount of various gear and was confused whether i can get away with orals only, but now that i get the concept of test i plan to do a cycle with it. In relation to that, just one last question for you, what would you suggest for a first test cycle, test prop or test e? I am being told that maybe prop is the way to go as i really don't want that bloated look and i am not looking for big gains at all, but would like smaller gains with a defined look (with a proper diet ofc). So what do you think, prop?
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  7. #7
    Proud supporter AML, Ca size_matters's Avatar
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    You welcome dude! I'm glad to see you're not gonna answer with some random nonsense like I saw a lot of noobs do here, you're obviously smarter than them lol.

    give me would stats and I'll be able to help you more (age, height, weight, bf %, years lifting & diet)

    but my first test cycle was test E @ 500mg/wk for 14 wks and I LOVED it!! trust me, if your body fat % is under 12-14% you'll see amazing results, mine was under 10% at the time and I got veins, striations in my shoulders, size and strength!! I then fell in love with test. lol but yeah you'll love it too man, I'm sure of that. test prop has to be injected EOD which can be a pain (literally) during your first cycle because of virgin muscles (after you inject a few times in the same muscle then the pain is a lot less) pretty much gets to the point where you don't feel any pain after injecting.


    Good luck, let me know what your stats are and what you decide to do!!

  8. #8
    Proud supporter AML, Ca size_matters's Avatar
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    if you check out my thread ''video of me'' the first video is me when the test kicked in (about 5 wks in)


    Video of me

    let me know what you think!

  9. #9
    s.d
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    age:22
    height: 180cm
    weight: 79kg
    bf: 11%
    training for around 4 years

    Well i have decided to now certainly do a test cycle, the only decision is test e or prop...now i know that prop is maybe a hassle to inject but i really have nothing against injecting every other day. And i have been told that prop can give more lean mass and less bloat, this is actually the only reason why i would use it, is this true? If not, if test is just test, then yeah, i wouldn't hassle myself, probably would do test e like you...

  10. #10
    Proud supporter AML, Ca size_matters's Avatar
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    your stats are pretty close to mine when I first started.
    do you drink alcohol (to get drunk) on a regular basis or take drugs? (I hope not) lol if you do it really hinders your gains.

    as for test I would go with test E, you'll barely see any difference between both except for prop acts faster, if you bf % is 11 then you'll def. enjoy the test E ride, it'll lower your bf even more (by a few %) you'll get bigger (not super huge but reasonable gains) and stronger, details in the muscles, veins etc. I'd personally go with test E, but its totally your choice.

    PCT, I'd rec. clomid 100/100/50/50 & if you used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) before, why not?

    Good luck! & enjoy the ride

  11. #11
    s.d
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    Yeah the alcohol was kind of a big problem up until recently, but i completely stopped a few weeks ago especially since i plan on cycling. Thanks m8 for all the help!!...i will order the stuff tomorrow and hopefully start in a few days
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  12. #12
    Proud supporter AML, Ca size_matters's Avatar
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    good for you dude! I also quit drinking in november of '09. had a big problem with alcohol.

    Get some Aromatase inhibitor (AI) too (estrogen blocker) like aromasin or arimidex & start using it when you start your cycle arimidex @ 0.25mg/day or aromasin 12.5mg/day

  13. #13
    Pro Bodybuilder brother bundy's Avatar
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    test makes me feel awesome why anyone would not want this beautiful compound in every cycle is crazy to me
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by size_matters View Post
    your stats are pretty close to mine when I first started.
    do you drink alcohol (to get drunk) on a regular basis or take drugs? (I hope not) lol if you do it really hinders your gains.

    as for test I would go with test E, you'll barely see any difference between both except for prop acts faster, if you bf % is 11 then you'll def. enjoy the test E ride, it'll lower your bf even more (by a few %) you'll get bigger (not super huge but reasonable gains) and stronger, details in the muscles, veins etc. I'd personally go with test E, but its totally your choice.

    PCT, I'd rec. clomid 100/100/50/50 & if you used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) before, why not?

    Good luck! & enjoy the ride
    Define drugs?
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  15. #15
    Eager student Hrnyfckr's Avatar
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    Simply, dude, Test is King. Tren is his Queen. Deca is the prince. D-Bol is just the court jester. Look at any pro BB cycle. Test is the biggest and strongest component. Go big or go home. I learned this the hard way when I ran a "fashionable" Tren higher than Test cycle. I had no mojo! I wasn't the "animal" I wanted or needed to be. And gains were lagging. Dude, I upped the Test and POW! Back in the game, big time!
    Use Arimidex(anastrozole) to deal with the bloat. But don't deny the King his throne.... Ever!
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  16. #16
    Proud supporter AML, Ca size_matters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thades View Post
    Define drugs?
    you don't know what drugs are? coke, weed, speed, prescription pills (not prescribed to you) heroin etc...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by size_matters View Post
    you don't know what drugs are? coke, weed, speed, prescription pills (not prescribed to you) heroin etc...
    Just curious what your definition was, think there is a big difference between occasionally smoking weed, which I don't see how that hurts you or your training, and doing blow all the time

  18. #18
    Pro Bodybuilder brother bundy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thades View Post
    Just curious what your definition was, think there is a big difference between occasionally smoking weed, which I don't see how that hurts you or your training, and doing blow all the time
    x1000 nothing wrong with some puff puff pass
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  19. #19
    Steroidologist clsmth700's Avatar
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    the old school arnold schwarzenegger body building videos show him smoking weed

  20. #20
    Proud supporter AML, Ca size_matters's Avatar
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    I know, I too smoke weed once in a while, mostly on the odd saturday I feel like relaxing. but weed makes you lazy tho, back a few years ago I would smoke a lot of weed and spend all my money on it. would smoke 3-4 times a day, and it did make me lazy...
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  21. #21
    Pro Bodybuilder brother bundy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by size_matters View Post
    I know, I too smoke weed once in a while, mostly on the odd saturday I feel like relaxing. but weed makes you lazy tho, back a few years ago I would smoke a lot of weed and spend all my money on it. would smoke 3-4 times a day, and it did make me lazy...
    it dont make me lazy everyone is different I guess
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  22. #22
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    ^^^^only makes you lazy if you're in the wrong mindset, at least for me. End of a long day, everything checked off the checklist, why not?
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  23. #23
    Proud supporter AML, Ca size_matters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thades View Post
    ^^^^only makes you lazy if you're in the wrong mindset, at least for me. End of a long day, everything checked off the checklist, why not?
    yes I know, once a while is all right and wont make you lazy, try smoking some 3-4x a day every day. Majority of people who do in this town are on welfare & don't work, even if they're fully able mentally & physically to work.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaper86 View Post
    Wait who here got great results off oral only cycles...*looks around*...stop being scared of needles. I feel you answered your own question in your post though. ^_^

    superdrol put 9 pounds of lean muscle on me back in the day....wish i hadn't been a puss and pinned with it....but none the less i kept the results and didn't really experience any sides other than a little acne

    it definitely isn't worth doing an oral without test though....my gains would have been much much much better with it

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by size_matters View Post
    I know, I too smoke weed once in a while, mostly on the odd saturday I feel like relaxing. but weed makes you lazy tho, back a few years ago I would smoke a lot of weed and spend all my money on it. would smoke 3-4 times a day, and it did make me lazy...
    THIS!!!! LOL

    and it made me fucking fat
    size_matters likes this.

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