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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 360 View Post
    For what it's worth I started at 5'9", 117 lbs when I was 15. 7 years later I'm 6', 200 lbs around 12% bf. I end up around 186-188 on a cut. I haven't reached Arnold status or anything, but I think I did okay considering what I started with. So yes, I do believe you can get pretty far naturally, even when you have a shitty base to start with.
    With all due respect bro you don't know what a shitty base is and I think that's why we are having a failure to communicate. To start with you were only 15 years old so of course you were not done growing yet with or without working out and the fact that you grew 3 more inches in height of course you got bigger. You were still growing. You made it to 6 feet tall and 200lbs that's not a shitty base. A shitty base is at thirty years old being 117lbs after attempting weight lifting and dieting over and over again just to still look in the mirror at a pitiful frail exteroir barely resembling a man. It's sad but there are tons of guys out there that can recite this same thing to you as their life experience. Steroids are probably the best thing that ever happened to me. I don't give a shit what anybody says. Steroids are a life decision. If you are going to use them it is probably going to be for the rest of your life whether you are twenty, thirty, or forty when you start...

  2. #27
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    Hi guys I know I have been absent for a while here on ology. Work, new car, summer, baby, working out, shows... no time for internet stuff.... anyhow

    OP, if you want to compete seriously weigh the risks and rewards of doing juice. Abuse will lead to life long problems and if you INDEED wish to compete you will almost certainly end up abusing AAS.

    No matter what your choice is, research AAS and continue to do so your whole BBing career. This is no laughing matter and you need to be armed to the teeth with knowledge if you are gonna make it out in one peice.

    You should wait until your 24-25, but at least wait until you are comfortable with the amount of knowledge you have obtained through your OWN research.

    I beleive you when you say your serious because your diet plan looks pretty good. Remember you don't have this figured out yet. @ 22 you still don't know which foods are optimal for LBM gains, straight bulks, or cuts. In time you will find out and the only point here is remember to experiment a little.

    Your diet and lifestyle determine your physique, not juice. GL and take care of the only body you will ever have.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlupi319 View Post
    FUCK EXCUSES

    I went from 5'8 215lbs PURE FAT to 5'8 145lbs SKIN n BONES. currently sitting @ 170lbs 10%bf---> FUCKING EAT HEALTHY AND LIFT HEAVY SHIT---> Don't get me wrong gear is great but to make excuses like that are for pussies and no amount of gear will ever transform your mindset to where it needs to be i.e. believing in yourself and not making excuses to get out of putting in the blood, sweat, and tears. I was born and raised to be fat, scrawny, short, slow, and weak..but I can out work lazy bitches with natural talent--> that's my mindset
    Bro lazy bitches and natural talent don't even go together. If a person is a lazy bitch then obviously they are missing something naturally. You said making excuses is for pussies but that is my point exactly except being a pussy isn't a choice, who the fuck chooses to be a pussy. Being a pussy is a result of the chemical, hormonal, and genetic composition of your body. Not everything you do is a decision but often it is a result of your condition. Let's lower your triiodothyronine level and see where your mindset is at then, or how about let's increase your myostatin levels and see how far you get with just your blood, sweat, and tears. And for all you guys on this thread, Arnold is everybody's idol and he was doing steroids when he was a fucking teenager so pull your head out of your ass...

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan_andrew View Post
    Bro lazy bitches and natural talent don't even go together. If a person is a lazy bitch then obviously they are missing something naturally. You said making excuses is for pussies but that is my point exactly except being a pussy isn't a choice, who the fuck chooses to be a pussy. Being a pussy is a result of the chemical, hormonal, and genetic composition of your body. Not everything you do is a decision but often it is a result of your condition. Let's lower your triiodothyronine level and see where your mindset is at then, or how about let's increase your myostatin levels and see how far you get with just your blood, sweat, and tears. And for all you guys on this thread, Arnold is everybody's idol and he was doing steroids when he was a fucking teenager so pull your head out of your ass...
    Ok Im going to say it FUCK ARNOLD ya thats right I said it.
    Last edited by brother bundy; 07-08-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan_andrew View Post
    With all due respect bro you don't know what a shitty base is and I think that's why we are having a failure to communicate. To start with you were only 15 years old so of course you were not done growing yet with or without working out and the fact that you grew 3 more inches in height of course you got bigger. You were still growing. You made it to 6 feet tall and 200lbs that's not a shitty base. A shitty base is at thirty years old being 117lbs after attempting weight lifting and dieting over and over again just to still look in the mirror at a pitiful frail exteroir barely resembling a man. It's sad but there are tons of guys out there that can recite this same thing to you as their life experience. Steroids are probably the best thing that ever happened to me. I don't give a shit what anybody says. Steroids are a life decision. If you are going to use them it is probably going to be for the rest of your life whether you are twenty, thirty, or forty when you start...
    I can respect that. And I forgot to mention in my post that while I started out small, I do have very good muscle insertions and bone structure, so what you're saying does make sense.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErectusMaximus View Post
    Hi guys I know I have been absent for a while here on ology. Work, new car, summer, baby, working out, shows... no time for internet stuff.... anyhow

    OP, if you want to compete seriously weigh the risks and rewards of doing juice. Abuse will lead to life long problems and if you INDEED wish to compete you will almost certainly end up abusing AAS.

    No matter what your choice is, research AAS and continue to do so your whole BBing career. This is no laughing matter and you need to be armed to the teeth with knowledge if you are gonna make it out in one peice.

    You should wait until your 24-25, but at least wait until you are comfortable with the amount of knowledge you have obtained through your OWN research.

    I beleive you when you say your serious because your diet plan looks pretty good. Remember you don't have this figured out yet. @ 22 you still don't know which foods are optimal for LBM gains, straight bulks, or cuts. In time you will find out and the only point here is remember to experiment a little.

    Your diet and lifestyle determine your physique, not juice. GL and take care of the only body you will ever have.
    Thanks for your input bro. I'll be turning 23 in Oct and will probably wait another year or so till I start any gear.

  7. #32
    Who dares wins! TheFitnessLife4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan_andrew View Post
    I agree with you guys, sort of. I know that some guys who are small with hard work and proper diet and with time can get in shape and get results worth bragging about. I don't even question though that there are some guys who will never make this transformation without steroids. You guys don't give enough credit to steroids. You want to believe you're getting big all on your own that's fine then stop using steroids then if you really believe that. Do you ever wonder why so many people who go to the gym go for a while and then quit and then start back for a while and then quit again and back and forth like that. Why do these people lack the motivation and the dedication to continue working out consistently. Is it because you have more heart and determination than them and they just don't have the same grit and heart that you do, bullshit. Steroids don't just make your muscles grow bigger faster they effect very much the way you feel and the way you think. I am proof of that. Off gear I don't want or feel like lifting the remote to watch t.v. for a workout but on gear I'm an animal, a beast, I'm more motivated or just as motivated as anyone. For what ever reason you don't like hearing it but some guys who can work out naturally maybe gear is just that little edge in the gym but for some guys gear is 90% of it and the catalyst for their transformation from a boy to a man. And just because some skinny guy turned himself into a muscular guy naturally doesn't mean that everyone can do it. Not everyone is the same. You don't know what it's like to be in someone elses body. Genetics, hormones, and body composition is different for everyone.
    I strongly disagree. The dumbasses that go to the gym and don't get results it is because of their diet, sleeping, and training, and dedication. If you really naive enough to think that if you do all that, you won't get results then you honestly have no clue what your talking about. If you cant do it naturally, you sure as hell have no business juicing. AAS is for EXPERIENCED athletes and bodybuilders who put in the time and work without crying like a pussy if they stood at a plateau. Its a test to see if you have what it takes to be a bodybuilder and I'd say 80-90% of the people in the gym don't. This shuts not for beginners or for dumbasses who don't do the research and science behind dieting an training.

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    You fucking guys lol. I met a 48 year old woman one time that looked like the incredible hulk. It's hard enough for a man that age to be built without steroids but this was a woman and at that age. Bro it's all steroids, I've been doing gear for a while and I can do nothing but eat twinkies and only get exercise from brushing my hair and grow new muscle off the gear. It can turn a nerd into a jock, a woman into a man, a man into a beast. Have you ever looked at some of the pictures of body builders who juiced and then saw the pictures of what they looked like after they came off gear. Look at some of those pictures the results are undeniable gear made them. They weren't jack shit without the gear. Accept it, embrace it, appreciate it...

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFitnessLife4ever View Post
    I strongly disagree. The dumbasses that go to the gym and don't get results it is because of their diet, sleeping, and training, and dedication. If you really naive enough to think that if you do all that, you won't get results then you honestly have no clue what your talking about. If you cant do it naturally, you sure as hell have no business juicing. AAS is for EXPERIENCED athletes and bodybuilders who put in the time and work without crying like a pussy if they stood at a plateau. Its a test to see if you have what it takes to be a bodybuilder and I'd say 80-90% of the people in the gym don't. This shuts not for beginners or for dumbasses who don't do the research and science behind dieting an training.
    I just realized from your post that your whole argument is that your special... 90% of people don't have what it takes to be a body builder but you do. Actually bro 100% of people have what it takes all they have to do is get juiced up the same as you. You're not special, you're just on steroids like every other meathead. Steroids is only for the special, the elite, like you right. Get off your high horse. If you're so fucking awesome like you say then good for you, in my view then you are the one who doesn't need steroids. It's the pussies, the geeks, the wimps, the ones who can't do it on their own that need it more than you do. You sound like one of those rich assholes that tells people only the rich deserve to be rich because they are special and chosen, when infact the poor people deserve a more equitable share of the wealth because they are poor not the other way around. Same with steroids people who are not in your special badass club need it more than anyone and should be first in line to see how gear can transform their bodies and their lives...

  10. #35
    Who dares wins! TheFitnessLife4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan_andrew View Post
    I just realized from your post that your whole argument is that your special... 90% of people don't have what it takes to be a body builder but you do. Actually bro 100% of people have what it takes all they have to do is get juiced up the same as you. You're not special, you're just on steroids like every other meathead. Steroids is only for the special, the elite, like you right. Get off your high horse. If you're so fucking awesome like you say then good for you, in my view then you are the one who doesn't need steroids. It's the pussies, the geeks, the wimps, the ones who can't do it on their own that need it more than you do. You sound like one of those rich assholes that tells people only the rich deserve to be rich because they are special and chosen, when infact the poor people deserve a more equitable share of the wealth because they are poor not the other way around. Same with steroids people who are not in your special badass club need it more than anyone and should be first in line to see how gear can transform their bodies and their lives...
    You have no fuckin clue what your talking about anymore lol. If everyone had the discipline to be a bodybuilder, then everyone in the gym would be huge. If you've ever been to a gym and have a pair of eyes you'd clearly see that 80-90% of people who go to the gym look the same they did a year ago. No bodybuilding doesnt require strong genetics. It requires willpower and discipline. Your a complete dumbass to believe everyone can be a bodybuilder. Do you even know what bodybuilding is lmao? You sound like those kids who think bodybuilding is just working out. Re evaluate your logic buddy.
    Last edited by TheFitnessLife4ever; 07-08-2012 at 06:40 PM.

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    Everybody doesn't look like a bodybuilder because not everybody is on gear that's why. Steroids is not easy for everyone to find or many more people would be on it believe that. If you knew anything about biochemistry you would understand that nothing you do really is willpower. That is a cultural construct. Science teaches us to know better than that. If I only but adjusted your myostatin level I could make you into a larger assortment of muscles than any body builder could ever be without you dieting one iota or working out at all and if I adjusted your myostatin levels the other way I could make you look like the wimpiest geek to ever live no matter how much you work out and diet. That is biochemistry. It is scientific fact. Hgh, testosterone, and thyronine play a role in muscle development as well, along with protein, creatine, l arginine, glutamine, along with a whole host of mineral, vitamins, chemicals, hormones. Hormones and neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, endorphins and others give you your so called willpower that you put so much importance on like it's a choice or a characteristic that is special and particular only to you. I'm sure you are a well intentioned person and a good person but you could benefit from learning a little bit about biology, chemistry, anatomy, physiology, molecular biology, biochemistry, physics, genetics, engineering, psychology... to get a better understanding of how things work and why people work the way they do. I understand that your argument is probably that I need to learn a little bit about kinesiology and nutrition. I do understand it rather well actually. I mean I don't have a degree in it but I understand the concept of diet and exercise...
    Last edited by ethan_andrew; 07-08-2012 at 09:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFitnessLife4ever View Post
    You have no fuckin clue what your talking about anymore lol. If everyone had the discipline to be a bodybuilder, then everyone in the gym would be huge. If you've ever been to a gym and have a pair of eyes you'd clearly see that 80-90% of people who go to the gym look the same they did a year ago. No bodybuilding doesnt require strong genetics. It requires willpower and discipline. Your a complete dumbass to believe everyone can be a bodybuilder. Do you even know what bodybuilding is lmao? You sound like those kids who think bodybuilding is just working out. Re evaluate your logic buddy.
    Men are more muscular than woman. Do you think that is because we work harder in the gym than they do or because we have better diets or because we have more will power than they do or because we are more educated about body building than they are. No it's biology, chemistry, it's as simple as that...

  13. #38
    Who dares wins! TheFitnessLife4ever's Avatar
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    Okay mr scientist. Men have more muscle due to testosterone. Every male produces it which gives them the ability to build muscle naturally. Yes, some have low test and need testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for results but an average guy can easily look good without drugs. I could look good without it but my goal is to look inhumanly muscular. You are wrong in most of your points do just give up. If willpower was so easy to have you'd see muscle heads every corner. Yes genetics play a role, but any average guy has the ability to look good of they know what the fuck they're doing. Just give up. I win brosky.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan_andrew View Post
    Everybody doesn't look like a bodybuilder because not everybody is on gear that's why. Steroids is not easy for everyone to find or many more people would be on it believe that. If you knew anything about biochemistry you would understand that nothing you do really is willpower. That is a cultural construct. Science teaches us to know better than that. If I only but adjusted your myostatin level I could make you into a larger assortment of muscles than any body builder could ever be without you dieting one iota or working out at all and if I adjusted your myostatin levels the other way I could make you look like the wimpiest geek to ever live no matter how much you work out and diet. That is biochemistry. It is scientific fact. Hgh, testosterone, and thyronine play a role in muscle development as well, along with protein, creatine, l arginine, glutamine, along with a whole host of mineral, vitamins, chemicals, hormones. Hormones and neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, endorphins and others give you your so called willpower that you put so much importance on like it's a choice or a characteristic that is special and particular only to you. I'm sure you are a well intentioned person and a good person but you could benefit from learning a little bit about biology, chemistry, anatomy, physiology, molecular biology, biochemistry, physics, genetics, engineering, psychology... to get a better understanding of how things work and why people work the way they do. I understand that your argument is probably that I need to learn a little bit about kinesiology and nutrition. I do understand it rather well actually. I mean I don't have a degree in it but I understand the concept of diet and exercise...
    ^10000+

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFitnessLife4ever View Post
    You have no fuckin clue what your talking about anymore lol. If everyone had the discipline to be a bodybuilder, then everyone in the gym would be huge. If you've ever been to a gym and have a pair of eyes you'd clearly see that 80-90% of people who go to the gym look the same they did a year ago. No bodybuilding doesnt require strong genetics. It requires willpower and discipline. Your a complete dumbass to believe everyone can be a bodybuilder. Do you even know what bodybuilding is lmao? You sound like those kids who think bodybuilding is just working out. Re evaluate your logic buddy.
    This cow knows how to train properly and knows everything about the "ultimate muscle growth nutrition" so, yeah following your logic this cow has bigger balls, more willpower and discipline than you, right? ---> Meet the Super Cow - YouTube
    I can bet my ass off you obviously have absolutely no idea how genes work, so stop spreading that bullshit.
    Last edited by User Name:; 07-09-2012 at 03:10 AM.

  15. #40
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    So by your logic everyone who runs gear is jacked n ripped? We can go both ways with this argument. Your opinion just seems like a cop out..your born in a situation-->cry cry cry-->work ethic means nothing-->I NEED GEAR TO GROW


    you think because of my hormones/neurotransmitters that hard work seems like fun? or that it isn't hard? Believe me I work my ass off and obsess over everything and the shit ain't fun, but it's my decision to make scarifies to make gains. Regardless of whether or not I'm on gear I know I have to make sacrifices to make gains because I'M NOT NATURALLY GIFTED--> no matter what I have to work hard.

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    Thank you user for posting that cow video. Damn I should have done that to make my point. mlupi everyone is different so I don't know what it is about your biochemistry that makes working out feel or seem so difficult to you but it is probably because you produce less endorphins during exercise than average. Endorphins make people feel happy and can create a feeling of euphoria. You probably also choose to work out inspite of it being so hard for you because your norepinephrene is a little high. Or could be some other cause. In my view because my body is different than yours when I'm on nothing then working out is very dreadful and hard to do but when I'm on gear then it is no longer difficult for me in fact I actually enjoy it, love it. I'm sure many people get this same experience from using gear but of course as you have pointed out not everyone is the same which I think helps to make my point. I agree right now hard work and proper nutrition is the way to build muscle along with increased levels of testosterone, hgh, protein, etc but this may very well soon be a thing of the past. The science and technology already exists in biomedicine and genetic modification to select the genetics you may wish to have for someone who will be born. They already do this with food. One application where they genetically modified vegetables to grow with their own natural pesticides to keep bugs away from them from eating them so that they don't have to be treated with chemical insecticides. In nano technology they are creating machine cells that can be injected into the blood stream to destroy free radicals to enhance and lengthen the life of a human being. You are infact a chemical machine and despite the concept of free will if we were to expose your brain to neurotoxins like bisphenol-a or mercury for example the neruons in your brain would degenerate causing you to become disfunctional mentally. Causing new information to become overwhelming and harder to process making you more irritable, altering your behavior and the way you think. mlupi319 if you are on gear and don't get ripped and jacked as you said then there is no doubt a biochemical explanation for this, simply because testosterone and it's derivatives are not the only chemicals or hormones that affect the human body. The pathology of you and everything about you can be traced back to a mineral or chemical or cell or an atom or molecule or compound acting in conjuction with various other elements to construct the biophysical programming of information into a single combination that is essentially Y O U... Think about everything you do throughout the day or your entire life. Think about it, how much do you choose to do versus what you are stimulated to do chemically. Do you choose to go to sleep or are selective receptors in your brain stimulated by the circadian rhythm of your body along with the signals sent from your optic nerve from the dimming of light to produce melotonin which induces sleep. Or do you eat because you want to or is it because of the sensation of hunger which is simply a signal sent from your stomach to your brain that your body needs more raw materials to create new cells from and new energy. Do you have sex because you really want to or because nature designated for you to be a male and for you to be attracted to females or perhaps in your case other males whatever floats you boat lol. And testosterone increases libido and the experience of desire which in turn leads to an erection and sex which releases dopamine in the brain reinforcing that sex equals pleasure so that you will want to do it again. Do you fight because you are angry or run because you are afraid or is it adrenaline signaling a fight or flight response throughout your nervous system. You piss because of pressure on your bladder, you shit because of pressure on your sphincter. And we can go on and on and on like this...
    Last edited by ethan_andrew; 07-09-2012 at 11:49 AM.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan_andrew View Post
    Do you fight because you are angry or run because you are afraid or is it adrenaline signaling a fight or flight response throughout your nervous system.
    Ok that was all bullshit. You are saying every choice that a person makes is outside of their control, it's just their bio-chem makeup. You are saying people shouldn't held accountable for their actions--> now think if people weren't held responsible for what they did--> what would happen?

    I quoted this small part of your bullshit post because I am a prime example of how your body doesn't control you. When I was young I was a fucking punk (still kinda am) and it got me in trouble with a lot of older bigger kids.. I got myself into some tough situations and at first I would back down from any confrontation (Your flight response) but eventually I got sick of not standing up for myself and ending up getting into some scraps. Now to this day I still get fucking terrified before a fight--> my body tells me to run, and I literally have to force myself to stay and fight because I know getting my ass kicked is better then not standing up for yourself or even for a family member or friend.

    Moral of the story:

    I MAKE A CHOICE AND I OVERRIDE WHAT MY BODY TELLS ME TO DO

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlupi319 View Post
    I MAKE A CHOICE AND I OVERRIDE WHAT MY BODY TELLS ME TO DO
    lol, how do you know if you override what your body tells you.

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    Who dares wins! TheFitnessLife4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlupi319 View Post
    Ok that was all bullshit. You are saying every choice that a person makes is outside of their control, it's just their bio-chem makeup. You are saying people shouldn't held accountable for their actions--> now think if people weren't held responsible for what they did--> what would happen?

    I quoted this small part of your bullshit post because I am a prime example of how your body doesn't control you. When I was young I was a fucking punk (still kinda am) and it got me in trouble with a lot of older bigger kids.. I got myself into some tough situations and at first I would back down from any confrontation (Your flight response) but eventually I got sick of not standing up for myself and ending up getting into some scraps. Now to this day I still get fucking terrified before a fight--> my body tells me to run, and I literally have to force myself to stay and fight because I know getting my ass kicked is better then not standing up for yourself or even for a family member or friend.

    Moral of the story:

    I MAKE A CHOICE AND I OVERRIDE WHAT MY BODY TELLS ME TO DO
    Exactly. He's saying genetics are everything which is flat out bullshit. If you have both willpower, discipline, and genetics, yes you'll excel more then someone with bad genetics. But if someone with bad genetics puts in PROPER training and PROPER nutrition which most people have no fuckin clue what they're doing, yes they can achieve a good body. These kids are ignorant dumbasses assuming genetics are everything. These are the fuckers that think without AAS they won't excel which is the reason they don't. The mind is strong and if you believe something it'll probably become true in your world.

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    @mlupi319 oh no you misunderstand me. I agree with you there. But it's like asking which came first the chicken or the egg, (maybe you've heard that saying but whatever) People are emotional, physical, mental creatures and each facet affects the other to such a degree that who can be sure whether you felt something because you thought something or you thought that only because of your emotional state or if a physical symptom is caused by the way you feel like depression for example or if it's your physical condition first that caused the way you feel rather than being caused by the way you feel. Humans are complex. People make choices but don't give enough credit to conditioning, environment, and programming, or biochemistry either for the way they are. And the idea that there is no accountability for a person's actions because the pathology of a decision has changed is not my idea. You leaped to that assertion on your own. If a lion tried to eat us I wouldn't blame him for it because it is in his nature to do so but I that wouldn't stop me from shooting him just the same. It's like saying because a person is mentally insane we can't punish them for a crime because they didn't know what they were doing. People have tried to use this as a defense before but in my view it is not morally defensible. the chicken and egg thing again. would you say the person tried to kill you because they are crazy, or would you say they are crazy because they tried to kill you...
    Last edited by ethan_andrew; 07-09-2012 at 12:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name: View Post
    lol, how do you know if you override what your body tells you.
    That is a good point. the chicken or the egg?

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    Who dares wins! TheFitnessLife4ever's Avatar
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    Oh well Ethan. Let's just drop it bro. Willpower, discipline, and genetics play a role. Yes, science and biology does too. All I'm saying is even someone with shitty genetics can look good without AAS with proper training and nutrition. I honestly have shitty genetics and low testosterone but managed to overcome that naturally before I moved on to AAS. Could I have look better if my genetics were good and had better testosterone? Absolutely. But all I'm saying is if you have the determination you can overcome obstacles. I will give you a hand for those strong posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFitnessLife4ever View Post
    The mind is strong and if you believe something it'll probably become true in your world.

    Sure like the earth is flat. People believed that for a long time but that doesn't make it true. You keep saying you can have bad genetics and still be a body builder with hard work. You obviously don't know anything about how the human body or any body works. Have you ever heard of dwarfism, muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis, hypothyroidism, myotonia, mitochondrial myopathies, hypogonadism, for a full list of genetic disorders see google or wiki it's too long to list here. genetics is everything. why are we even arguing about this. Go to fucking college and learn some science and you will see this shit isn't up for debate. it's science, it's fact. We don't do rain dances for rain anymore. We have science and technology

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFitnessLife4ever View Post
    Oh well Ethan. Let's just drop it bro. Willpower, discipline, and genetics play a role. Yes, science and biology does too. All I'm saying is even someone with shitty genetics can look good without AAS with proper training and nutrition. I honestly have shitty genetics and low testosterone but managed to overcome that naturally before I moved on to AAS. Could I have look better if my genetics were good and had better testosterone? Absolutely. But all I'm saying is if you have the determination you can overcome obstacles. I will give you a hand for those strong posts.
    Ok deal lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan_andrew View Post
    I agree with you guys, sort of. I know that some guys who are small with hard work and proper diet and with time can get in shape and get results worth bragging about. I don't even question though that there are some guys who will never make this transformation without steroids. You guys don't give enough credit to steroids. You want to believe you're getting big all on your own that's fine then stop using steroids then if you really believe that. Do you ever wonder why so many people who go to the gym go for a while and then quit and then start back for a while and then quit again and back and forth like that. Why do these people lack the motivation and the dedication to continue working out consistently. Is it because you have more heart and determination than them and they just don't have the same grit and heart that you do, bullshit. Steroids don't just make your muscles grow bigger faster they effect very much the way you feel and the way you think. I am proof of that. Off gear I don't want or feel like lifting the remote to watch t.v. for a workout but on gear I'm an animal, a beast, I'm more motivated or just as motivated as anyone. For what ever reason you don't like hearing it but some guys who can work out naturally maybe gear is just that little edge in the gym but for some guys gear is 90% of it and the catalyst for their transformation from a boy to a man. And just because some skinny guy turned himself into a muscular guy naturally doesn't mean that everyone can do it. Not everyone is the same. You don't know what it's like to be in someone elses body. Genetics, hormones, and body composition is different for everyone.
    i have helped people put 50lbs on without steroids.. i agree there is some room to play with genetics and the such as an excuse.. but its very rare and limited.. in the large number of people i have helped over my career i have met maybe 1-2 people who have a true genetic disadvantage...
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