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  1. #1
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    Week 7 and not much gain? (Pinnacle)
    Running Pinnacle test E (before the new raws, purchased in February) @ 500mg week

    Around weeks 3-5 I started noticing oily skin and an amazing pump I've never felt before, so pumped it almost hurt but hey I'm not complaining. Strength also seemed to be going up around weeks 4-5 (had to stop mid set because I thought I was using the women's bar on my bench warm-up lol) Anyways I am in week 7 now and the pumps haven't been anywhere near like before, strength hasn't really increased anymore, and haven't noticed much size gain either. My sack is smaller but not a whole lot (using hcg).. My skin doesn't seem to be as oily anymore either but I have noticed some slight acne. Also been sweating a shit load in the gym as well, could just be from intensity.

    Diet is good, eating 550 cals above my calculated needs, considered bumping this up. High protein(300) carbs (300) and fats (130) roughly, I track my diet with myfitnesspal so I know I'm not miscalculating.

    I started a new vial around week 4 or 5 I believe, am I unaware of a "bad batch" from pinnacle at all? I know some don't experience the effects til weeks 8-10, just am curious after the pumps and strength gains from the other vial.

    Using 12.5 aromasin eod as well.

  2. #2
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    sounds like a mental DEFEAT issue!!!! Sounds like you "Heard shit about new raws" about that time you lost pumps and strenth??? That sounds totally like your lack of faith in gear that was obviously doing it's job!!! Your gear is ALLLLL from the same batch so it is not possible for one vial to be bad and others be good!!!
    It is possible however that you "mentally" shut your receptors down since your receptors and UPTAKE is all controlled by your brain and mentally this can happen!!! If you start to DOUBT something is NOT good because NEW raws are involved meaning that the old raws have to be poor etc etc... then your body will follow!!!! The body can only do what the brain tells it too!!!!
    If you were getting the GREAT results that you experienced on the prior bottles then not on another then you are mentally defeating the situation!!!! It is all from the SAME batch!!!!!
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  3. #3
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    Consider increasing your calories to match the increased mass you may have put on since you started.

  4. #4
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    lol thanks starks, actually just read about the raws this week tho, but you still may be onto something could be just a mental thing.

    also going to bump up 200 more cals and see how that works

  5. #5
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MN87 View Post
    Consider increasing your calories to match the increased mass you may have put on since you started.
    He is saying that he lost his PUMPS as well which calories would not affect whatsoever!!! If he lost his pumps then that means the TEST is not working in 1 of 2 ways........... 1. He has HIGH test levels but the receptors are shut off and no binding is occurring (and this can happen with simply OVERLOADING the receptors and BELEIVE IT OR NOT it can happen if you mentally beleive your shit is BUNK and your brain shuts them down itself!!!!) This happens mostly in people who have a history of anxiety!!!

    2. The Gear is REALLY bunk and Test Levels are actually not high and high binding is not occuring.

    But for the sake of saying, Pinnacle has never had a batch of BUNK shit!!!! If need be, there will be a thread on this PARTICULAR batch he has that BROS here on Ology that are on that particular batch he speaks of will post pictures of the dated batch he has and then their feedback as to how great they think it is. MANY MANY bros!!!! So in that instance it will prove that the batch itself is in no way the culprit.
    So I digress back to option 1.
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  6. #6
    Junior Bodybuilder noobmuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MN87 View Post
    Consider increasing your calories to match the increased mass you may have put on since you started.
    This! We have to keep adding cals as our cycles progress. You have stopped growing because your maintenance cals have increased and your no longer eating ABOVE maintenance. Your eating just maintenance. Increase Cal intake.

  7. #7
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    It happens all the time.................. It's much the OPOSITE of the Placebo effect!!!!!

    If a person can be fed a SUGAR pill and be told that the pill is a tylenol and it looks like one and they believe REALLY that it is, their headache goes AWAY!!!!
    If the brain controls EVERYTHING then wouldn't it be safe to assume that it could easily SHUT down the receptors??? If you however do not want to assume anything, then research the subject yourself (Not you yourself, but to anyone who may read this) and you will see.... The brain controls all the electrical signals that speak to your body through nerves. These signals are responsible for the RELEASE and BINDING and UPTAKE and everything you can imagine of your body!!! If you believe something is something and it makes your headache go away...... Then you can believe something is not really that something, and make a headache for yourself!!!!!
    LOL Really actually basic Anatomy and Psychology.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstarks11 View Post
    He is saying that he lost his PUMPS as well which calories would not affect whatsoever!!! If he lost his pumps then that means the TEST is not working in 1 of 2 ways........... 1. He has HIGH test levels but the receptors are shut off and no binding is occurring (and this can happen with simply OVERLOADING the receptors and BELEIVE IT OR NOT it can happen if you mentally beleive your shit is BUNK and your brain shuts them down itself!!!!) This happens mostly in people who have a history of anxiety!!!

    2. The Gear is REALLY bunk and Test Levels are actually not high and high binding is not occuring.

    But for the sake of saying, Pinnacle has never had a batch of BUNK shit!!!! If need be, there will be a thread on this PARTICULAR batch he has that BROS here on Ology that are on that particular batch he speaks of will post pictures of the dated batch he has and then their feedback as to how great they think it is. MANY MANY bros!!!! So in that instance it will prove that the batch itself is in no way the culprit.
    So I digress back to option 1.
    I did not post this to bash Pinnacle in any way, was just curious. And I haven't lost all pumps, just not the extreme intensity they were before. Also no history of anxiety btw. I've heard nothing but good about PL just figured I'd ask just in case I missed anything. Looking forward to the second half of this cycle.

  9. #9
    Olympian Bodybuilder crazyfmike's Avatar
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    You really need to eat to grow and count to cut. 550 over is nothing man.

    You are taxing the shit out of your kidneys with that protein intake. I take in 120 grams a day (just as an example) I am 235lbs.

  10. #10
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    I have personally seen (with my own eyes) a guy take a batch of Pinnacle (this was long time ago) and gain 27 lbs at 10weeks on test e and deca. And on that EXACT same batch, a guy who DIDN"T believe in Pinnacles legitimacy (FIRST HAND I SAW THIS I knew both of them) He had been getting his gear from elsewhere and Pinnacle was trying to PROVE to him that you can actually get GREAT gear at a certain price that he was paying over DOUBLE from somewhere else!!!! And this guy took the EXACT batches of the guy who gained 27 lbs, and he took it for 10 weeks PROPERLY and actually went from 247lbs to 235lbs, and the whole time on that cycle he was "Man this shit is not real" "Man this shit is BS" "I'm gonna prove you wrong" "See look, I'm loosing weight, I should have never stopped taking my other shit man" the whole time he took it!!!! CRAZY BUT TRUE, if your mind is not with it..... Your body will not follow no matter how POTENT the gear!!!!!
    POWERED BY PINNACLE LABS !!!

  11. #11
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    Nobody is saying you are bashing Pinn bro, I'm just telling you what I believe from the evidence you are supplying. My pumps on cycle are CONSISTANT, and always have been until I come off. Sure, I may have a bad day here or there but they are consistant. So.... I see you mention the pumps are NOWHERE near what they used to be and that is why I believe my telling you the things I'm stating pertain to your case!!!! I can eat less or eat a shitload more and it doesn't affect the "Pump", maybe the intensity, but not the pump. So if you've lost your pumps (or MOSTLY lost them) then I don't believe cals will make a difference in this instance.
    POWERED BY PINNACLE LABS !!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstarks11 View Post
    Nobody is saying you are bashing Pinn bro, I'm just telling you what I believe from the evidence you are supplying. My pumps on cycle are CONSISTANT, and always have been until I come off. Sure, I may have a bad day here or there but they are consistant. So.... I see you mention the pumps are NOWHERE near what they used to be and that is why I believe my telling you the things I'm stating pertain to your case!!!! I can eat less or eat a shitload more and it doesn't affect the "Pump", maybe the intensity, but not the pump. So if you've lost your pumps (or MOSTLY lost them) then I don't believe cals will make a difference in this instance.
    Fair enough, that's a logical answer, appreciated.. Still seems like the general consensus is that I am eating like a little girl as well tho (nonpump related) and need to bump it anyways, past bulks if I got into 1k+surplus I would gain way too much bf .

  13. #13
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    In the end, contact the site and work it out with them... They are good bros over there and they will always get to the bottom of a problem any client is having or try their hardest to!!!! Might even chunk you a sample of that new shit (really not much better far as POTENCY goes than the other test e) but it will get that mental state back and seem like KILLER shit I bet ya!!!! LOL, you will be fine if you're in their boat bro. Things will either pan out for you and you will find out the problem or they will make the problem right!!!!
    Just my 2 cents bro!
    POWERED BY PINNACLE LABS !!!

  14. #14
    Muscles can't stop this.. Pinnacle@Rep's Avatar
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    BTW, how many cycles is this for you? What are your stats??? Goals??? This is my fault for not getting this info sooner...
    POWERED BY PINNACLE LABS !!!

  15. #15
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    thanks man yea they've been easy to work with since the beginning.

    first cycle 25 years old, started @ just shy of 200lbs 11-12% bf 6'1

    goal is to put on as much mass as possible without extreme fat gain

  16. #16
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    Strange,.....I'm backing my dosages down, sides were looking like they were gonna get out of control. I typically don't experience any sides until the end of an extended run. I will be getting my bloods done in about 2 weeks and i will post my results.

  17. #17
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    A lot of mass with out extreme fat gain? Bro, if you want to get big, you have to eat more. Except that you are going to gain fat and forget 550 over mainance. When I've bulked in the past I've gone as high as 5K calories a day. My maintenance is at 2500.

    Also, IMO, CFM is correct add the new calories a carbs. If you are at 200 lbs and taking in 300 pro you are getting more than enough. If you are consuming good carbs it will translate to good weight. Stay away from high sugar carbs. Apples, bannans and juices and you'll be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alert/10 View Post
    thanks man yea they've been easy to work with since the beginning.

    first cycle 25 years old, started @ just shy of 200lbs 11-12% bf 6'1

    goal is to put on as much mass as possible without extreme fat gain

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by grind4it View Post
    A lot of mass with out extreme fat gain? Bro, if you want to get big, you have to eat more. Except that you are going to gain fat and forget 550 over mainance. When I've bulked in the past I've gone as high as 5K calories a day. My maintenance is at 2500.

    Also, IMO, CFM is correct add the new calories a carbs. If you are at 200 lbs and taking in 300 pro you are getting more than enough. If you are consuming good carbs it will translate to good weight. Stay away from high sugar carbs. Apples, bannans and juices and you'll be fine.
    Thanks for the tip, will definitely be upping my cals and I love carbs so that's a plus. And just to clarify im not scared of some fat gain, it can always be cut later, just don't want to blow up in fat dreamer style .

  19. #19
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    Why dont you just get blood work done to see where your at.
    jadakiss likes this.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsa8864667 View Post
    Why dont you just get blood work done to see where your at.
    was planning on it next week, already prepaid for 3 times of bloodwork precycle, one for pre,during, and post

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alert/10 View Post
    was planning on it next week, already prepaid for 3 times of bloodwork precycle, one for pre,during, and post
    cool i cant wait to see your results.

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    You are running onto one of a few issues, first you need to increase cals as you go, but there needs to be other changes, you eat the same and train the same gains and pumps slow quickly.

    Using gear upregulates receptors so I don't really think it's possible to over satturate receptors, you are constantly making new ones. Your body strives for homeostasis, and it usually happens around that time, change your diet, add mote cals, different foods, change up your training a bit.

    Also make sure you are running an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), hcg. Could possibly be myostatin. Its good to change compounds from time to time or add something new but it's your first cycle, so eat more trainer heavier and low reps, and you will continue to grow. Push yourself, gear only will do so much.

  23. #23
    Pro Bodybuilder jadakiss's Avatar
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    ^i agree with this vet. Smart as fk!
    Last edited by jadakiss; 06-27-2012 at 03:34 PM.

  24. #24
    Noob bleachx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alert/10 View Post
    was planning on it next week, already prepaid for 3 times of bloodwork precycle, one for pre,during, and post
    Did you get a cool 3 time package deal? If so that's cool. "Hi I would like the JuiceBoyz3 package please!" lol. What lab did you use if u don't mind me asking.

  25. #25
    Who dares wins! TheFitnessLife4ever's Avatar
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    If you were eating sufficient calories, you'd see some gain. Test doesn't make you gain the weight, food does! 500 over? That's not shit. I gain fat easy and on cycle have managed to eat over 1000 cals over consumption and haven't gained much fat if at all.(still 28 waist) If your already fat worrying about more fat, you hve no business being on AAS. It's not the lab or the gear, it's your diet!!!

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