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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Strong, but muscles not growing at all.
    Coming to a close of my first cycle... which consists of 500mg test e/ week. I did gain strength, but for size, I gained just a bit, nothing of what I was hoping.

    I am 6'1" 205lbs 18% bf. Gained about 22lbs from the cycle... some is noticeably fat. Strength did go up and my pumps are intense. I have large legs and very big calves which I guess I am blessed with but my upper body looks very unacceptable to me. I have 16" arms and bench 320lbs to put it in perspective....

    I train heavy... 6 reps max. One body part a day 5 days a week. 12-16 sets per bodypart, depends on how I feel.

    My diet is spot on, I am extremely anal about it.

    Most of my lifting buddys are bigger than me, but I am stronger than most.

    I am really disappointed with my first cycle, granted I know I gained muscle it's just unnoticeable to myself. I would rather be bigger yet weaker... I just don't know if its genetics or what that limit my ability to build a decent, respectable upper body.

    I would appreciate any advice or suggestions.

  2. #2
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    you say your diet is spot on, but that's your opinion. post it for us, it could be the problem. and you say you gained 22lbs on this cycle? that sounds about right to me. those are really good gains for a test e only cycle. and remember the mroe you gain the harder it is to keep, plus some of it is fat and water. you will lose some pounds. you should be happy with 22, think about it bro. after you've been training a while 10 pounds is pretty hard to come by naturally in a year.

  3. #3
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    6 eggs for breakfast with 2 pieces of whole wheat bread
    1 can of soy beans for lunch with fruit
    1 pork chop and 1 chicken breast with veggies for dinner
    plus i drink a gallon of whole milk throughout the day with 5 scoops of protein in it and a protein bar if I get hungry somewheres between meals. I am eating about 4500/ a day.

    I don't ever deviate from this at all. It may not be completely perfect, but it works for me in terms of do-ability and I can easily stick to it.

    I mean I guess I am happy that I did gain weight and everything.... I'm just waiting for hypertrophy..... strength is not a big deal to me... I keep on getting stronger which is not really a problem yet for me, but I have big problems when it comes to actually gaining size.

    Would you recommend I train in the 10-12 rep range instead of 5-6 range? Is it really that big of a difference between the two and the benefits each present? I read too many conflicting articles on all things bodybuilding... ehhh.

  4. #4
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    yeah there's a lot of conflicting information out there, but you just have to find what works for you. some guys can train 2 a days 12 sets per body part and grow, i can't. less is more when it comes to me. hypertrophy doesn't work too well for me, heavy weight low reps works well for me at gaining size and strength. i was doing 5x5 for a while and it was working, then i plateaued on size and strength. just started DC a week ago and i'm liking it. why don't you research that and see if it's something for you. dante's doggcrapp training. check out intensemuscle.com

  5. #5
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    Dude that's a weak diet get it over your head you obviously need help with your diet.

  6. #6
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    and yeah i agree that diet can be vastly approved.

  7. #7
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    Agreed that the diet needs improvement, however I have much worse. My money goes to overtraining. How many times a week do you hit your arms, how many sets bis & tris?

    I love to overtrain. CFM brought to my attention that sometimes less is more.

  8. #8
    Pro Bodybuilder Harnold's Avatar
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    I'm not going to comment on the diet, but two things you said jump out at me right away. first of all, you are training nothing more than 6 reps, which falls into the strength training realm. hyper trophy, if you want muscle growth, you need to be up around 8-10 reps. some say a few higher for the bigger muscle groups like legs and back..
    secondly, everyone thinks their diet is spot on, but yours is not. one more thing though, you mentioned biceps I believe, well don't forget, it sucks but genetically we all have weak points, so you may have to deal with biceps that aren't the bomb.
    by the way, 20 pounds is nothing to scoff at on cycle, even if you are carrying some water.
    Matt0071 likes this.

  9. #9
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    That diet is shocking my baby brother eats as much as that do some research but sorry to say you have wasted the gear by not eating enough ........
    Last edited by TLF84; 06-16-2012 at 07:51 PM.

  10. #10
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    Would anyone try to tell me what is so horrible about my diet? I am consuming about 4500 calories a day without any cheats or alcohol, etc. with nearly 400 grams of protein.... how is my diet so horrendous? I have two cousins I work out with, and both of them have absolutely no set diet, yet are bigger than me (one of them plays for the Vikings)... and I mean NO SET DIET. They eat crap and never worry about protein intake or total calories.

    I also study in Russia and have had numerous conversations with the guys in the gym about their diets, because GNC and health supplement stores are just is not known in most parts of the this country. There are some big Russians, with no protein powders or odd supplements, and with no knowledge of calories....fuck, you cannot even count calories in russia because there are no nutritional facts......

    so I really do believe its some other problem rather than improper eating. I am nowhere's near considered huge, so it's not like my diet has to be a pro bodybuilders diet working to gain that last 1lb of muscle before my skin bursts.

    I will take into account the higher rep range... I appreciate the suggestion.

    As for training my arms... I do them once a week... 8 sets bis 8 for tris... starting heavy ending with lighter weight but trying to burn them out.

    My legs are out of proportion with my upper body. 18.5" calves, upper legs are 26.5" .... vs. 13" forearms and 16" bis....

    So I was leaning more genetics?
    Last edited by bdomihizayka; 06-16-2012 at 08:55 PM.

  11. #11
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    Here is what I see wrong. You start out saying your diet is spot on and you are 18% bf. Those two statements dont really go together. I was 15% then I got my diet spot on and it 6 weeks I was 7 - 8 %. Your diet is pretty bad and here is why. You are only eating 3 meals a day and a gallon of whole milk. That is Terrible. You need to add about 3 more meals. Just because its 4500 cals doesn't mean anything. If the cals are bad or taken wrong then you will stay at 18% and never get what you want. When you say your diet is spot on then it should look the one below. That is a spot on diet. I eat this everyday or something very close. I will be starting my next cycle monday and I will start with this and add to it. If you will follow this you will grow. You might have to add or subtract a thing or two but this is a perfect start. Also 6 reps is not good either. I am a believer that super heavy weight and few reps is not the way to get jacked. Lift a little lighter and add 2- 4 more reps. remember its all about how much blood you get in there. And last but not least: 22lbs off of test only is amazing. You should be very happy with that. I really feel your not happy because of your training and diet sounds like the gear did its job. Good luck bro.

    meal 1:
    1 1/2 cups oatmeal
    7 egg whites
    2 whole eggs

    meal 2:
    8 oz protein
    10 oz carbs
    1 cup of salad
    1 tbsp peanut butter

    meal 3:
    8 oz fish
    10 oz brown rice
    1 cup of salad

    meal 4:
    8 oz chicken
    10 oz carbs
    1 cup of salad
    2 tbsp of peanut butter

    meal 5:
    protein shake
    1/2 bagel
    1 banana

    meal 6: (before bed)
    6 -8 oz steak
    1 cup broccilli
    Natehayes likes this.

  12. #12
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    I stead of maybe protein powders and bars and all that rubbish try added a proper mean with actually meat like I stead of protein bar do cans of tuna .......just because the numbers of protein etc is there doesn't mean shit when it's processed bunk I never touch bars etc and limit protein shakes to post workout and before bed but hey if you think your diet is TOP then keep going

  13. #13
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    your cousins may be genetic freaks. i was stuffing myself a couple days ago when my buddy asks why. i told him i am trying to bulk up. this guy probably just eats like a normal person, maybe 2000 cals a day, he looks like a bulldog and can outlift me anyday. although he does go to the gym regularly. i don't see a problem with a gallon of milk a day if you're not trying to cut body fat but just bulking. replace those processed bars with some meats or something. start buying rotisserie whole chickens, they have them at sams club for 6 bucks a piece and they're delicious. also why don't you just cut back on the sets for 3 or 4 weeks and see what happens.
    Last edited by donjob; 06-17-2012 at 06:26 PM. Reason: typos

  14. #14
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    cokezero I will begin that diet immediately. And really the only reason I substitute most of my calories with my milk is because I'm an engineering student with absolutely zero social life outside of school, my internship, homework, gym time... and it was a huge weight off of my back and a lot of stress off of me to not have to worry about preparing all those meals. Since it's summer I will have no excuses to not put everything into my diet. Thank you dude.

    And thanks alot for all the advice donjob... more real food and a change in workout.

  15. #15
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    Hey man I know the thought of preparing all those meals sounds like a full time job and it does take a while but it ends up being like going to the gym. You will find a way to work it into your schedule. Just like all those people who say they don't have time to workout. They would if they wanted to. You will find time. And if you mess up from time to time no big deal. I ate a small bag of chips today when everyone left. I did hide the bag though. lol.. good luck man.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdomihizayka View Post
    6 eggs for breakfast with 2 pieces of whole wheat bread
    1 can of soy beans for lunch with fruit
    1 pork chop and 1 chicken breast with veggies for dinner
    plus i drink a gallon of whole milk throughout the day with 5 scoops of protein in it and a protein bar if I get hungry somewheres between meals. I am eating about 4500/ a day.

    I don't ever deviate from this at all. It may not be completely perfect, but it works for me in terms of do-ability and I can easily stick to it.

    I mean I guess I am happy that I did gain weight and everything.... I'm just waiting for hypertrophy..... strength is not a big deal to me... I keep on getting stronger which is not really a problem yet for me, but I have big problems when it comes to actually gaining size.

    Would you recommend I train in the 10-12 rep range instead of 5-6 range? Is it really that big of a difference between the two and the benefits each present? I read too many conflicting articles on all things bodybuilding... ehhh.
    Get rid of the soy. Soy has estrogenic properties. That probably explains your body composition as it is. Instead of drinking a gallon of milk every day replace it with a gallon of water. You need to drink lots of water when on aas and when body building. Stop doing low reps high sets and reverse that to high reps 12 to 20 or to failure and 3 or 4 sets so you get a good burn in your muscles. and incorporate several different exercises to work out the same muscle or muscle area and dedicate one day to one muscle. Like on chest day you can do flat bench, incline, decline, dumbell flys, pec deck which all work out your chest and group muscles together on days that you can't help but workout both muscles anyhow like when you work out your chest your triceps get a lot of work out as well so do triceps and chest same day. Change your diet and workout routine and you will start to see a lot more improvement. Also if you want to gain lean muscle and lose some of that water weight and fat try a cycle with gear that will help facilitate that such as trenbolone, winstrol, primobolan. If you want to bulk add some dbol in with you next test cycle. good luck bro

  17. #17
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    70% diet 25% training 5% gear

  18. #18
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    Given that everything is taken care of.

    Just do arms in the gym then.... lots of volume. biceps and triceps....Remember..triceps make for 3/4 of the arms size.

    I remember doing just arms for 4 months with some rest....if I feel like it was slowing down or over-training,I would do squats to jump start the growth hormones being that squats was the only thing I did heavy.I would make arms the sole purpose for me going to the gym.

    I would do arms 4 days a week about 10 sets per exercise around 13-16 reps.Doing 3 Exercises.All machines.I would do this for about 4 months.Takes about an hour.

    Now I do some more heavier mass like Dumb-bells or a EZ bar for curling for one exercise.

    I'm trying to break the 18 inch barrier :-)

    Once then I get that arm size...I will go attack another "Weak" body part being that it's legs right now.Only then the arms would just need a maintenance program to keep it's size.

    Any time you get your weaker body part up to par..then just find another weak bodypart to bring up.This is more of a concentration program that i think works best and saves the body from awful wear and tear all at once.

    Oh yea...Get rid of soy...that's for ladies who love smooth skins.

  19. #19
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    Try doing 8-10 rep range for certain lifts.

    I like to do 12-20 reps of side lateral raises with dumbbells then do military press 15 times. Then do arm circles for 20 reps w/ 5-15 lbs. I promise if you do this 1 or2x a week into your workouts you will have BOULDERS i mean massive shoulders.

    Also deadlifts and shrugs should give you pretty big traps. Focus your lifts more on back and legs, rather than chest and arms, because your legs & back have so much more potential. Once you fully develop your back your ARMS and chest will catch up FAST.

    squats are absolutely necessary. One week go super deep with enough weight to do 5 sets of 8. Then go heavy next week 6 sets of 7. Then deep squats week after, etc and you will grow!!!

    Another thing I do a lot is lat pulldowns and pullups. Its funny at first my lats were oversized compared to my body so it looked funny, but now its all evened out. Like I said, my benchpress increased tremendously once my back got up to size. I went from a weak 205 x 1 max, to now 315 x 2 in the past few months. Only doing bench once a week, sometimes skipping. A better way to get benchpress strength and tricep size is do skullcrushers and seated incline dumbell presses. Triceps are MUCH more important than biceps, because they are twice the size of the biceps. Thats why you see a bunch of idiots at the gym that spend hours a week doing curls and gaining nothing.



    summary:
    No matter how much arms you do, you will never be happy with your size until you start doing a full body workout.
    2 most important muscle groups to focus on :
    BACK AND LEGS

    all lacking body parts will fill in so quickly after your back and legs get big. Its not even funny.
    Last edited by josh223; 06-17-2012 at 03:37 AM.

  20. #20
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    f u are 18% bf... your diet is not "spot-on" as u say

    u say u work out with your cousin that plays for the Vikings?? then u say u are in Russia...I don't know of any guys playing for the Vikings that are in Russia

    anyway... back to your concerns

    sounds like u gotta take a different approach to your diet and training... u must reduce your bf% (stop drinking all that milk for starters)if u want to see any of the muscle u are gaining! cardio, cardio, cardio... and up the reps to the 8-10 range like mentioned above

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by China_Wall View Post
    f u are 18% bf... your diet is not "spot-on" as u say

    u say u work out with your cousin that plays for the Vikings?? then u say u are in Russia...I don't know of any guys playing for the Vikings that are in Russia

    anyway... back to your concerns

    sounds like u gotta take a different approach to your diet and training... u must reduce your bf% (stop drinking all that milk for starters)if u want to see any of the muscle u are gaining! cardio, cardio, cardio... and up the reps to the 8-10 range like mentioned above
    Ryan Dimperio is my cousin.... I train with him anytime I am in the states and before I started school here. Being cut really wasn't my goal until I felt "large" enough to cut. And thanks for the recommendations.... everybody, I really appreciate it and I cannot wait to implement them into my diet and training alike. Thank you so much everybody and I wish you all good luck with your personal goals :-)
    Matt0071 likes this.

  22. #22
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    And thank you cokezero for all the advice you've messaged me. I will make sure to make an honest effort to permanently implement it into my bodybuilding program. I know you weren't trying to be a dick or anything, it's the reason I joined this site for advice, recommendations, and criticism. I really appreciate everything you've taught me, and have learned alot. Thank you bro :-)

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdomihizayka View Post
    And thank you cokezero for all the advice you've messaged me. I will make sure to make an honest effort to permanently implement it into my bodybuilding program. I know you weren't trying to be a dick or anything, it's the reason I joined this site for advice, recommendations, and criticism. I really appreciate everything you've taught me, and have learned alot. Thank you bro :-)
    Awesome attitude man. You'll go far being able to take constructive criticism and use it like that.

    These guys are all correct, whole foods are ideal. I personally cook 10 chicken breasts at a time, microwave sweet potatoes, find a couple cheap fast restaurants that have a good protein/carb/veggie meal you can hit if you need to.... Like anything, the first month it'll seem like a chore, after that it'll be second nature.

    Good luck bro you'll get there just keep pluggin away.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh223 View Post
    Try doing 8-10 rep range for certain lifts.

    I like to do 12-20 reps of side lateral raises with dumbbells then do military press 15 times. Then do arm circles for 20 reps w/ 5-15 lbs. I promise if you do this 1 or2x a week into your workouts you will have BOULDERS i mean massive shoulders.

    Also deadlifts and shrugs should give you pretty big traps. Focus your lifts more on back and legs, rather than chest and arms, because your legs & back have so much more potential. Once you fully develop your back your ARMS and chest will catch up FAST.

    squats are absolutely necessary. One week go super deep with enough weight to do 5 sets of 8. Then go heavy next week 6 sets of 7. Then deep squats week after, etc and you will grow!!!

    Another thing I do a lot is lat pulldowns and pullups. Its funny at first my lats were oversized compared to my body so it looked funny, but now its all evened out. Like I said, my benchpress increased tremendously once my back got up to size. I went from a weak 205 x 1 max, to now 315 x 2 in the past few months. Only doing bench once a week, sometimes skipping. A better way to get benchpress strength and tricep size is do skullcrushers and seated incline dumbell presses. Triceps are MUCH more important than biceps, because they are twice the size of the biceps. Thats why you see a bunch of idiots at the gym that spend hours a week doing curls and gaining nothing.



    summary:
    No matter how much arms you do, you will never be happy with your size until you start doing a full body workout.
    2 most important muscle groups to focus on :
    BACK AND LEGS

    all lacking body parts will fill in so quickly after your back and legs get big. Its not even funny.
    pre-exhausting a muscle group like shoulders with laterals before a compound movement like military press is a trick Arnold use to use, for shoulders as well as other muscles. it will definitely show you some good results. that was good advice josh gave you.

  25. #25
    Pro Bodybuilder Harnold's Avatar
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    man, this is just my humble opinion, but protein bars suck, they don't digest well and they contain a lot of shit with the protein. they give me rock gut like i just ate at McDonalds or something. I personally like powders but they shouldn't replace real food unless it's your only option at the time.just my 2 cnts.

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