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(Forum for members to discuss the use of anabolic steroids)

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  1. #1
    AssHat mlupi319's Avatar
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    Default Test Front Loading
    Front loading:
    Administering a higher initial dose with the goal of stabilizing blood levels sooner. It is a fairly simple twist that seems most beneficial with test only cycles without a fast acting compound.

    Blood Level Stabilization
    My interest in front loading led me to start playing around with a post cycle therapy (pct) calculator that base on your cycle (compound, dose, frequency, etc) spits out your blood levels. Based on these calculators I realized your blood levels increase and stabilize at a level over your total weekly dosage. This is because your dose timing is at half of the half-life so your blood level gradually increases but at the same time the amount by which your blood level decreases also increases. This is because every time you administer a new dose you have that dose decreasing (at the rate of the half life) along with all the other doses decreasing as well (Cumulative decrease buildup).

    Blood Levels W/o Front Load
    For example administering test e at 250mg E3D (580mg/week) your bloods at the end of the cycle fluctuates from roughly 800mg to 970mg. But blood levels take until day 25 before you even see a blood level around 900mg and fully stabilizes around day 37. I know you should see gains before your blood levels are at 900+mg but this is just an example showing the time at which blood levels stabilize relative to the end of cycle blood levels.

    Front Loading Comparison
    Front load at the upper constraint (970mg) of the fluctuation seen at end of a regular cycle. Then continue as planned with 250mg E3D. According to the blood level calculator from the beginning to the end of the cycle you never dip below 795mg or over 973mg indicating an instant stabilization of blood levels.

    Discusion
    So why isn't this technique more broadly suggested and implemented? I would like to hear peoples thoughts and experiences with front loading as I would like to implement this technique in my next cycle. The benefits of front loading are based on the assumption that gains come when blood levels stabilize..Does anyone have evidence to disprove this?
    Last edited by mlupi319; 04-09-2012 at 09:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Junior Bodybuilder noobmuscle's Avatar
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    I have hear a few people talk about this, but not many. I, too, am interested...

  3. #3
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    If it was so great guys would already be doing it, why waste your gear or time. All esters will start to increase blood levels in 48 hours.

    So does it matter if you get your serum levels to 3000ng/DL in two weeks or 4 weeks? No because you don't build muscle over night, I don't care how much gear you front load, all your doing is causing a large fluctuation in hormones, so you add a rediculous amount of test, then the body counters by creating Aromatase enzymes

    Your t levels begin to start dropping over the next several days, Aromatase stays the same. So you end up with large fluctuations in hormones, possibly create more estro, and nothing great hallens because it takes time to build muscle.

  4. #4
    AssHat mlupi319's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UserAt204 View Post
    If it was so great guys would already be doing it, why waste your gear or time. All esters will start to increase blood levels in 48 hours.

    So does it matter if you get your serum levels to 3000ng/DL in two weeks or 4 weeks? No because you don't build muscle over night, I don't care how much gear you front load, all your doing is causing a large fluctuation in hormones, so you add a rediculous amount of test, then the body counters by creating Aromatase enzymes

    Your t levels begin to start dropping over the next several days, Aromatase stays the same. So you end up with large fluctuations in hormones, possibly create more estro, and nothing great hallens because it takes time to build muscle.
    Understandable you don't build muscle over night but during my first cycle it took nearly 5 weeks before I felt strength gains. By your logic it seems I should be growing (muscle and strength) 48 hrs after my first injection but that the growth is slow and unnoticeable for a couple of weeks. This could be true, assuming I was building muscle from day 1 and it wasn't until 35 days later that the new muscle produced strength gains. Again this assumes the muscle I already had was at maximum strength. But gains don't come like that- people notice nothing for 4 weeks then steamroll the next 8 weeks with unprecedented growth.

    Also if the reason front loading doesn't work is because you don't grow over night, how come strength and muscle gains come quicker with prop and suspension?

    Lastly I agree that spiking test levels will spike aromatase enzymes but running letro a couple days before your first pin would nip that in the butt
    Last edited by mlupi319; 04-10-2012 at 01:56 AM.

  5. #5
    AssHat mlupi319's Avatar
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    Btw I'm trying to build an excel model that calculates blood levels (in mg) of substances based on their half lives. Some of the online calculators are restrictive and I don't fully trust them.....


    ...oh ya BUMP

  6. #6
    Junior Bodybuilder noobmuscle's Avatar
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    Both of you make really good points on the topic. I will say that if we all used the train of thought Userat204 uses about if "it were that good we would already be doing it," then we would still be living in the age of Arnold with no AI's or post cycle therapy (pct). Really good point on not building muscle over night though.

    And tushay to you mlupi319 for the sensible rebutal. Anynone with a degree in pharmacology or Biology that could chime in? That sure would be nice, huh?

  7. #7
    Junior Bodybuilder Malave16's Avatar
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    Interesting, imma try this on my rats next cycle

  8. #8
    AssHat mlupi319's Avatar
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    Ya I wanted to get some solid medical/ chemistry knowledge for or against front loading, because honestly anyone can debate the theories behind front loading.

    ...I guess the only other way to tell is to try it out

  9. #9
    Junior Bodybuilder Carhartt's Avatar
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    I am on multiple boards. And many talk about this topic. Not only with test but with all depot compounds.. Eq,deca and primo forex.

    I have done it with test and eq. And i did not feel anything from doing it. Just waist of gear if u asking me.

    If some of u guys want to give it a try. Ok i wont stop u so just go ahead and do it. But to me it does nothing !!

    Now days cyceling,doses and post cycle therapy (pct) protocols are just a big joke. The web is good in many ways but also a trap..

    My first cycle was test e 250mg and deca 400mg aw. I was on for 6 weeks and did gain 15kg's. I did keep 8kg's with out doing post cycle therapy (pct).

    Who would today use 400mg deca and 250mg test ?? Now thinking about the ratio.. NO ONE !! But i not agree to the new style of cyceling.

  10. #10
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    Here's why front loading isn't de rigeur: it takes at least 48 hours, but more usually a week or so for your own testosterone production to shut down. So while you getting just your injected testosterone from the end of week one, you have your own natural production too for the first week. That evens things out a bit.

    But I always front load long ester cycles. My calculations are simple, and seem to work on a practical level. If the half-life of the ester is 7 days, then half the roid remains unused (still in my bloodstream) at 7 days. So if I injected 500mg, I have only had 250mg. So to achieve 500mg, I need to inject twice that for a 7 day half life. In practice, that means doubling the dose for test enanthate on the first week, and I return to my usual weekly dosage thereafter.

    For equipoise, I did think about increasing the front load still further, with the longer half life. But baulked at the massive dosage required, and ended up doubling my usual weekly dosage for the first 2 weeks. It seemed to work well. I think that is why so many folk think equipoise only leads to slow gains, and that cycles need to be long - 14 weeks or longer. With front loading, I think it can be treated like any other steroid. No need for extra long cycles.

    By contrast, I do the opposite at the end of a cycle. I stop my long esters 3 weeks before the end of my cycle, and add in relatively small dosages of propionate, increasing the propionate as the long ester ebbs away. Then, I can abruptly stop altogether, allowing intensive PCT to kick in within a week of the end of my cycle.

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