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  1. #1
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    hcg after cycle as well as during?
    this is my 4th cycle but first time using hcg

    i will be running 250IU twice a week during the cycle (14 weeks)

    after the cycle i wil still have 3000IU of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). should i use this after cycle/ in post cycle therapy (pct) or not? if so, at what dose and how often?

    also im still confused about people saying to stop hcg a certain time before post cycle therapy (pct) starts?

    thanks

  2. #2
    Junior Bodybuilder OmegaReign's Avatar
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    Use it for about 10 days after your last pin, then start post cycle therapy (pct) around 4 days after that. Depending on what you're running.

  3. #3
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    would it be better for recovery of the testes to up the dosage to 500IU twice per week on weeks 10-15? or is this too much and would hurt recovery?

    might as awell use all my hcg (10,000IU)

    cycle is 14 weeks long of sustanon and deca (deca 12 weeks)

  4. #4
    Work In Progress Loaded Gun's Avatar
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    I was reading something that said 500iu 2x/wk during, then 500iu/day for the last 10 days of the active ester, then begin PCT.

  5. #5
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    everyone says take 500iu a week, but in studies i've read its not even proven to be a enough to keep the balls producing. unless you getting bloods done you might aswell do a blast phase at the end of your cycle.

    day after last pin 2500iu every 2 days for 16 days, total of 20,000iu and 2 weeks after last pin nolva and clomid for 40 days. thats dr scallys system and personally i think its a more effective method. time and money could be been wasted on as little as 500 ius a week of hcg during cycle, but then again it might not be. just thought id bring what i've read to your attention.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by leetrx View Post
    would it be better for recovery of the testes to up the dosage to 500IU twice per week on weeks 10-15? or is this too much and would hurt recovery?

    might as awell use all my hcg (10,000IU)

    cycle is 14 weeks long of sustanon and deca (deca 12 weeks)
    Sounds like a more effective dose 1000iu a week, but again it could be too little it could be too much, without your bloods been taken you wont exactly know where you and what you actually do need to be taking.

  7. #7
    Community Veteran Zeek's Avatar
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    Here is how I size up my HCG dosage on cycle. Use the minimum that works to bring back/maintain your testicles at their normal pre cycle size. More is not always better and this does really apply to HCG because there can be issues with too much for too long.

    Omega gave some great advice in running it right up till post cycle therapy (pct). I would not use it during post cycle therapy (pct) since I feel it has hindered my recovery during past cycles when used that way.

  8. #8
    "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.
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    im with long here.

    250iu isnt gonna do shit. May as well not even use it. 1000 a week I dont feel will even do much. If you have only a little bit then I would just save it for post cycle therapy (pct). I would do 1500-2000iu eod for 10 shots starting the day after last inject then 4 days after hcg start serm therapy. Which is kinda what long stated

  9. #9
    Novice planb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R. View Post
    im with long here.

    250iu isnt gonna do shit. May as well not even use it. 1000 a week I dont feel will even do much. If you have only a little bit then I would just save it for post cycle therapy (pct). I would do 1500-2000iu eod for 10 shots starting the day after last inject then 4 days after hcg start serm therapy. Which is kinda what long stated
    H.L.R.,
    Whats the theory behind this HCG blast right after your last shot?
    Also, If im doing proviron during cycle is HCG even necessary?

  10. #10
    "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by planb View Post
    H.L.R.,
    Whats the theory behind this HCG blast right after your last shot?
    Also, If im doing proviron during cycle is HCG even necessary?
    The theory is that it kick starts your bodies natural test production while your hpta is still shut down. As your exogenous test levels fall to below the normal test range your natty test is firing to somewhat normal levels. Then you refrain from the hcg and start serm therapy and its alot easier for clomid/nolva to get your hpta pushing out an lh/fsh signal again which will raise/keep your natty test in the normal ranges hence improving the transition to natural test production and recovery.

    as far as proviron vs hcg goes, proviron does not send a signal to your testicles to get them to produce natty test. Proviron is a very slight estro blocker and it binds to shbg which will free up more test. That is why proviron is synergystic with test. Hcg on cycle is controversial. The only reason I use hcg on cycle now is to try and help my sperm count stay higher to hopefully enhance my chances of having kids (as I dont have any yet). If I wasnt planning on having kids I wouldnt use hcg during a cycle and only use it in the "blast phase" or Dr scallys protocol.

  11. #11
    LEARNING weights=life's Avatar
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    Ive read (and i dont know enough bout hcg) 2500 twice a week ladt two weeks on cycle. And 2500 twice a week one week off... Is tht completely wrong and not a good idea?

  12. #12
    Olympian Bodybuilder simpllyhuge's Avatar
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    I would run 500iu 2 times a week. It cant hurt and it may help your libido.
    Last edited by simpllyhuge; 12-23-2011 at 03:50 AM.

  13. #13
    LEARNING weights=life's Avatar
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    all,the way through cycle? Would u blast towards end of cycle n while off up till pct?

  14. #14
    "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weights=life View Post
    Ive read (and i dont know enough bout hcg) 2500 twice a week ladt two weeks on cycle. And 2500 twice a week one week off... Is tht completely wrong and not a good idea?
    I have no idea where you read that but it doesnt sound right at all but then again its hard to understand what your saying

  15. #15
    "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weights=life View Post
    all,the way through cycle? Would u blast towards end of cycle n while off up till pct?
    are you still wanting to have kids? then run it through your cycle. If you dont care then use it for recovery imo

  16. #16
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    Google - Anthony Roberts PCT
    It's a good read.

  17. #17
    "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neugene View Post
    Google - Anthony Roberts post cycle therapy (pct)
    It's a good read.
    I dont agree with that post cycle therapy (pct). And he is wrong about aromasin making the estro receptors inactive. Aromasin doesnt bind to the receptors it binds to estrogen itself. Also it doesnt eliminate 85% of estrogen. It binds to about 85% of estrogen which lowers the total amount of estrogen in the body by about 50%. If I would have took the time to read this whole thing I could proly pick out alot more shit wrong.

    Dr scallys post cycle therapy (pct) has clinical data to back up his protocal. That imo is the best post cycle therapy (pct) protocol to follow

  18. #18
    Rockin' Faces 0tj0's Avatar
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    Is it really necissary to run it the whole way through on every cycle? I thought on say a test E cycle you really dont even start to shut down until week 5. Couldnt you just start it then with the same results? The stuff is pretty fast acting right? Not like you gotta let it build up.

  19. #19
    "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0tj0 View Post
    Is it really necissary to run it the whole way through on every cycle? I thought on say a test E cycle you really dont even start to shut down until week 5. Couldnt you just start it then with the same results? The stuff is pretty fast acting right? Not like you gotta let it build up.
    there is different reasons to run hcg but if your concerned about shut down then start it with your first shot. Shut down starts to occur with the first shot of exogenous test

  20. #20
    Novice planb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R. View Post
    The theory is that it kick starts your bodies natural test production while your hpta is still shut down. As your exogenous test levels fall to below the normal test range your natty test is firing to somewhat normal levels. Then you refrain from the hcg and start serm therapy and its alot easier for clomid/nolva to get your hpta pushing out an lh/fsh signal again which will raise/keep your natty test in the normal ranges hence improving the transition to natural test production and recovery.

    as far as proviron vs hcg goes, proviron does not send a signal to your testicles to get them to produce natty test. Proviron is a very slight estro blocker and it binds to shbg which will free up more test. That is why proviron is synergystic with test. Hcg on cycle is controversial. The only reason I use hcg on cycle now is to try and help my sperm count stay higher to hopefully enhance my chances of having kids (as I dont have any yet). If I wasnt planning on having kids I wouldnt use hcg during a cycle and only use it in the "blast phase" or Dr scallys protocol.
    Good info. Thx for answering my question.

  21. #21
    Resident Researcher essays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R. View Post
    Aromasin doesnt bind to the receptors it binds to estrogen itself. Also it doesnt eliminate 85% of estrogen. It binds to about 85% of estrogen which lowers the total amount of estrogen in the body by about 50%. If I would have took the time to read this whole thing I could proly pick out alot more shit wrong.
    Could you please back this up with empirical data? This is an area of frequent misconception. Aromasin does not bind to estrogen, nor does it lower the total estrogen in the body by about 50%. Aromasin will suppress e2 by about 85% and e1 by about 95%. You'd better come back with some facts.
    Last edited by essays; 12-24-2011 at 02:35 AM.

  22. #22
    Resident Researcher essays's Avatar
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    Bump, someone still has some 'splaining to do.

  23. #23
    "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by essays View Post
    Could you please back this up with empirical data? This is an area of frequent misconception. Aromasin does not bind to estrogen, nor does it lower the total estrogen in the body by about 50%. Aromasin will suppress e2 by about 85% and e1 by about 95%. You'd better come back with some facts.
    not trying to be a dick here bro but before you call someone out you better get your grammar correct. Do you even know what empirical stands for? I think the word you were looking for was clinical...

    and yes aromasin binds to estrogen, or the aromatase enzyme which is the enzyme that synthesizes estrogen, and deactivates it. It is called the suicide inhibitor for a reason. If it just bound itself to the receptor and blocked estrogen you would still have estro floating around in your body and it would also cause estro rebound like adex can in post cycle therapy (pct). Hence aromasin being a type 1 inhibitor vs adex being a type 2.

    As far as the percents it drops estro I will just refrain from that argument as I am getting conflicting numbers in my research but what I found is that aromasin averages an 85% rate of estro suppression (see #1 below for reference), which translates to an overall reduction in estradiol levels of about 50% (see #2 below for reference) as well as raising test.

    #1 Eur. J. Cancer. 2000, May;36(8):976-82

    #2 The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 88, No. 12 5951-5956Copyright 2003 by The Endocrine Society

    hope that 'splains things for ya
    Last edited by "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.; 12-24-2011 at 01:12 PM.

  24. #24
    Dr. Steal
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    GOD DAMMMM

    H.L.R. Is dropping knowledge bombs on ya!!!!!!!!!!


    And blasting that shit is the only way to go....And i swear if I have another kid I am gonna pull my hair out..lol
    Last edited by Dr. Steal; 12-24-2011 at 02:25 PM.

  25. #25
    Resident Researcher essays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R. View Post
    and yes aromasin binds to estrogen, or the aromatase enzyme which is the enzyme that synthesizes estrogen, and deactivates it. It is called the suicide inhibitor for a reason. If it just bound itself to the receptor and blocked estrogen you would still have estro floating around in your body and it would also cause estro rebound like adex can in post cycle therapy (pct). Hence aromasin being a type 1 inhibitor vs adex being a type 2.
    The aromatase enzyme and estrogen are NOT one in the same. The aromatase enzyme converts androgens to estrogens. Aromasin does NOT bind to estrogen. Nice try.

    The "type 1 vs type 2" is just a label for steroidal vs non-steroidal, and has nothing to do with efficacy. In addition, arimidex, femara and aromasin are all third generation aromatase inhibitors, and they are ALL effective.

    As for this whole "you would still have estrogen floating around your body" argument. All of these hormones and drugs have life expectancies. Once you block the aromatase enzyme, you are no longer producing the vast majority of estrogens, leaving very little if any floating around your body (consider that estrogen isn't just floating around in your bloodstream, but synthesized in specific tissues, where it is then metabolized.)

    I hope this helps clear things up for you.


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