Anabolic steroids, bodybuilding discussion forums. - Steroidology

rui products
 

(Forum for members to discuss the use of anabolic steroids)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
Like Tree4Likes
  1. #1
    Novice ColSanders's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    84
    Rep Power
    4
    IGF-1 LR3 vs DES
    what are the pros and cons to each?

  2. #2
    Junior Bodybuilder Conrad415's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    494
    Rep Power
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by ColSanders View Post
    what are the pros and cons to each?
    Never tried lr3. Always take IGF DES . I hear good things about lr3 but I have no expereince with it.
    My dose is 5mcg bilaterally preworkout and about 20 min later the pumps start to show
    Last edited by juced_porkchop; 06-25-2013 at 05:38 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,267
    Rep Power
    0
    I've used both many times. Actually non stop (4 on 4 off) for the past 18 months. I prefer lr3 during pct and alternate between the two at other times. There aren't much major differences. DES is fast acting and out of your system fast so it would work well dosage an hour or so apart from mgf. If trying for site growth I would use DES but I'm not sold on it working for that or you can micro dose lr3. Honestly either of them are fine for what it does.

    I use 50 to 100mcg pre workout. It also works well post workout but is thought to blunt the release of natty mgf production if used post so it's better to wait an hour or two after due to cell differentiation and proliferation. I would stay in the range of 40 to 60mcg.

    I haven't tried purchase peptide but I know SRC has very strong peptides and competitive prices. Very good guy.
    TMAN-ONE likes this.

  4. #4
    Novice ColSanders's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    84
    Rep Power
    4
    thanks user... as always very good info!

    thanks conrad

  5. #5
    Moderator juced_porkchop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    7,095
    Rep Power
    16
    NOTE/update: AA is Bull shit! not needed! use BAC WATER!

    I looked into it and study used WATERLESS AA a very pure form. all this 0.5-0.7%AA is BS.



    here is some info:
    IGF stands for insulin-like growth factor. Insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) is a polypeptide protein hormone similar in molecular structure to insulin . It plays an important role in childhood growth and continues to have effects in adults. It is a natural substance that is produced in the human body and is at its highest natural levels during puberty. During puberty IGF is the most responsible for the natural muscle growth that occurs during these few years. There are many different things that IGF does in the human body. Among the effects the most positive are increased amino acid transport to cells, increased glucose transport, increased protein synthesis, decreased protein degradation, and increased RNA synthesis.
    Long R3 IGF-1 is signifacantly more potent than IGF-1. The enhanced potency is due to the decreased binding of Long R3 IGF-1 to all known IGF binding proteins. These binding proteins normally inhibit the biological actions of IGF's. When IGF is active it behaves differently in different types of tissues. In muscle cells proteins and associated cell components are stimulated. Protein synthesis is increased along with amino acid absorption. As a source of energy, IGF mobilizes fat for use as energy in adipose tissue. In lean tissue,

    IGF prevents insulin from transporting glucose across cell membranes. As a result the cells have to switch to burning off fat as a source of energy.
    IGF also mimic's insulin in the human body. It makes muscles more sensitive to insulin's effects, so if you are a person that currently uses insulin you can lower your dosage by a decent margin to achieve the same effects, and as mentioned IGF will keep the insulin from making you fat.
    The most effective form of IGF is Long R3 IGF-1, it has been chemically altered and has had amino acid changes which cause it to avoid binding to proteins in the human body and allow it to have a much longer half life, around 20-30 hours. "Long R3 IGF-1 is an 83 amino acid analog of IGF-1 comprising the complete human IGF-1 sequence with the substition of an Arg(R) for the Glu(E) at position three, hence R3, and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N terminus. This analog of IGF-1 has been produced with the purpose of increasing the biological activity of the IGF peptide."
    IGF Cycles
    The most effective length for a cycle of IGF is 50 days on and 20-40 days off. The most controversy surrounding Long R3 IGF-1 is the effective dosage.
    IGF Dosage
    The most used dosages range between 20mcg/day to 120+mcg/day. IGF is only available by the milligram, one mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 20mcg/day, 2mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 40mcg/day, 3mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 60mcg/day, 4mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 80mcg/day and so on. The dosage issue mainly revolves around how much money you have to spend, plenty of people use the minimum dosage of 20mcg/day and are happy with the results. IGF is most effective when administered subcutaneous and injected once or twice daily at your current dosage. The best time for injections is either in the morning and/or immediately after weight training (if used for body building).
    IGF Effects and Results
    Perhaps the most interesting and potent effect IGF has on the human body is its ability to cause hyperplasia, which is an actual splitting of cells. Hypertrophy is what occurs during weight training and steroid use, it is simply an increase in the size of muscle cells. See, after puberty you have a set number of muscle cells, and all you are able to do is increase the size of these muscle cells, you don't actually gain more. But, with IGF use you are able to cause this hyperplasia which actually increases the number of muscle cells present in the tissue. So in a way IGF can actually change your genetic capabilities in terms of muscle tissue and cell count. IGF proliferates and differentiates the number of types of cells present. At a genetic level it has the potential to alter an individuals capacity to build superior muscle density and size.

    Another frequently asked question of IGF refers to the real world results. With an effective dosage you can expect to gain 1-2 lbs of new lean muscle tissue every 2-3 weeks. Increased vascularity is also very common, people report seeing veins appear where they never have before.
    Overall, IGF is a very exciting drug due to its ability to alter ones genetic capabilities.


    Beginner***8217;s Guide To IGF1-lr3
    ________________________________________
    The goal of this guide is to help both those that have not used IGF-1lr3 before and for those that simply would like a methodical approach to the ***8220;mechanics***8221; of running it. This guide does not expand on the biochemistry of IGF-1, aside from a very simple introduction to it. I suggest reading a book or searching forums to educate yourself about the biochemistry of ***8220;peptides***8221; or ***8220;IGF***8221; if you require in-depth knowledge.

    I am not a physician, thus cannot and do not diagnose ailments or diseases and/or nor do I suggest that IGF-1 is a remedy for any illness or diseases. IGF-1 should be treated with much respect. It is research compound, thus you should use at your own risk.

    Currently (05/31/2008), in the United States, IGF-1lr3 is a research compound. It is legal to own this substance to the best of my knowledge (at current time). I am not an attorney, so please review your local law(s) regarding possession and administration of this therapeutic protein.

    I do not condone the usage of IGF-1lr3 unless you are qualified to do so. This guide is provided as a research & development tool only.

    IGF-1lr3 Overivew

    Background:
    Long Arg3 Insulin-like Growth Factor-I (Long-R3-IGF-I) is an 83 amino acid analog of IGF-I comprising the complete IGF-I sequence with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus. Long-R3-IGF-I is significantly more potent than IGF-I in vitro. The enhanced potency is due to the markedly decreased binding of Long-R3-IGF-I to IGF binding proteins which normally inhibit the biological actions of IGFs.



    Description:
    Recombinant Human Long-R3-IGF-I produced in E. coli is a single, non-glycosylated, polypeptide chain containing 83 amino acids and having a molecular mass of 9111 Dalton.



    0.6% Acetic Acid Overview
    Acetic Acid (AA) will be used to reconstitute (turn your lyophilized IGF-1 into a liquid form) your IGF-1. The standard is to use 0.6% AA. This concentration is typically not available for you to purchase. You can make your own 0.6% AA and I will show you how below (many have used this method successfully).

    Making 0.6% Acetic Acid
    You will have to purchase a few items upfront. Here is a ***8220;grocery list***8221; of items you will need. I have provided check boxes for you to check off once you have purchased these items.

    Items Needed:
    ***8226; Distilled white vinegar (grocery store)
    ***8226; Distilled water (grocery store)
    ***8226; 0.2-0.22um sterile Whatman syringe filter
    ***8226; 10mL syringe with a luer lock tip
    ***8226; ~20-22 gauge needles (just the needles)
    ***8226; Sterile glass vial (10-20mL)
    ***8226; Alcohol prep pads ***8211; sterile kind (70% isopropyl alcohol)


    Quick Guide:
    1. Swab the top of your sterile vial with alcohol prep pad (70% isopropyl alcohol)
    2. Mix 7.5mL distilled water with 1.0mL vinegar
    3. Add Whatman syringe filter
    4. Add sterile ~20ga. needle to end of Whatman filter
    5. Inject the 8.5mL of solution into the sterile vial
    6. You now have sterile 0.6% acetic acid



    Detailed Directions:
    1. Wash you hands thoroughly
    2. Optional: wear alcohol treated exam gloves (rub your gloved hands together with 70% isopropyl alcohol on them until dry)
    3. Using a sterile alcohol prep pad, swab the top of your sterile glass vial (into which the acetic acid solution will be held in)
    4. Using the 10mL syringe with a ~20ga. needle on the end, draw up 7.5mL distilled water
    5. Using the same syringe, now draw up 1mL vinegar
    6. Remove needle from the syringe and discard
    7. Attach 0.2-0.22um Whatman sterile syringe filter (do not touch the free end that will have a needle on it)
    8. Put a new, sterile needle (~20 gauge) onto the free end of the Whatman filter (do not touch needle)
    a. Do not use the same needle on the Whatman that was used to originally draw up the unsterile vinegar and distilled water.
    9. Put a ~20 gauge sterile needle into the top of your sterile glass vial to act as a vent
    10. Inject the acetic acid solution into the vial
    11. You are now done and should have sterile 0.6% acetic acid

    Notes:
    1. These items MUST be sterile: 20-22ga. Needles, whatman filter, glass vial
    2. Whatman filter: These small, sterile filters are used to filter the acetic acid solution so it is sterile. It does not matter that the liquid in your syringe (distilled water & vinegar) is not sterile, nor does it matter that the syringe itself is not sterile. Once the liquid goes through the filter it is STERILE. Thus, everything after the filter must be sterile!
    3. You will most likely use 1mL (milliliter) of 0.6% AA to reconstitute your IGF-1. Thus, you should make at least 1.5mL. In reality, it***8217;s just as easy to make 8.5mL as I have stated in the above directions. You will have plenty for use later then.
    4. Do NOT reuse the Whatman filter nor any needles! Discard immediately.




    Reconstituting IGF-1lr3
    Reconstitution is simply the addition of the 0.6% AA to your lyophilized IGF-1.
    Assumption: 1mg/mL IGF-1/AA (1mg IGF-1 will be combined with 1mL AA; 1mg IGF-1 is the same as 1,000mcg)

    1. Swab the top of your IGF-1 vial with a sterile alcohol prep pad
    2. Swab the top of your 0.6% AA vial with a sterile alcohol prep pad
    3. Using either multiple insulin syringe volumes (example: 2 x 0.5cc) or a single large syringe, obtain 1.0mL of 0.6% AA.
    4. In the IGF-1 vial, insert a sterile ~20 ga. needle to act as a vent
    5. Inject the 1.0mL of AA very slowly and dribble it down the side of the vial.
    a. Be very careful with this peptide as it is very delicate!
    6. Remove the needle & syringe and discard
    7. Gently swirl the vial or roll between your hands.
    a. Again, be very gentle here
    8. You now have 1mg/mL of IGF-1
    a. This is the same as: 1,000mcg/mL

    Notes:
    1. If you added 2mL of AA, it would be a 0.5mg/mL
    2. I have an Excel calculator that will help you with these calculation.


    Injecting IGF-1lr3
    If this is your first time with injections, don***8217;t worry. You will be using a very fine gauge insulin syringe which means you will most likely have nearly effortless injections. These things are so tiny and sharp you may not even feel it penetrating. If you use sterile procedure, aspirate prior to injection, and have diluted your IGF-1/AA solution with enough bacteriostatic water (BW), you should have no issues with your injections and very minimal post-injection discomfort (if any at all!).

    I cannot stress enough the importance on two topics: A) sterility, and B) pre-injection aspiration. Always swab the injection site(s) with a sterile isopropyl alcohol (IPA) pad and aspirate prior to injecting the IGF-1. No questions asked!

    You will most likely intramuscular (IM) injections, but subcutaneous (sub-q) injections are also followed by some, but current theory is that IM will yield a localized effect. By ***8220;localized effect***8221;, I am referring to the effect IGF-1 will have at the injection site. So if you inject IM into biceps, it is thought that your bicep muscles will get more of a dose of IGF-1 than other parts of your body (some which you don***8217;t want to be effected, such as the intestines). Both types of injections will have systemic effects (affecting the body as a whole). Long R3 IGF-1 has an estimated half-life of 20-30hrs (taken from IGTROPIN data).

    This guide assumes you will be doing bilateral IM injections. More below.

    Bilateral injections are injections that are evenly divided between two muscles. If you are injecting 40mcg (micrograms) bilaterally, you will be injecting 20mcg into the right bicep and 20mcg into the left bicep.

    Current theorized best practice is to you inject your peptide post workout (PWO). You have a small window of optimal opportunity. Ideally, you would inject immediately PWO, but some do not like the idea of injecting in a public location, such as the gym. Your next best option is to make your way home ASAP and have your needles loaded and ready (with your alcohol swabs sitting near by).


    Sterility
    Without a doubt, sterility is a major concern with injections. You have to be conscious of bacteria and other infectious agents at all times when performing injections or other procedures that require sterility (such as reconstitutions and making 0.6% AA).

    Bacteria (and viruses, and spores, etc) are invisible to the naked eye. Yet they are everywhere. It is very important that you acquire sterile alcohol prep pads (make sure it says ***8220;sterile***8221; before you buy them). They are extremely cheap and effective.

    Wash your hands! Before attempting anything requiring sterile technique, wash your hands and dry them with a clean paper towel (not the dirty towel hanging in the bathroom!). For optimal sterility, you may purchase exam gloves (latex or non-latex) and, after putting them on, you can dump some isopropyl alcohol (IPA) onto them and rub your hands together thoroughly. Now you really have sterile hands. Exam gloves are very inexpensive as is the bottle of IPA. IPA can be purchased for ~$1/bottle in the grocery store where the band-aids and whatnot.

    I recommend you use a fresh syringe for each injection. Yes, some choose to use one syringe, but my feeling is that the syringes are so inexpensive and the risk of cross-contamination from one injection site to the other isn***8217;t worth the risk. Furthermore, every time your syringe needle has to penetrate something (rubber stoppers in vials, skin, etc) it dulls the tip. Thus, maximum comfort is also achieved with fresh syringes.

    This topic of ***8220;one or two syringes***8221; can be argued, but if it***8217;s your first time, play it safe and get off to a great start by using 2!

    Pre-injection Aspiration
    Pre-injection aspiration is what you do after the needle has penetrated the muscle. You must gently and slightly pull back on the needle***8217;s plunger to see if you have hit a vein/artery.

    Either of two things will happen upon aspiration: A) bubbles/air and/or clear liquid will appear in the syringe (this is good), or B) blood will appear (bad).

    If A) occurs, proceed with your injection. If B) occurs, then simply withdraw the needle, and re-pin a different location in that same muscle. You do NOT want to inject your solution into a vein/artery! This may result in very serious consequences. Don***8217;t worry, you can avoid this by simply aspirating slightly. Have faith in yourself.

    Injection Procedure
    First, do not get all worked up over injecting IGF-1. Easier said than done, I know. But the reality is, the insulin syringes are extremely gentle. Also, millions of people around the world, including women and children, use these syringes daily to treat Diabetes. So you know it can***8217;t be that bad (seriously)! I highly recommend watching a couple videos on youtube regarding intramuscular (IM) injections to get a general idea of how they***8217;re done if you***8217;ve never witnessed them!

    Back-Loading With Bacteriostatic Water (BW)
    Back-loading is a process in which you dilute the IGF-1/AA solution that is in your syringe. The point is to dilute the acidity to a point that it will no longer cause tissue necrosis (death/damage) or pain upon injection. It is recommended to dilute no less than 4:1 (4 parts BW to 1 part IGF-1/AA).

    Example: If you are injecting 40mcg bilat, IM, you will have two syringes each with 20mcg IGF-1. Assume you want to draw 2 IU IGF-1. You will draw 2 IUs of the IGF-1/AA solution, then draw 2x4 = 8 IUs of BW (four times the amount of IGF-1/AA solution). The total number of IUs in each syringe will be 2 + 8 = 10 IUs. It will not hurt you if you decide to back-load with more BW. It is a personal preference.

    ***Use my Excel-based ***8220;IGF-1***8221; calculator to determine how many IUs you will need for a particular insulin syringe (1cc, 0.5cc, 0.3cc).

    Recommended Best Injection Method: Injecting bilaterally, post workout, intramuscularly (Bilat, PWO, IM)



    Items you will need
    1. Alcohol prep pads
    2. 2 insulin syringes
    3. Bacteriostatic water (BW)
    4. Optional: exam gloves
    5. Optional: IPA (to rub gloves with and to clean the surrounding area)

    Injection Directions
    1. Wash your hands thoroughly
    2. Optional: put on exam gloves and rub with IPA until dry
    3. Using an alcohol swab, clean the tops of both the IGF-1 vial and the BW vial.
    4. Using a fresh alcohol swab, thoroughly clean the injection sites (let dry)
    5. Fill each syringe with the appropriate amount of IGF-1/AA solution
    a. Do NOT touch the needles to anything but sterile surfaces!
    b. It is recommended that you clean/sanitize the area/surfaces you***8217;re working in, in case you mindlessly touch a needle to a table (or other area).
    6. Back-loading: Draw up the necessary amount of BW into each syringe.
    a. Tilt the needle up and down so the bubble(s) rise and fall, which mixes the solution slightly
    7. With the needle pointing up, flick the syringe body to get the bubbles to rise to the needle
    8. Slowly expel the air; be careful to not quirt liquid out as this wastes IGF-1
    a. It takes >3mL of air to cause harm; small volumes of accidentally injected air will most likely be absorbed by muscle tissue
    9. Insert syringe and aspirate by slightly pulling up on the plunger to see if you have hit a vessel. If you see blood, remove needle, and try again (no need to change syringes). If you do NOT see blood, proceed to inject.
    10. Perform ***8220;7.***8221; thru ***8220;9***8221; above on other side.
    11. Discard sharps in appropriate container



    Glossary

    Acetic Acid (AA): An acid that, when diluted to 0.6%, will act as a preservative for your IGF-1. An off-the-shelf version of 5% AA is distilled white vinegar; your IGF-1 may be supplied in acetic acid (usually 0.6%)

    Aspiration: The technique of checking to see if your inserted needle is in a blood vessel. It is performed by gently pulling up on the syringe plunger until you either see bubbles/air/clear liquid, or blood. If you see blood, remove needle, and re-try the insertion.

    Back-loading: The process of diluting your IGF-1/AA with bacteriostatic water, prior to injection. The purpose is to dilute the acidity of the AA so it doesn***8217;t cause tissue damage and so it doesn***8217;t cause injection burn/discomfort.
    A. Draw desired amount of IGF-1/AA solution
    B. Back-load with BW: draw desired amount of BW

    Bacteriostatic Water (BW): This is water for injection (sterile) that has benzoyl alcohol (BA) added to it to ward of contamination. You use BW to dilute your IGF-1/AA solution prior to injection (aka, ***8220;back-loading***8221.

    Bilateral Injection (bilat): An injection which involves the administration of IGF-1 in equal amounts to each side of the body. If you are injecting 40mcg IGF-1 into the biceps bilaterally, you will be injecting 20mcg into each bicep (left & right side).

    Distilled Water: Has virtually all of its impurities removed through distillation. Distillation involves boiling the water and then condensing the steam into a clean cup, leaving nearly all of the solid contaminants behind. This is NOT sterile water. It can be purchased in any grocery store in the ***8220;water***8221; isle.

    Endogenous: Substances that originate from within an organism, tissue, or cell. It is the opposite of exogenous

    Exogenous: Refers to an action or object coming from outside a system. It is the opposite of endogenous.

    IM: Intramuscular; typically refers to the type of injection where you inject a substance directly into muscle tissue

    IGF-1 lr3: A peptide that is responsible for new muscle tissue development; it is synthetic and has a much longer circulatory life than endogenous IGF-1

    Lyophilized: The form in which IGF-1 is typically supplied; this is a freeze-dried protein which is performed in a vacuum; appearance may range from a fine, loose white powder, to a white solid ***8220;paste***8221;-type substance

    PWO: Post Work Out; refers to the time period when the administration of IGF-1 is thought to be the most effective (immediately PWO).

    Reconstitution: The addition of 0.6% acetic acid to lyophilized IGF-1r3 to get it into solution. Typically one reconstitutes using 1mL or 2mL of acetic acid, yielding 1mg/mL or 2mg/mL of IGF-1/AA.

    Sub-q: Subcutaneous; typically refers to the type of injection where you inject a substance under the skin; this results in systemic distribution of substances.
    Last edited by juced_porkchop; 06-25-2013 at 05:41 PM.
    49ER, Combat Pillow and KBD like this.
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

  6. #6
    Junior Bodybuilder Conrad415's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    494
    Rep Power
    5
    ^^^ Everything you need to know

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,267
    Rep Power
    0
    And if you want the truth about igf and it's uses seek out DATBTRUE.

  8. #8
    Novice ColSanders's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    84
    Rep Power
    4
    Wow that's quite the read... thanks for all the great info JP!!!

  9. #9
    Novice Flexy Flexerson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    42
    Rep Power
    4
    I hear the shots are extremely painful. Is that because of the AA? Is there a way to mitigate the pain?

    I'm just having flashbacks of shooting Reforvit-B back in the 90's. It's not something I care to experience again.

  10. #10
    Novice ColSanders's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    84
    Rep Power
    4
    LOL I remember shooting that stuff!!! It was like liquid fire in a syringe!!! Didn't do that 2 many times... lol

  11. #11
    Junior Bodybuilder Animalized's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Between here and there!
    Posts
    411
    Rep Power
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Flexy Flexerson View Post
    I hear the shots are extremely painful. Is that because of the AA? Is there a way to mitigate the pain?
    I've read where some just backfill the rest of the slin pin with bac water and the BW helps ease the pain of the AA.

  12. #12
    Junior Bodybuilder Conrad415's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    494
    Rep Power
    5
    Difference between IGF lr3 and IGF DES
    Des is a cleaved version of IGF1-LR3. It is smaller, too small for IGF-BP to bind to and render useless, therefore it has a much greater(i believe 10x) binding affinity for IGF receptors. It also has a kinda cool ability to bind to lactic acid modified receptors, meaning when you work out the lactic acid release kinda changes the shape of some igf1 receptors, well DES is small enough to bind to those. Actually, your body produces DES postworkout in a lactic acid rich environment specifically to bind to those modified receptors=-)

    As far as non technical, i prefer DES. It is a more potent version, cost effective and i believe it offers site growth
    DES is supposedly more responsible for hyperplasia (cell splitting) and this in turn can result in more growth down the road. Also better (Crazy) pumps. Those seem to be the key points although I may be missing some. It is supposed to be injected IM bilaterally into the muscle group that is going to be worked before training.

    igf lr3 seems to be more of a nutrient partitioning agent for getting nutrients into your muscles either pre or post workout. It seems to exert effects similar to insulin, yet seems to have a leaning effect on users. I hear more reports of people using this successfully when dieting than when trying to gain actual size. Of course you can use it during a bulking phase, (which I what Dave P. suggests), but people say that they swear they get leaner when taking the stuff.

  13. #13
    Moderator juced_porkchop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    7,095
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Flexy Flexerson View Post
    I hear the shots are extremely painful. Is that because of the AA? Is there a way to mitigate the pain?

    I'm just having flashbacks of shooting Reforvit-B back in the 90's. It's not something I care to experience again.
    i NEVER had any issue with it. sting s few times a bit but only for a few min. i use a 0.5-0.7% AA solution
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

  14. #14
    Moderator juced_porkchop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    7,095
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad415 View Post
    Difference between IGF lr3 and IGF DES
    Des is a cleaved version of IGF1-LR3. It is smaller, too small for IGF-BP to bind to and render useless, therefore it has a much greater(i believe 10x) binding affinity for IGF receptors. It also has a kinda cool ability to bind to lactic acid modified receptors, meaning when you work out the lactic acid release kinda changes the shape of some igf1 receptors, well DES is small enough to bind to those. Actually, your body produces DES postworkout in a lactic acid rich environment specifically to bind to those modified receptors=-)

    As far as non technical, i prefer DES. It is a more potent version, cost effective and i believe it offers site growth
    DES is supposedly more responsible for hyperplasia (cell splitting) and this in turn can result in more growth down the road. Also better (Crazy) pumps. Those seem to be the key points although I may be missing some. It is supposed to be injected IM bilaterally into the muscle group that is going to be worked before training.

    igf lr3 seems to be more of a nutrient partitioning agent for getting nutrients into your muscles either pre or post workout. It seems to exert effects similar to insulin, yet seems to have a leaning effect on users. I hear more reports of people using this successfully when dieting than when trying to gain actual size. Of course you can use it during a bulking phase, (which I what Dave P. suggests), but people say that they swear they get leaner when taking the stuff.
    and i feel the lr3 is stronger.
    just depends on pref. only diff is release time. i see that having it around for 15-20hrs as as apossed to MAYBE 1hr (closer to 30min) with des . that lr3 will give more results. having used it i also feel like this. but yet i know others that also feel the way you do. so i guess justpick on and run with it lol. its working thats what matters i guess. :-)
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

  15. #15
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    hawaii
    Posts
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    do you know any side effects if i inject it to my vein or artery? what are the consequences by doing it this way instead of into the muscle? i have done this a few month back with myostatin & follistatin & seems to be getting good results. would appreciate for the feed back from other users who have done it.

  16. #16
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    hawaii
    Posts
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    I meant i m talking about igf1-l3

  17. #17
    Junior Bodybuilder
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    East Coast of United States
    Posts
    17
    Rep Power
    3
    where can I buy the Whatman Syringe filter 0.2-0.22um as described??

  18. #18
    Hazardous Stone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Tempe, AZ
    Posts
    1,118
    Rep Power
    12
    You want to I.V. IGF-1? Good God, why?
    Secondly, you never I.V. into an artery... (don't really know why I'm telling you this, it'll only make it more likely you'll attempt this extremely bad idea...)

    Just go w/ I.M. or sub-q, no benefit will be had from I.V. over these methods.

  19. #19
    Amateur Bodybuilder balboa270's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,951
    Rep Power
    4
    Bump

  20. #20
    Movin' On Up! anewguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    734
    Rep Power
    4
    Good bump balboa.. What a great read. So just to be sure I am clear here. I can buy the igf-1 lr3, and mix it up as stated above... Now do I have to backload BW? Or is it just to ease pain?
    Also... If 1mg is enough for a fifty day cycle at 20 mcg/day then I'd be injecting 10 into each muscle, assuming I want a symmetrical look.. That's a very lowdose correct? So more likely what I would do is use 40mcg bilatterally/day for 25 days. Good plan?

    Also... I assume it's okay to inject this into different muscle groups throughout this cycle. Such as chest post WO, then next day biceps post WO?

    I have never heard of any negative sides, or danger with this peptide... Am I missing anything? I don't want to inject then someone tell me some bad news later lol.

    Thanks

  21. #21
    Movin' On Up! anewguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    734
    Rep Power
    4
    Bump

  22. #22
    Community Veteran Zeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    4,768
    Rep Power
    8
    Donb't skimp too hard on dosages anewguy, that is where people get let down. I'm not saying go hard and heavy but 20 is too low.

  23. #23
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    0
    spam
    Last edited by juced_porkchop; 06-25-2013 at 05:49 PM.

  24. #24
    Registered User DTRAIN412's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    5
    Rep Power
    0
    IGF-1 Des and GHRP-6
    I plan to be getting 15 MG of GHRP-6 and 2 MG o IGF-1 Des, I was wondering what people recomend with stacking both, and how, when and how much to use would be best. (please give details on how to dilute and pop so im sure)

    also, do you have to pop in multiple muscles or is one spot sufficient?? Thanks

  25. #25
    Rookie
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    spam
    Last edited by juced_porkchop; 06-25-2013 at 05:49 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)

Similar Threads
  1. By Inquirer in forum Anabolic Steroid Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-04-2010, 09:47 PM
  2. By Patrick Bateman in forum Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding Articles
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-04-2010, 09:28 PM
  3. By soulsnatcher in forum Anabolic Steroid Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-19-2004, 09:14 PM
  4. By Drveejay11 in forum Anabolic Steroid Forum
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 09-12-2003, 03:54 PM
Tags for this Thread
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  

3Js Nutrition Network

juicepump







mr supps





3Js Nutrition Network

solid muscle isolate 5lb

solid muscle isolate 5lb