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  1. #1
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    milkthistle and dbol
    I was wondering if anyone here knows the answer to a ques. Is it wrong or bad to be taking my milk thistle caplet the same time that I take my dbol. I usually take my dbol 3 times a day and it is always the same time that I take my Milkthistle. This may sound stupid, but will doing that lessen the effectiveness of the dbol?

  2. #2
    Steelers = SuperBowl BiggieSwolls's Avatar
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    Taking the Milk Thistle with your Dbol should not hinder its effectiveness. Milk Thistle has a longer half life then Dbol if Im not mistaken so as far as I know, taking your Milk Thistle once a day would even be fine.

    But again, taking them at the same time will not reduce eithers effectiveness.

  3. #3
    Community Veteran hhajdo's Avatar
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    It could actually increase the bioavailability of Dbol since it decreases liver CYP3A4 which metabolizes many drugs...

  4. #4
    Junior Bodybuilder TechChemY's Avatar
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    naaaa.....I think it should be fine.

  5. #5
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    i like hhajdo's answer

  6. #6
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    cranberry extract can help with the BV of dbol too, right?

  7. #7
    Community Veteran hhajdo's Avatar
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    I did a quick search and didn't find any info about interaction of cranberry extract with p450 enzymes...

    There was a lot of talk about grapefruit juice & its interaction with some drugs (it inhibits intestinal CYP3A4)..

    Sylimarin, garlic, peppremint oil & mentol inhibit it in vitro...

    St. John's Wort induces it...

    Some other drugs were shown to inhibit it in vivo:

    Clin Pharmacokinet 2000 Jan;38(1):41-57 Related Articles, Links


    Pharmacokinetic-pharmacodynamic consequences and clinical relevance of cytochrome P450 3A4 inhibition.

    Dresser GK, Spence JD, Bailey DG.

    Department of Medicine, London Health Sciences Centre and The University of Western Ontario, Canada.

    Drug interactions occur when the efficacy or toxicity of a medication is changed by administration of another substance. Pharmacokinetic interactions often occur as a result of a change in drug metabolism. Cytochrome P450 (CYP) 3A4 oxidises a broad spectrum of drugs by a number of ********* processes. The location of CYP3A4 in the small bowel and liver permits an effect on both presystemic and systemic drug disposition. Some interactions with CYP3A4 inhibitors may also involve inhibition of P-glycoprotein. Clinically important CYP3A4 inhibitors include itraconazole, ketoconazole, clarithromycin, erythromycin, nefazodone, ritonavir and grapefruit juice. Torsades de pointes, a life-threatening ventricular arrhythmia associated with QT prolongation, can occur when these inhibitors are coadministered with terfenadine, astemizole, cisapride or pimozide. Rhabdomyolysis has been associated with the coadministration of some 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-coenzyme A reductase inhibitors ('statins') and CYP3A4 inhibitors. Symptomatic hypotension may occur when CYP3A4 inhibitors are given with some dihydropyridine calcium antagonists, as well with the phosphodiesterase inhibitor sildenafil. Excessive sedation can result from concomitant administration of benzodiazepine (midazolam, triazolam, alprazolam or diazepam) or nonbenzodiazepine (zopiclone and buspirone) hypnosedatives with CYP3A4 inhibitors. Ataxia can occur with carbamazepine, and ergotism with ergotamine, following the addition of a CYP3A4 inhibitor. Beneficial drug interactions can occur. Administration of a CYP3A4 inhibitor with cyclosporin may allow reduction of the dosage and cost of the immunosuppressant. Certain HIV protease inhibitors, e.g. saquinavir, have low oral bioavailability that can be profoundly increased by the addition of ritonavir. The clinical importance of any drug interaction depends on factors that are drug-, patient- and administration-related. Generally, a doubling or more in plasma drug concentration has the potential for enhanced adverse or beneficial drug response. Less pronounced pharmacokinetic interactions may still be clinically important for drugs with a steep concentration-response relationship or narrow therapeutic index. In most cases, the extent of drug interaction varies markedly among individuals; this is likely to be dependent on interindividual differences in CYP3A4 tissue content, pre-existing medical conditions and, possibly, age. Interactions may occur under single dose conditions or only at steady state. The pharmacodynamic consequences may or may not closely follow pharmacokinetic changes. Drug interactions may be most apparent when patients are stabilised on the affected drug and the CYP3A4 inhibitor is then added to the regimen. Temporal relationships between the administration of the drug and CYP3A4 inhibitor may be important in determining the extent of the interaction.


    Red wine inhibits it:


    Life Sci 1998;62(10):PL135-42 Related Articles, Links


    Mechanism-based inactivation of human cytochrome P450 3A4 by grapefruit juice and red wine.

    Chan WK, Nguyen LT, Miller VP, Harris RZ.

    Department of Pharmaceutics and Medicinal Chemistry, School of Pharmacy, University of the Pacific, Stockton, CA 95211, USA. wchan2@uop.edu

    Grapefruit juice is well documented to cause clinically significant increases in the plasma concentrations of many therapeutic agents. These interactions are believed to be mediated via inhibition of intestinal cytochrome P-450 3A4 (CYP3A4) by flavonoids and/or other chemicals in grapefruit juice, although the mechanism of that inhibition has not been fully characterized. Like grapefruit juice, red wine contains large amounts of flavonoids and other xenobiotics which could also mediate CYP3A4 inhibition. In this study, we investigated the mechanism of inhibition of CYP3A4 by grapefruit juice and also examined the ability of red wine to inhibit this enzyme. Both red wine and grapefruit juice potently inhibited CYP3A4 activity in a concentration-dependent manner. At 8% of natural strength, enzyme activity was inhibited almost 90 and 84%, respectively, by grapefruit juice and red wine. In contrast, white wine did not appreciably inhibit CYP3A4 activity. Grapefruit juice irreversibly inactivated CYP3A4 in a time- and NADPH-dependent manner. The rate of inactivation mediated by grapefruit juice was similar to that mediated by troleandomycin, a potent mechanism-based inhibitor of CYP3A4. Red wine also inactivated CYP3A4 but at a rate approximately 16% that of grapefruit juice. Inhibition of CYP3A4 by red wine is primarily reversible in nature. The clinical implications of this research are discussed.

  8. #8
    Novice Jock's Avatar
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    Just a question.......if I run d-bol for the first month, how much milk thistle and ALA should I take and for how long?

    Jock

  9. #9
    Community Veteran hhajdo's Avatar
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    500 -1000 mg MT/ALA for at least as long as you're using 17AAs.

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