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  • 1 Post By Hacksquater
  1. #1
    Trained and Educated Hacksquater's Avatar
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    How Much TESTOSTERONE?
    After doing intensive research on this subject I found this info below very interesting about testosterone doses (especially since I have been dabbling in the 400-600mg range). The answer is by someone considered by some as a guru in the sport.

    Question: how much exogenous testosterone do I (at 220 lbs., 5' 10'') require per week to maximize my gains and minimize my side effects.
    I get asked this question time and time again and its a hard one to answer but I will give you my best guess based on years of empirical data observing and noting how other bodybuilders respond to varying dosages of testosterone (T). It is my experience that 1000 mg (1 gram) of testosterone (T) per week (taken in divided doses every other day) provides an adequate stimulus for muscle growth. Since testosterone is a man's primary muscle-building hormone, it makes sense to utilize it to maximize muscle gains. When one begins administering T at 250-500mg per week, endogenous T production begins to shut down and there is very little noticeable muscle mass gains (most weight gain is water at this point). However, as T dosages reach 1000mg per week, muscle gains are maximized. As one increases the dose over 1000mg T per week, more aromatization (conversion to estrogen) occurs and quantitatively less T is available for muscle building. Likewise, if one adds an anti-aromatase such as Arimidex to the mix, less estrogen is produced but more dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is produced. DHT production (which can result in acne, hair loss, and prostate enlargement) has very little direct anabolic properties, therefore, we are back to the same empirical conclusion-- 1000mg T per week maximizes muscle gains while minimizing estrogen and DHT production-- the two hormones responsible for testosterone-induced side effects.
    Last edited by Hacksquater; 04-29-2010 at 12:36 PM.
    renat0 likes this.

  2. #2
    Junior Bodybuilder MrRage's Avatar
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    i call bullshit

  3. #3
    Community Veteran Mudge's Avatar
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    It wont be the same in everyone, thats a big problem. I don't think most of us "need" to get over a gram or much over it, I'm pretty happy ~600-750.
    He who overcomes others has force; He who overcomes himself is strong. Lao-tzu

  4. #4
    Pro Bodybuilder R1rider's Avatar
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    im happy with 6-750 also. monster gains with minimal sides

  5. #5
    Moderator juced_porkchop's Avatar
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    I knwo soem happy with 300-500mg ew.
    me since as of late i have found 800-1g ew to be best for me with NO diff in sides. acually I seem to get more acne on LOWER dose. weird I know.
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

  6. #6
    Moderator juced_porkchop's Avatar
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    every ones diff. I ran dbol at 75mg ed for 6 weeks (i ususally stick to 40-50mg ed) and had no issues but even 25mg of drol is toomuch. and ill never get more ever again.
    fuk drol! >:-(
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

  7. #7
    Trained and Educated Hacksquater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRage View Post
    i call bullshit
    Based on...

  8. #8
    Junior Bodybuilder MrRage's Avatar
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    based on for a long time guys were doing no where near a gram of test and were just fine. Studies show lean muscle gains that are non water at 300-500 a week... etc etc etc...

  9. #9
    Trained and Educated Hacksquater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRage View Post
    based on for a long time guys were doing no where near a gram of test and were just fine. Studies show lean muscle gains that are non water at 300-500 a week... etc etc etc...
    Personally I would not dismiss the info so quickly as "Bullshit."

    "Just fine" is not what the question was about. It was about "max gains" and minimizing sides at the same time.

    Another thing is that IFBB pros commonly go up into the 5g-ish range. More amateurs tend to go into the 600-750 maybe 1g range. This is an IFBB pro himself and he works with countless pros and amateurs. So, I'm just not sure we can blow the information off so easily as pure bullshit.

    What studies say that the 300-500 range is ideal for gains while keeps sides off? Even if a study exists, we need to compare it and weight it with empirical data, because studies are not flawless.

    I'm curious what others will say here. I think the issue is worth weighing.

  10. #10
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    Pros may go that high, but I have more than a dozen runs under my belt and I have run
    1grm/ew of Test and I didn't get any better gains than 750mg/ew. Depending on how long you have been in the game means alot, but personally if you eat right-exercise right-rest right, you should do just fine @500-750mg/ew

  11. #11
    Trained and Educated Hacksquater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juced_porkchop View Post
    I knwo soem happy with 300-500mg ew.
    me since as of late i have found 800-1g ew to be best for me with NO diff in sides. acually I seem to get more acne on LOWER dose. weird I know.
    That would seem to gel with what he is saying here.

  12. #12
    Amateur Bodybuilder JMB1's Avatar
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    1 gram of test per week is a base to add other compounds.
    I would never suggest this to anyone, as my BB goals may
    be different than other people.

  13. #13
    Trained and Educated Hacksquater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMB1 View Post
    1 gram of test per week is a base to add other compounds.
    I would never suggest this to anyone, as my BB goals may
    be different than other people.
    I think we have to take into consideration that this guy is communicating with more serious competitive people tying to maximize their gains, not your average gym rat.

    Interestingly I came across some info on Lee Haney and at that time it seems a conservative amount of test as a base, was about 1g a week. This was just about the time where doses were about to explode into the 90's

    I knew a guy who's best friend was good friends w Haney and at the time I inquired, he said Lee was doing "5 Things, including something that made his bones grow"

    I think Lee was fairly conservative and maybe the 1g of test was a base amount.

  14. #14
    Community Veteran DADAWG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksquater View Post
    Personally I would not dismiss the info so quickly as "Bullshit."

    "Just fine" is not what the question was about. It was about "max gains" and minimizing sides at the same time.

    Another thing is that IFBB pros commonly go up into the 5g-ish range. More amateurs tend to go into the 600-750 maybe 1g range. This is an IFBB pro himself and he works with countless pros and amateurs. So, I'm just not sure we can blow the information off so easily as pure bullshit.

    What studies say that the 300-500 range is ideal for gains while keeps sides off? Even if a study exists, we need to compare it and weight it with empirical data, because studies are not flawless.

    I'm curious what others will say here. I think the issue is worth weighing.
    there is a HUGE difference between the dose a regular guy needs to grow and the dose of a pro whos carring 40 or more pounds of lean mass OVER his natural limit.
    it is impossible to compare these 2 situations and the people who are carrying a large amount of lean mass over their genetic limit are less than 1% of the people on these boards.
    NOT ONLY IS STUPIDITY INCURABLE BUT ITS ALSO CONTAGIOUS OVER THE INTERNET.

    VAR ONLY CYCLES ARE ONLY FOR PEOPLE WITH A VAGINA.

  15. #15
    Trained and Educated Hacksquater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DADAWG View Post
    there is a HUGE difference between the dose a regular guy needs to grow and the dose of a pro whos carring 40 or more pounds of lean mass OVER his natural limit.
    it is impossible to compare these 2 situations and the people who are carrying a large amount of lean mass over their genetic limit are less than 1% of the people on these boards.
    Good point.

    So back to the main question presented to the "guru advisor" guy:

    Question: How much exogenous testosterone do I (at 220 lbs., 5' 10'') require per week to maximize my gains and minimize my side effects (both average user and more experienced competitor)?

    Do you agree for a competitive bb'er that his advice is sound?

  16. #16
    Community Veteran DADAWG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksquater View Post
    Good point.

    So back to the main question presented to the "guru advisor" guy:

    Question: How much exogenous testosterone do I (at 220 lbs., 5' 10'') require per week to maximize my gains and minimize my side effects (both average user and more experienced competitor)?

    Do you agree for a competitive bb'er that his advice is sound?
    impossible to devise a formula based on stats. EVERONE is different , especally in the sides department, i know guys who bloat when the walk by a test vial and i know guys who can run 1000 mg and over with very little sides.
    NOT ONLY IS STUPIDITY INCURABLE BUT ITS ALSO CONTAGIOUS OVER THE INTERNET.

    VAR ONLY CYCLES ARE ONLY FOR PEOPLE WITH A VAGINA.

  17. #17
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    750 is a great dose-a gram is good but i do get more acne
    Need TRT? >>>>>>> Call IMT >>>>>>>>>Real Programs, Real Results

    IncreaseMyT.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 866-206-9926

  18. #18
    Trained and Educated Hacksquater's Avatar
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    I think I'll do 600-750 this next run, than save 1g maybe for the future.
    Last edited by Hacksquater; 05-01-2010 at 05:04 PM.

  19. #19
    Trained and Educated Hacksquater's Avatar
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    Maybe the 1g mark is a general ideal (give or take 250mg) a week for a competitor...

  20. #20
    Junior Bodybuilder USAF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juced_porkchop View Post
    every ones diff. I ran dbol at 75mg ed for 6 weeks (i ususally stick to 40-50mg ed) and had no issues but even 25mg of drol is toomuch. and ill never get more ever again.
    fuk drol! >:-(
    I know this thread is old, so dont bash me.. I do have to ask though. What brand dbol were you running?

  21. #21
    Novice keith1569's Avatar
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    thats an interesting topic..i think that if you are just running 1g of test only that could be fine because many people here have a total of over a gram of gear they are running..example..500 test 600 eq or 750 test 500 eq..whatever you want..

  22. #22
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    Im at 1200 and I get no acne, no testicular atrophy, not much increase on libido, I think my shit is bunk, (for the 3rd time in a row)
    I keep using different sources and still get hosed

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksquater View Post
    Based on...
    Variables.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksquater View Post
    Good point.

    So back to the main question presented to the "guru advisor" guy:

    Question: How much exogenous testosterone do I (at 220 lbs., 5' 10'') require per week to maximize my gains and minimize my side effects (both average user and more experienced competitor)?

    Do you agree for a competitive bb'er that his advice is sound?
    For any newbies reading this, the OP's above quote is nothing more than 100% grade A bullshit. (not the OP, just the info contained in the quote) And quite frankly, i don't care if the quote is from Arnold Schwarzenegger.

    DADAWG nailed it. Every single person metabolizes at different rates. Therefore this cannot be a blanket statement that fits anyone but yourself. And only if you have tried it and noted the effects on YOU.

    IMHO, this topic only serves to encourage newbies to run higher than necessary doses of Testosterone. Something to consider.

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