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Thus spake

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    Thus spake
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    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 09:36 AM:

    PolishHammer1977

    What's going on here? PolishHammer1977 met with us in our offices in New York to interview for the Community Administrator position. He seemed like a nice enough guy and one who might be appropriate for the job. BRR called him and told him we were still interviewing, but we liked him and would be getting back to him. We were planning to have him back for another interview, but then we see that he made a cryptic farewell post of the raining Forum, said he would be at Chemical Muscle, and said we would be banning him soon. Now he is not returning our calls. Do any of you have any idea what this is all about? Is someone still spreading BS about us?


    Posted by The Shadow on Yesterday 10:17 AM:

    Why not ask him?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex on Yesterday 10:25 AM:

    First I've heard of it?

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by 2Thick on Yesterday 10:46 AM:

    I have no idea what is going on there.
    __________________________________________________ ____

    Posted by velvett on Yesterday 10:47 AM:

    When was this interview?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 11:02 AM:

    No clue....weird.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 11:11 AM:
    quote:

    Originally posted by The Shadow
    Why not ask him?
    We tried he's not returning our calls.
    __________________________________________________ ____

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Originally posted by velvett
    when was this interview?
    __________________________________________________ _____
    On 11 14.

    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by velvett on Yesterday 11:30 AM:
    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Originally posted by George Spellwin

    On 11 14.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Nice.
    So it was by all means not 4 months ago?

    Dear Snoop,

    Please make sure you spread the information you read on this board to all the correct people/friends.


    p.s. Have a nice Turkey Day as well.


    v

    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by Big Rick Rock on Yesterday 12:07 PM:

    I just got off the phone with polishhammer, he has been working 10hr days so he hasn't had any time to call us. He was on his break now so he dropped me a line. He basically said that some people approached him(wouldn't give me any names) and told him "there are some fucked up things going on at elite" and "there will be something real big going down, and you will go down too" even though polishhammer doesn't even used AS. What happened with him was basically the same thing that happened with everybody else....
    They were fed a bunch of random lies, (nothing concrete because the story changes every couple of days) and rather than stick around to figure out what is what, he just decided to leave. I・m a little bit upset about all of this since I have always liked polishhammer, and even consider him a friend in a sort of way. He is a good guy and he was just influenced by some of the :BIGGER THAN LIFE; internet personas that are out to get us.
    I・ll just chalk this one up to experience, he is a good level headed bro, I shared a lot of personal info with him.... I would have never expect him to buy into the bullshit without hearing our side first..... Goes to show you how good people(REAL LIFE good people) can be deeply influenced and manipulated, by a guy who spends 10hrs a day indoors, in front of a PC, making a name for himself. Kinda sucks.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by Mr.X on Yesterday 01:01 PM:

    George I need to talk to you ASAP, I tried to contact the office numerous times and no response.

    you know my contact info plz get in touch ASAP

    or email me a way I can directly get in touch w / you : Mr.X@keptprivate.com
    it's urgent

    Mr.X


    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by Fonz on Yesterday 03:24 PM:

    BRR, its been hapenning all over the boards I frequent.

    People with like less than 10 posts start threads about how EF mail is insecure and how the feds can read our mail.

    Now, anybody with a grasp of computers knows this is total BS....but newbies don't know any better.

    Make no mistake......the anti EF propaganda war has just started.

    Fonz

    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 03:47 PM:

    Do we know who is doing this?

    And why would Hammer not say who he spoke with? It is in the entire community's interest for this to be public.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by Fonz on Yesterday 03:53 PM:

    quote:

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by George Spellwin
    Do we know who is doing this?

    And why would Hammer not say who he spoke with? It is in the entire community's interest for this to be public.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    This might generate some resentment, but all roads seem to go back to Chemical Muscle.

    Seems a lot of behind the scenes e mailing has been happenning. I've been getting more and more e mails regarding people who are asking me wether EF mal is secure or not.

    As pathetic as it seems......I think this is some person(s) warped
    version of revenge.

    Fonz

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 03:53 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by Big Rick Rock
    I just got off the phone with polishhammer, he has been working 10hr days so he hasn't had any time to call us. He was on his break now so he dropped me a line. He basically said that some people approached him(wouldn't give me any names) and told him "there are some fucked up things going on at elite" and "there will be something real big going down, and you will go down too" even though polishhammer doesn't even used AS. What happened with him was basically the same thing that happened with everybody else....
    They were fed a bunch of random lies, (nothing concrete because the story changes every couple of days) and rather than stick around to figure out what is what, he just decided to leave. I・m a little bit upset about all of this since I have always liked polishhammer, and even consider him a friend in a sort of way. He is a good guy and he was just influenced by some of the :BIGGER THAN LIFE; internet personas that are out to get us.
    I・ll just chalk this one up to experience, he is a good level headed bro, I shared a lot of personal info with him.... I would have never expect him to buy into the bullshit without hearing our side first..... Goes to show you how good people(REAL LIFE good people) can be deeply influenced and manipulated, by a guy who spends 10hrs a day indoors, in front of a PC, making a name for himself. Kinda sucks.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    He is not a good bro. He bought into the lies, told members we were going to delete his account for no reason, and announced his departure for Chemical Muscle as if to say Elite's fucked chemical muscle is the place to be.

    He would not speak to us before doing this to hear our side of the story even though he was interviewing for a job here. And he does not have the balls to say who fed him all this BS so we can do something about the misinformation out there. That's not my definition of a good bro and I'm glad I learned what I have before I hired him to help our members.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 03:58 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Originally posted by velvett

    Nice.

    So it was by all means not 4 months ago?

    Dear Snoop,

    Please make sure you spread the information you read on this board to all the correct people/friends.

    p.s. Have a nice Turkey Day as well.

    v
    __________________________________________________ _____
    No it was just over a week ago. November 14th at 11AM.


    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 05:23 PM:

    You need names ? I know for a fact, Kronk is behind this. He's been PMing people over at Steroidology and thanks to some level headed person like mvmax(?) and Dballer, not everyone bought his stories. Sucks cause for a while I thought Kronk was a good guy and mostly, someone successful outside the boards. To be playing these 10yr old games, he must not be what he used to picture online.

    I guess Ra/Kronk and the others have something behind their heads. Dunno what all of this is just getting ridiculous...
    __________________________________________________ ____
    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 05:24 PM:

    oh and rememeber this: whenever I asked them to tell me why/what was going on, no one gave me a straight answer with facts. Just rumors. Probably cause they know it would take me 1 2 phone calls to validate all this BS...
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by Fonz on Yesterday 05:25 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by manny78
    You need names ? I know for a fact, Kronk is behind this. He's been PMing people over at Steroidology and thanks to some level headed person like mvmax(?) and Dballer, not everyone bought his stories. Sucks cause for a while I thought Kronk was a good guy and mostly, someone successful outside the boards. To be playing these 10yr old games, he must not be what he used to picture online.

    I guess Ra/Kronk and the others have something behind their heads. Dunno what all of this is just getting ridiculous...
    __________________________________________________ _____

    So far I have two people pegged:

    1. Kronk
    2. Citruscide

    They have been using multiple alises on different boards. The one thing they forgot about, is that its next to impossible to hide your writing style.

    Fonz
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 05:29 PM:

    and Ra ? who is this ? Kronk right ?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by MattTheSkywalker on Yesterday 05:48 PM:

    I had talked with PolishHammer in the past and he seemed liek a decent guy.

    However, these recent developments demonstrate that he is not a deisrbale hire for the position. Easy enough.

    In other news, as most of you probably know he is very active at ChemicalMuscle and perhaps found a home there.

    As to other nonsense, Kronk is behind much of it, and so is Citrus. Citrus is a young lawyer with a degree from a nothing law school the kind of guy who would spend a lot of time on the web and seem intelligent to the typical 20 year old. Citrus undoubtedly likes this attention as it is his escape from being mired in a sucky law career.

    I don't know if I can find out anything else from PH1977 we don;t talk much anymore, but if there is more you need to know, I will try and find it out.

    Matt
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 06:16 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by manny78
    You need names ? I know for a fact, Kronk is behind this. He's been PMing people over at Steroidology and thanks to some level headed person like mvmax(?) and Dballer, not everyone bought his stories. Sucks cause for a while I thought Kronk was a good guy and mostly, someone successful outside the boards. To be playing these 10yr old games, he must not be what he used to picture online.

    I guess Ra/Kronk and the others have something behind their heads. Dunno what all of this is just getting ridiculous...

    __________________________________________________ _____
    Thanks for the heads up. Do you really think someone or an agency has something on them? That would make a lot of sense their attempts to bring this site down diverts a lot of attention but from what I have no idea.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 06:17 PM:

    Re: Re: PolishHammer1977

    quote:

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by Mr.X


    George I need to talk to you ASAP, I tried to contact the office numerous times and no response.

    you know my contact info plz get in touch ASAP

    or email me a way I can directly get in touch w / you : Mr.X@keptprivate.com
    it's urgent

    Mr.X
    __________________________________________________ _____

    I will call you Monday thanks so much for your support and help.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 06:19 PM:
    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by Fonz

    So far I have two people pegged:

    1. Kronk
    2. Citruscide

    They have been using multiple alises on different boards. The one thing they forgot about, is that its next to impossible to hide your writing style.

    Fonz

    __________________________________________________ _____

    You're good!
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 06:21 PM:

    I spoke to Polish, and he said that he didn't even know kronk was EF Sam until the interview. He said the reason he became angry is because he showed up to the interview, you asked him interrogative personal questions that weren't typical of a job interview (his family, very specific questions about who he had met from the boards, etc...). He said you even asked for kronk's physical description and location. Told him that Kronk was a loser in real life (which isn't true), among other lies. And BRR, he said that you specifically told him you had been reading PMs, and other personal info. None of the questions that were asked were typical of a job interview or were designed to get to know him in a professional way. That made him suspicious and uncomfortable.

    Combine that with the fact that someone matching Paul's description, who called himself "Doug" kept staring at his crotch, and he supposedly called that person on the carpet about it.

    I'm not taking sides here, but trust me when I say that if you don't have the purest of intentions with Polish, you're not going to like it when he finally blows. It's not a family I'd fuck with, no matter who you are.

    I'm simply delivering third party information that I have been approved by Polish to share with you. Please be careful about calling him a liar, cause the kid records everything.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 06:23 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by MattTheSkywalker
    I had talked with PolishHammer in the past and he seemed liek a decent guy.

    However, these recent developments demonstrate that he is not a deisrbale hire for the position. Easy enough.

    In other news, as most of you probably know he is very active at ChemicalMuscle and perhaps found a home there.

    As to other nonsense, Kronk is behind much of it, and so is Citrus. Citrus is a young lawyer with a degree from a nothing law school the kind of guy who would spend a lot of time on the web and seem intelligent to the typical 20 year old. Citrus undoubtedly likes this attention as it is his escape from being mired in a sucky law career.

    I don't know if I can find out anything else from PH1977 we don;t talk much anymore, but if there is more you need to know, I will try and find it out.

    Matt
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Matt,

    That's what bothers me too PH1977 seemed like a really nice guy. BRR thought so too. And he knows a lot about training. We were almost certainly going to hire him.

    I believe he works in construction and we had some flexibility with his salary, so I would think he would rather be working with us and that this would have been a good change for him. Someone must have really scared him to make him act the way that he has.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 06:44 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    I spoke to Polish, and he said that he didn't even know kronk was EF Sam until just a few days ago. He said the reason he became angry is because he showed up to the interview, you asked him interrogative personal questions that weren't typical of a job interview. He said you even asked for kronk's physical description and location. Told him that Kronk was a loser in real life (which isn't true), among other lies. And BRR, he said that you specifically told him you had been reading PMs, and other personal info. None of the questions that were asked were typical of a job interview or were designed to get to know him in a professional way. That made him suspicious and uncomfortable.

    Combine that with the fact that someone matching Paul's description, who called himself "Doug" kept staring at his crotch, and he supposedly called that person on the carpet about it.

    I'm not taking sides here, but trust me when I say that if you don't have the purest of intentions with Polish, you're not going to like it when he finally blows. It's not a family I'd fuck with, no matter who you are.

    I'm simply delivering third party information that I have been approved by Polish to share with you. Please be careful about calling him a liar, cause the kid records everything.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Spatts,

    I have never heard more bizarre BS anywhere in my life.

    BRR and I were both present for the interview. During the interview, no one called himself Doug.

    No personal question were asked. In fact, we were so by the book that I had coached BRR on questions not to be asked like your age, the year you graduated from college, if you are married, etc.

    I know kronk's physical address he worked for me remember? I also know his home phone number and his social security number. Why would I ask Polish Hammer about that?

    There was no staring at crotches, and no one got called out for staring at crotches.

    There was no discussion of PM's. Rather we discussed his resume and the position.

    There are no "intentions" for Polish other than as a candidate for the "Community Administrator" position which we are still looking to fill by the way. I have no idea what you mean by "intentions."

    The only thing that was peculiar about the interview was that he brought with him someone whom we assume was his spouse or girlfriend. I never understood why she was there, but there she was the whole time.

    I hope you're not getting sucked into this too.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 06:46 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    He said you even asked for kronk's physical description and location. Told him that Kronk was a loser in real life (which isn't true), among other lies.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    I think Kronk physical description isnt too hard to find since he posted a pic a year ago I think of him, Kronkette, Pauly and Aziareign. Dunno about him being a loser in real life, but they way he acts online makes me wonder a lot...
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 06:53 PM:

    The way he "supposedly" acts online. There are as many people buying the story here as there are buying Kronk's story there.

    Personally, I have yet to hear Kronk badmouth Elite. He was accused of deleting those threads, which can't possibly be true. Then he posted his side of the stories on Elite, where supposedly BRR and George committed slander, which will be pursued legally (again, 3rd party info). Supposedly George also refused to give him his final check, which is illegal even on commission basis (per the Fair Labor Standard Act Wages and Hours regulations).

    I see a lot of accusations, conspiracty theories, and people thinking that know a thing or two about something they, in fact, DON'T.

    I don't think anyone except Kronk, Rick, and George really knows jack shit. As far as I'm concerned, it can stay that way.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 06:56 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Thanks for the heads up. Do you really think someone or an agency has something on them?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    I'll take a look
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 06:57 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by George Spellwin

    I hope you're not getting sucked into this too.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    I have my concerns. There are things that don't add up. But I don't expect any of you to tell me the truth, so I'm just training and doing my best to stay out of it. Remember, I have met around 90 people from this board. It's hard for me to believe a lot of the things I'm hearing about people I've gotten to know quite well.

    By "intentions" I meant that even if you don't intend to offend, Polish was offended, and that's not good.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 07:04 PM:

    Not trying to take sides but the PM thing is funny. I mean we all know Admins can read PMs through Vb software. Big deal. PMs arent suppose to be used for illegal purpose anyway. I guess I have nothing to worry about unlike some folks. Now the E mail thing spread by Kronk on Steroidology is so lame. I have yet to figure out a way someone could read E mails on Hush server. If we could (LE), we wouldn't need to figure out 10 millions way to get that damn key stroke logger on someone's computer or have to subpoena his ISP (which is useless in 95% of the cases). Come on, Kronk works in the software business right ?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 07:07 PM:

    Manny, the way it was explained to me (and I did contact them to ask about it since I'm not up to speed on these things) is that the Elite mail goes through Elite first and THEN through hushmail, or some such. Again, just one of a million things we've "heard" in the last few weeks.

    ...and no, Kronk doesn't work in the software business. Man, you guys have him pegged all wrong. He and his wife come here to my home, his daughter plays with our son, kronk won't let you buy anything. There aren't a whole lot of people nicer than kronk and lilK. I have no idea how all this whipping boy shit gets perpetuated. I haven't even been able to catch him online lately because they are getting ready for their daughters Thanksgiving production at school, lilk is sewing her costume, etc. He is hurt because there were supposedly lies told about him. I would be hurt too. Like I said though, none of us know the truth, and unless George wants to show us copies of unethical billing errors in the affiliate system, we never will.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 07:08 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by manny78
    Not trying to take sides but the PM thing is funny. I mean we all know Admins can read PMs through Vb software. Big deal. PMs arent suppose to be used for illegal purpose anyway. I guess I have nothing to worry about unlike some folks. Now the E mail thing spread by Kronk on Steroidology is so lame. I have yet to figure out a way someone could read E mails on Hush server. If we could (LE), we wouldn't need to figure out 10 millions way to get that damn key stroke logger on someone's computer or have to subpoena his ISP (which is useless in 95% of the cases). Come on, Kronk works in the software business right ?

    __________________________________________________ _____


    More stupid still is that now Citruscide is using a cyber rights email address. Cyber Rights is a hush partner in exactly the same program that we are in.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 07:11 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ ____
    Originally posted by spatts
    Manny, the way it was explained to me (and I did contact them to ask about it since I'm not up to speed on these things) is that the Elite mail goes through Elite first and THEN through hushmail, or some such. Again, just one of a million things we've "heard" in the last few weeks.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Read this by mvmaxx: [url]http://www.steroidology.com/forum/s...?threadid=20572[/url]

    I'm in no way an expert but I've been told this by many comp. gurus. No one ever told me the opposite
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 07:16 PM:

    Although we should have offset from any final check the customer order money that Kronk diverted into his paypal account, we paid him promptly last week upon receipt of a company phone. Kronk claims he gave the customer order money to Ranger and that Ranger is in fact the actual owner of ChemicalMuscle and Ranger seems to concur. As such, when we have had the chance to review the full extent of the damages, we will ask Ranger to reimburse us.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 07:18 PM:

    How can there be damages if his personal and professional affiliate amounts were the same?

    I'm asking here, not being pointed. I want to understand how he did something wrong. If you're going to give me details, then I may as well make sure I understand what you're saying, right?


    ...and correct, kronk does not own CM.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by George Spellwin on Yesterday 07:44 PM:

    Spatts,

    We take orders over the phone on our 888 613 8959 toll free phone number. The revenue from our phone orders is ours 100%. These phone orders have nothing to do with ChemicalMuscle.

    Kronk used ChemicalMuscle's affiliate link to place our phone orders which resulted in ChemicalMuscle making a 50% commission on our phone orders. The money was paid to a PayPal account that kronk owns.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by Fonz on Yesterday 07:47 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by George Spellwin
    Spatts,

    We take orders over the phone on our 888 613 8959 toll free phone number. The revenue from our phone orders is ours 100%. These phone orders have nothing to do with ChemicalMuscle.

    Kronk used ChemicalMuscle's affiliate link to place our phone orders which resulted in ChemicalMuscle making a 50% commission on our phone orders. The money was paid to a PayPal account that kronk owns.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    So basically he was caught stealing?

    Fonz
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 08:33 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by George Spellwin
    Fonz, join me in Platinum Chat please.
    __________________________________________________ _____


    Discussing this in private is exactly why people aren't being trusted. I know I'm wondering why you have to discuss this privately. I'm even more curious now that the post has been deleted.

    George, Kronk told me that his arrangement with you was to make a commission on all orders. In fact, his affiliate account g.o/xxx was set up by you and him back at the first of the year, and that is cookied on his computer, and you encouraged him to take orders and generate a commission.

    You told Xxx, and the public at alrge here at Elite, and I quote:

    A special link had been provided to our support person for use in placing phone orders. Placing the orders through his special link would allow us to calculate and pay a sales commission on your inbound phone orders that were taken by our support rep.

    Why would you tell him that you gave him a link (g.o/xxx, the affiliate link) to place phone orders and receive a commission if he wasn't supposed to?

    You told him the board was struggling financially, and kronk needed his job desperately, so he told you not to even bother paying him a commission, but you did twice. All orders, whether through CM or Kronk were the same commission amount, so there's no loss there. Seems the only difference here to me is that you think phone orders were 100% Elite's and he thinks that you told him that all orders were his. He has email from you reflecting that arrangement, and also where you emailed him recently and told him that you don't think he did anything wrong. I don't know about the others, but those are some confusing details. It's basically your word against his, only he seems to have some proof, in writing, that he didn't "steal."

    Also there were only 1 2 phone orders per week, according to Kronk, and his paypal payment log reflects this as well.

    Ranger says he contacted you via email on several occasions to say that if anything was the least bit unethical, with regard to the billing, that he would promptly fix the problem. He said he never heard back.

    From April to August ALL funds for CM went to Xxx, and you were aware of that, as you helped him set up his affiliation. For the last 4 months, those funds have been going to a corporate account for 'Chemical Muscle" which isn't even Xxx's. You can also see the g.o/chemical log, and these jive with what Xxx said.

    In terms of salary, you hired Xxx by the hour. According to the Fair Labor Standards Act, you are required to pay Xxx for every hour he worked and 1.5 times that rate for overtime. This is federal regulation, and does not qualify as a collective bargaining agreement or commision situation, as you made that possibility null and void the very first time you paid him by the hour. He was hired at $10 and hour for 5 hours a day (originally 3hours) for a total of $1000 a month. He was working about 10 15 hours a day, plus weekend meetings with you via phone/internet. Techincally, he could go retroactive on you for 6 months of actual wages, all of which the EF SAM log can verify the hours on. Many of us can also verify, by the nature of being on the board all the time, that he WAS in fact here helping people what seemed to be AROUND the clock.

    Seems to me that the thousands of dollars you could potentially owe him, should he pursue that, don't even compare to 1 2 phone orders per week, that he only received commission on twice, and believes he placed precisely as you directed.

    Also, consultations people paid "George Spellwin" for were done by him, and not you, which he wasn't paid for. I believe you charge around $800 and something for these?


    Also, the process to get rid of him started several months ago, and once he was fired, he was left on as a mod. Why would you do that for a thief? Why would you send that thief an email saying you know he did nothing wrong? It wasn't until kronk retired a week later, and told his friends he was no longer EF Sam, that shit hit the fan. People started leaving, and THAT'S when the drama started. If Kronk wanted to start drama, he could've done it the previous Tuesday when he was fired, but he didn't.

    I know both kronk and Polish VERY well. I can tell you that they don't know eachother very well, rarely talk to eachother, etc...Polish is not upset because of things kronk told him. He's upset for reasons I stated above (which you say are lies).

    Again, please don't chastise me personally for this information. I'm just telling you what I know.

    The truth, I still have no clue about. I probably never will. Again, I'm ok with that.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 09:21 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Again, please don't chastise me personally for this information. I'm just telling you what I know.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Honestly I'm lost. For a moment a thought you were taking sides then I read this. Maybe my reading skills are just poor, but I haven't seen the word "pretends" or anything similar, which is normal when bringing up someone's version.

    But anyway, we're beating a dead horse. This may take several years before even going to court (if it ever goes) and bottom line, me too I have no clue and could care less. Last thing I want is this turning into a board war, which would be the lamest thing ever...


    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 09:25 PM:

    I was telling what I know. Don't miss the forest through the trees by downplaying my efforts as "Taking sides." If I thought people were going to take it that way, I'd keep it to myself. George and Rick seem like they are willing and eager to communicate the truth, and you can't get there without two accurate sides of the story. It just so happens that I've only been given one.
    Of all the things I brought up in the post, you choose that to comment on. Geez.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by Big Rick Rock on Yesterday 09:25 PM:

    quote:


    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    I spoke to Polish, and he said that he didn't even know kronk was EF Sam until the interview. He said the reason he became angry is because he showed up to the interview, you asked him interrogative personal questions that weren't typical of a job interview (his family, very specific questions about who he had met from the boards, etc...). He said you even asked for kronk's physical description and location. Told him that Kronk was a loser in real life (which isn't true), among other lies. And BRR, he said that you specifically told him you had been reading PMs, and other personal info. None of the questions that were asked were typical of a job interview or were designed to get to know him in a professional way. That made him suspicious and uncomfortable.

    Combine that with the fact that someone matching Paul's description, who called himself "Doug" kept staring at his crotch, and he supposedly called that person on the carpet about it.

    I'm not taking sides here, but trust me when I say that if you don't have the purest of intentions with Polish, you're not going to like it when he finally blows. It's not a family I'd fuck with, no matter who you are.

    I'm simply delivering third party information that I have been approved by Polish to share with you. Please be careful about calling him a liar, cause the kid records everything.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    What da? Who da? AM I IN THE FUCKING TWILIGHT ZONE ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! "Doug"? who the fuck is "Doug"?

    I spoke to polish on the phone earlier today about him leaving Elite. He told me his reasons..... He never made any mention about the interview or anything related!!!! He just said he heard "things" and decided to leave.... Now there is this whole story about his interview??? spatts the scene that you are describing sounds nothing like the interview that I wintnessed.

    This shit get weirder by the minute... Gosh on the bright side at least he didn't confirm that i was a FED right?

    I just can't belive that polish would say that stuff... I'm not questioning you spatts, but if you don't mind I'm going to drop him an e mail quoting you and ask him is he really feels like this is what happened.... I don't think him and I were at the same interview.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 09:28 PM:

    Please do. Why don't you paste in his reply while you're at it. I will go ahead and copy what I said to him as well, for accuracy.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 09:36 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    I was telling what I know. Don't miss the forest through the trees by downplaying my efforts as "Taking sides." If I thought people were going to take it that way, I'd keep it to myself. George and Rick seem like they are willing and eager to communicate the truth, and you can't get there without two accurate sides of the story. It just so happens that I've only been given one.

    Of all the things I brought up in the post, you choose that to comment on. Geez.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    I took this part of your post cause it looked funny. Especially after reading the rest. Just skip this part and post it on any forum. The average Joe would think you're siding with Kronk.

    What I dont understand with Kronk and since you seem to be good friend with him you might be able to tell me is, why did Kronk wait after he got fired to spread the news about Feds watching this board ? Also, why this EF mail rumor ? Either Kronk is joking or it aint the same Kronk I knew a year ago. Suddendly, in a matter of hours, the board was invaded by Feds. I asked them (Kronk, Wodin, Citrus, Ranger, Flexed1) an explanation, and none of them took the time to answer my questions. Flexed1 just said and I quote his e mail:

    "I did what was best for me based on what I read and read between. I have never used Elite for illegal ongoings but it appears everything there can be read including your elite mial and pms"

    Wodin:

    "someone could be reading this.... "


    Wow...... on the other hand, George asked me to call him. Who am I suppose to believe ?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by Big Rick Rock on Yesterday 09:47 PM:

    I think George should handle this.... I will give you my take on it however.

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts


    Discussing this in private is exactly why people aren't being trusted. I know I'm wondering why you have to discuss this privately. I'm even more curious now that the post has been deleted.
    There have been tons of "private" conversations being carried on by the "other side"... I don't see the problem with us having at least one.

    George, Kronk told me that his arrangement with you was to make a commission on all orders. In fact, his affiliate account g.o/xxx was set up by you and him back at the first of the year, and that is cookied on his computer, and you encouraged him to take orders and generate a commission.

    You told Xxx, and the public at alrge here at Elite, and I quote:

    A special link had been provided to our support person for use in placing phone orders. Placing the orders through his special link would allow us to calculate and pay a sales commission on your inbound phone orders that were taken by our support rep.

    Why would you tell him that you gave him a link (g.o/xxx, the affiliate link) to place phone orders and receive a commission if he wasn't supposed to?


    I have one of these links too. it was given to me by GS, when I put an order thru this link, I get a 10% comission on the sale, so did Kronk.... The link he was using gave him a 50% comission... thats the difference.

    employee Link, using Elitefitness phone and time = 10% comission
    affiliate site Link that puts up our links and dirves traffic= 50%

    You told him the board was struggling financially, and kronk needed his job desperately, so he told you not to even bother paying him a commission, but you did twice. All orders, whether through CM or Kronk were the same commission amount, so there's no loss there. Seems the only difference here to me is that you think phone orders were 100% Elite's and he thinks that you told him that all orders were his. He has email from you reflecting that arrangement, and also where you emailed him recently and told him that you don't think he did anything wrong. I don't know about the others, but those are some confusing details. It's basically your word against his, only he seems to have some proof, in writing, that he didn't "steal."

    I don't know about content of e mails that were exchanged...
    My earlier respose answered some of the other stuff.

    Also there were only 1 2 phone orders per week, according to Kronk, and his paypal payment log reflects this as well.

    Since we have been doing customer service from the N.Y office, we have been taking about 1 2 phone orders per day. and my employee Link log reflects this as well.

    Ranger says he contacted you via email on several occasions to say that if anything was the least bit unethical, with regard to the billing, that he would promptly fix the problem. He said he never heard back.

    From April to August ALL funds for CM went to Xxx, and you were aware of that, as you helped him set up his affiliation. For the last 4 months, those funds have been going to a corporate account for 'Chemical Muscle" which isn't even Xxx's. You can also see the g.o/chemical log, and these jive with what Xxx said.


    I think GS can answer this one..... the proff is in the pudding. up until last month the payments were going to Kronk, PayPal confirmed this.

    In terms of salary, you hired Xxx by the hour. According to the Fair Labor Standards Act, you are required to pay Xxx for every hour he worked and 1.5 times that rate for overtime. This is federal regulation, and does not qualify as a collective bargaining agreement or commision situation, as you made that possibility null and void the very first time you paid him by the hour. He was hired at $10 and hour for 5 hours a day (originally 3hours) for a total of $1000 a month. He was working about 10 15 hours a day, plus weekend meetings with you via phone/internet. Techincally, he could go retroactive on you for 6 months of actual wages, all of which the EF SAM log can verify the hours on. Many of us can also verify, by the nature of being on the board all the time, that he WAS in fact here helping people what seemed to be AROUND the clock.

    Seems to me that the thousands of dollars you could potentially owe him, should he pursue that, don't even compare to 1 2 phone orders per week, that he only received commission on twice, and believes he placed precisely as you directed.

    From a phone conversation I had with him, it seems like he should not be taking ANY wages from anybody. not while he is on...... Lets just say if it is brought to court it will open a different can of worms

    Also, consultations people paid "George Spellwin" for were done by him, and not you, which he wasn't paid for. I believe you charge around $800 and something for these?

    I helped out with the consultations back in 2000, I got the same deal that Kronk did, plain and simple.

    Also, the process to get rid of him started several months ago, and once he was fired, he was left on as a mod. Why would you do that for a thief? Why would you send that thief an email saying you know he did nothing wrong? It wasn't until kronk retired a week later, and told his friends he was no longer EF Sam, that shit hit the fan. People started leaving, and THAT'S when the drama started. If Kronk wanted to start drama, he could've done it the previous Tuesday when he was fired, but he didn't.

    He did not retire... he was asked to leave.
    and he did start shit plenty of it.

    I know both kronk and Polish VERY well. I can tell you that they don't know eachother very well, rarely talk to eachother, etc...Polish is not upset because of things kronk told him. He's upset for reasons I stated above (which you say are lies).

    Again, please don't chastise me personally for this information. I'm just telling you what I know.

    The truth, I still have no clue about. I probably never will. Again, I'm ok with that.

    __________________________________________________ _____


    I'm out to buy some milk..... more later.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 09:49 PM:

    Kronk has never told me, or anyone I know, that the board is being run by feds. I think there are a lot of rumors circulating and it's easiest to pin them on Kronk.

    He was concerned about EF mail because after he was fired, his password was changed. He also felt that because of the way hushmail is routed, and the fact that he had made administrative changes to Elitemail himself, that it was easily accessed.

    I don't think anything happened over hours. I think you just heard about it over hours. By the time shit hit the fan it had been blowing up for months.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 09:54 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by Big Rick Rock
    From a phone conversation I had with him, it seems like he should not be taking ANY wages from anybody. not while he is on...... Lets just say if it is brought to court it will open a different can of worms
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Are you saying that if he were to file for back wages you would turn him in for AS/AAS use?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 09:57 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts


    Are you saying that if he were to file for back wages you would turn him in for AS/AAS use?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    I think this was uncalled.....

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 10:01 PM:

    Your damn right it was...on his part. I'm hoping I misunderstood Rick. What do you mean by "...not while he is on." I took that to mean that you don't think he should start trouble unless he wants to open another can of worms. I hope I misunderstood you.


    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 10:02 PM:

    BRR, first you guys say that he wasn't supposed to get any commission on phone orders, then you tell kronk it's 50%, then you tell us it's 10%.....these are the little things that are leaving people confused about the truth. His commission has already changed twice in this one thread.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 10:02 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Kronk has never told me, or anyone I know, that the board is being run by feds. I think there are a lot of rumors circulating and it's easiest to pin them on Kronk.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Obviously, we aren't connected on the same channel. Wodin sent me a PM at Setoirodology telling me George was reading my e mails (who cares, I have nothing to hide...lol). The same PM was sent to other members. Also, had the next day, 2 3 members mailing me and asking if what Kronk and Citrus had told them was true...


    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 10:05 PM:

    Kronk did warn people that PMs were being read. Not that anyone really talks about sensitive stuff via PM anyway. It's just a matter of integrity. BRR told kronk he was reading PMs, and supposedly told Polish and c ditty that too.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 10:07 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    Your damn right it was...on his part. I'm hoping I misunderstood Rick. What do you mean by "...not while he is on." I took that to mean that you don't think he should start trouble unless he wants to open another can of worms. I hope I misunderstood you.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    What's wrong with opening a can of worms ? I think it means, some eveidences might showed up in civil court against Kronk/Ranger or whatever. I wouldn't see how telling that "XXXX" is/was taking Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) is relevant nor how would this hurt him...

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 10:09 PM:

    Manny I'm starting to wonder about you. To me this looks like a threat: If he goes after back wages, we're going to go after him for Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use. Are you really so brainwashed that you can't read that sentence critically?

    What If I told you that if you don't paypal $500 dollars to me right now, I'm going to report you to the feds as a source. Let's pretend you live in America, and don't even use AAS. Would you see that as a threat?

    I can't even believe you are getting on MY ass when BRR is the one that made the statement! Again, I hope I misunderstood him. If not, that's blackmail. He has mentioned several times in this thread that he's not a fed ( I have no idea why), and now he's saying that if Kronk start trouble, they'll set him up? That's the kind of crap that makes people wonder....not what Kronk has/hasn't said.


    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 10:10 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    Kronk did warn people that PMs were being read. Not that anyone really talks about sensitive stuff via PM anyway. It's just a matter of integrity. BRR told kronk he was reading PMs, and supposedly told Polish that too.
    __________________________________________________ ____
    Look, I'm gonna make this simple: I asked Kronk what was going on and he never told me shit, except "stay safe". So unless he comes up with something interesting, I can't and won't believe him. Sounds like you have a direct line with him. I don't.
    __________________________________________________ ____
    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 10:14 PM:

    If you were kronk, and you had just been slandered and lied to (his perspective) would you trust anyone?
    __________________________________________________ ____
    Posted by Mr.X on Yesterday 10:17 PM:

    Re: Re: Re: PolishHammer1977

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Originally posted by George Spellwin

    I will call you Monday thanks so much for your support and help.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    If you ask me, this thread is getting out of hand; some PR cleaning needs to be done. Call me monday thanks

    Mr.X
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by Big Rick Rock on Yesterday 10:17 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ ____

    Originally posted by spatts
    Are you saying that if he were to file for back wages you would turn him in for AS/AAS use?
    __________________________________________________ _____
    What????? NO NO NO

    I'm talking about something completely different... I don't want to say it here BUT ... you can't file for back wages when you are not suppose to be working.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 10:19 PM:

    OK, gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up. Although one would be a matter with you, and the other with another entity. It remains that kronk doesn't feel like he did anything wrong, GS told him he didn't do anything wrong, and it seems to be agreed that (smart or not) he did work a lot of unpaid hours.

    You might also be interested to know that kronk was on "Reduced Wages" and reported them as such during the time he was receiving addition funds. All is kosher on his end.


    Mr. X...my how things change.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by manny78 on Yesterday 10:20 PM:

    quote:


    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    If you were kronk, and you had just been slandered and lied to (his perspective) would you trust anyone?
    __________________________________________________ _____
    I wouldn't and don't trust anyone. Maybe Kronk wa sfired with no just cause. Maybe he stole money, maybe BRR is a Fed (big deal I'm one myself), maybe George is Bill Gates (well George's voice sounds like a tech. support guy I knew), maybe EF has found a way to read our e mails.... maybe this and that, but honestly, it has no impact on my life.

    Oh and spatts, since you have some exclusive info, what about Citrus ? Is he just a lone gunman or acting through orders ?
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 10:24 PM:

    I rarely speek with Cditty, and most of my recent communication with kronk has been in regard to his current endeavors. He's trying to focus on the positive and move on. Might be a good idea if we all do that.

    Also, kronk never mentioned the wages thing to me, and I never mentioned it to him. I'm an accountant, and my husband's an attorney. These employment law issues are old hat around here, and something that I thought I would just throw out there while we're talking about "stealing" and being "fair."

    I find it profoundly disturbing that when I suggest that Elite can be sued for back wages, you do not deny this one bit, but instead counter with a threat to open a can of worms if he were to pursue that. It speaks volumes, really.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by velvett on Yesterday 10:24 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by manny78
    what about Citrus ? Is he just a lone gunman or acting through orders ?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    OH Shit.



    That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by Big Rick Rock on Yesterday 10:29 PM:

    I have never read anybody's PMs and I never told anybody that I was reading people's PMs.... That is complete and utter bullshit. I have spoken to C ditty ONCE ... thats it... on the phone, and I can tell you that this was after Black Monday, we talked for about 1 hour about about all the stuff he was saying... Before this I had never spoken to him. He is a goddam liar if he says I told him anything about PMs and shit. Same thing with WODIN and Kronk.

    I spoke to Kronk on the phone maybe 6 7 times the whole time he worked here. We never got personal about much, Our phone conversations were pretty much, cut and to the point. Once on Plat chat we discussed our sexlives briefly( same night he delted my account and pruned my post)... Not much more than that.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 10:47 PM:
    BRR, I'm just telling you what's being said. I only know one side of the story, so of course that's what I'm going to present. Sounds like no one remembers the facts the same way. I come here to share training knowledge, and I have already wasted too much time with this. I was silly for thinking that the only way we could clear up all this drama was to bring about all the facts and find the truth. I can see that it lies somewhere in the middle, and likely won't be found.

    Thanks for listening.
    __________________________________________________ ____
    Posted by Fonz on Yesterday 10:55 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    Kronk did warn people that PMs were being read. Not that anyone really talks about sensitive stuff via PM anyway. It's just a matter of integrity. BRR told kronk he was reading PMs, and supposedly told Polish and c ditty that too.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    That is the biggest bunch of Bologna I have ever read.

    After the day he suposedly left Kronk and crew have been constantly slandering EF and spreading massive amounts of disinformation through OTHER boards on the internet.

    I'll say this just once.

    HE LIED ABOUT EF MAIL ALL OVER THE INTERNET.

    He took advantage of his position as a MOD and VET in order to "scare" people away from EF and do damage control.
    Anybody with an ounce of computer knowledge knew he was blatantly lying.

    So, please tell me.....if he did nothing wrong why the the blatant lying concerning EF MAIL?

    If you(or he) can answer this question I would love to know.

    Fonz
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 11:00 PM:

    I never said he did nothing wrong. I was just presenting what I have taken in on the topic over the weeks. I don't know enough about hushmail to make an educated evaluation, as I mentioned. I really believe that Kronk believes it can be read, as his password was changed when he was fired. I don't think he was trying to lie; I think he really thinks it's insecure.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by velvett on Yesterday 11:03 PM:

    Ya'll are focusing on the wrong person.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 11:04 PM:

    Who do you think we should be focusing on?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by guards on Yesterday 11:05 PM:

    Group hug? Anyone?
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by Big Rick Rock on Yesterday 11:09 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ ____

    Originally posted by guards
    Group hug? Anyone?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    ThanX.... I'm going to ask for one at the C&C board.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by velvett on Yesterday 11:14 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by guards
    Group hug? Anyone?
    __________________________________________________ _____
    I'd like a lap dance.

    And a foot massage.
    __________________________________________________ ____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 11:15 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    Who do you think we should be focusing on?
    __________________________________________________ ____

    Posted by velvett on Yesterday 11:15 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    Who do you think we should be focusing on?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    I've already had one of my thread get back to someone this week so I'm staying Mute.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by velvett on Yesterday 11:17 PM:

    < Was a hint not mockery.


    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 11:22 PM:

    If you are talking about Polish Hammer, I told him that you asked about his interview, and PMd him to see if everything was OK. You don't have to be cryptic, just ask. It's not like I copied it to him. I said that you asked what floor the building was on, I assumed you were talking about him, and called to see if he was ok. Friends do that. Not internet fictitious friends/acquaintances that no one has ever seen or heard from in real life...actual people.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by Big Rick Rock on Yesterday 11:27 PM:

    spatts, I appreciate you being logical and listening to both sides... I think that your phone/personal contact with Kronk affords him an advantage that I could never have, as far as explaining things to you and answering all your questions until your heart is at ease. Maybe one day you will find the time to give us a call and then I promise you can fire away with all the questions you have... I will spend as much time as you want with you on the phone answering all of them.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 11:30 PM:

    Thanks, Rick. Try to have a happy thanksgiving. I know your family is probably more important to you than all of this. I know mine is.

    Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

    [How come they don't have pumpkin flavored Cadburry eggs and a Bunny that says "Gobble Gobble" in the commercial?]

    __________________________________________________ ____

    Posted by velvett on Yesterday 11:31 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    If you are talking about Polish Hammer, I told him that you asked about his interview, and PMd him to see if everything was OK. You don't have to be cryptic, just ask. It's not like I copied it to him. I said that you asked what floor the building was on, I assumed you were talking about him, and called to see if he was ok. Friends do that. Not internet fictitious friends/acquaintances that no one has ever seen or heard from in real life...actual people.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    No I didn't mean Hammer not at all.

    I do find it odd that someone would interview for a company that they claim to detest. And I find it more bizarre that his friend would say his interview was 4 months ago and not just a few days ago.

    But thanks for admitting that you can't be trusted either but the again you've never been my friend except when you need something from me.

    It's I'm a big girl and can read real clear though the lines.
    __________________________________________________ ____


    Posted by Big Rick Rock on Yesterday 11:32 PM:

    spatts, give me your e mail addy, I'll drop you an e mail with my personal # so you can drop me a line at your convenience.
    __________________________________________________ ____


    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 11:33 PM:

    Like the time Kronk and I set you up to prove you were copying my PMs to him? Take off the halo, sweetheart. I've never trusted you.
    __________________________________________________ ____

    Posted by velvett on Yesterday 11:37 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Originally posted by spatts
    Like the time Kronk and I set you up to prove you were copying my PMs to him? Take off the halo, sweetheart. I've never trusted you.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    I don't really remember but I recall feeling sorry for you because you said that people talking behind your back that you were either taking or selling steriods. Something with Citruscide and Starfish it's vague now.


    I was TRYING to be your friend. I thought I was doing something to help you because I thought you were a good person.

    For the record I haven't spoken to Kronk about any of this because I felt he had nothing to prove to me. Nor have I spoken to Ranger or countless others that have asked me for my number to tell their story.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 11:39 PM:

    Why on earth would be upset with me for calling a friend to make sure he's ok? Would you not do the same for one of your friends?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by velvett on Yesterday 11:40 PM:

    quote:


    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    Like the time Kronk and I set you up to prove you were copying my PMs to him? Take off the halo, sweetheart. I've never trusted you.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    LOL The reason you're still friends is because I've never sent him your PM's about him

    TWhy did you ask me 2 3 time to remove your incriminating posts over the past year? Why did you ask me to delete the Chemical Muscle PM in which you asked me to do it?

    You're just another user.

    Don't trip through your halo darlin' your slip is showing.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by velvett on Yesterday 11:43 PM:

    quote:


    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    Why on earth would be upset with me for calling a friend to make sure he's ok? Would you not do the same for one of your friends?
    __________________________________________________ _____

    I didn't mention his name I did so for his privacy.

    I couldn't understand why in the world he would go to the office so I wanted to know if they really were on the 10th floor.

    YOU made the choice to make into something bad not me.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Yesterday 11:58 PM:

    I asked you to remove posts. Not necessarily incriminating ones. In fact, I think I asked you to remove chat board posts because my sister had found the board, and I had talked about some family issues. Most recently I asked you to remove posts about the football team, because I don't think they would appreciate me talking about them on a board that's privy to steroid info. The coaches may not like finding players names around here. I did that to protect both them and myself.

    Try to remember who you're talking to. I don't hide. I have met over 90 people from Elite. I am the exact same person to all of them. I am open about what I have done, do, or may do. You don't need a halo when you're naked.

    I didn't make anything bad. This situation speaks for itself. I called him to see if he was ok. You are the one that just told me I can't be trusted for that.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by velvett on Today 12:03 AM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts

    Try to remember who you're talking to. I don't hide. I have met over 90 people from Elite. I am the exact same person to all of them. I am open about what I have done, do, or may do. You don't need a halo when you're naked.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Are you suggesting that I am different things to different people?

    I have always tried to protect those who I feel are being attacked without reason. I had felt that way about you at one time and I feel that way about EF at this time.

    You have the right to side with your friends they have clearly earned that.

    As I have earned the right to remain on my side of the "line".

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Today 12:04 AM:

    Fair enough. You have a happy holiday.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by velvett on Today 12:06 AM:

    quote:

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    I didn't make anything bad. This situation speaks for itself. I called him to see if he was ok. You are the one that just told me I can't be trusted for that.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Perhaps I didn't make it clear.
    You can't be trusted for taking info off the mod board and giving it or suggest what was to your friends. Hammer already PMed me about "his knowing".
    That said I would go out my way to protect my friend just as you have.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Today 12:08 AM:

    Yes, I know. I have copies of all the PMs you two exchanged.

    Taking info off the mod board? It wasn't like that, and you know it.
    __________________________________________________ ____

    Posted by velvett on Today 12:10 AM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by spatts
    Yes, I know. I have copies of all the PMs you two exchanged.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    And I'm the evil one.

    I hope you have the one from this afternoon.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by Big Rick Rock on Today 12:23 AM:

    ummmm plot thickens.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by velvett on Today 12:31 AM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Originally posted by spatts
    Yes, I know. I have copies of all the PMs you two exchanged.

    Taking info off the mod board? It wasn't like that, and you know it.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Nice add on to your original post.

    I could suggest the converstaions on this very thread to people and have the same effect as just copying and pasting it.

    And since you have my PM's then you should have also have PH's PM and you would know what he suggests that I did or who I am.

    Where in the world would he get a crazy idea like that?

    (Didn't you just say that I am untrutworthy regarding PM's? Isn't that like that saying Calling the Kettle Black? Your friend did the very same thing that you look down upon me for when I thought I was helping you out in a bad situation ironic.)
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by manny78 on Today 07:22 AM:

    A catfight, oh my God !!!

    Now that I think about it: Kronk/EF Sam, Citrus, Supergirl, one of our mods (I think but he's not posting a lot), a bust in NJ,
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by MattTheSkywalker on Today 08:17 AM:

    Velvett,

    check your PM sometime
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by Zyglamail on Today 09:45 AM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by Big Rick Rock
    spatts, I appreciate you being logical and listening to both sides... I think that your phone/personal contact with Kronk affords him an advantage that I could never have, as far as explaining things to you and answering all your questions until your heart is at ease. Maybe one day you will find the time to give us a call and then I promise you can fire away with all the questions you have... I will spend as much time as you want with you on the phone answering all of them.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    I beleive this isthe kind of "private" conversations Spatts was talking about in an earlier post. I guess what I dont understand is if we are all supposed to call up and get the scoop in person, why not save yourself the time and just tell us all right here?

    As Manny said, none of this really effects my life, but it is rather disheartening to see the group torn apart.

    On a side note, I have seen, first hand how dealings in the business world can become convoluted and how two sides can come away from a meeting with totally different perspectives of what happened as well as whats expected.

    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by spatts on Today 11:06 AM:

    Velvett, in regard to your PM on CM that I can't reply to, Kronk is right. He was not involved in the set up, at least not the beginning. I intentionally told you some untruths about him to see if they would get back to him (as he and I both suspected you were sharing info), and they did. At that point, he and I were both involved and agreed to only PM you if we copied it to each other as well (when the PM involved all parties). This was not during the cditty/starfish thing, this was just in April of this year. Also, telling kronk via PM what was said here and then leaving CM because of it, is also revealing mod board info.

    ...there sure are a lot of pots and kettles around here!

    Polish sent his PMs to me unprovoked, so you'll have to take that up with him.

    What concerns me the most is 2 mod board threads to discuss Polish, when that should've been handled with each party OFF the board. As The Shadow eluded "Why not ask him?" None of this even belongs here. Whether or not Vel and I trust each other is of little importance. Sounds like we've both been lied to a little...and BRR has been lied to/about, and George has been lied to/about, etc. What's more disturbing is that the alleged lies regarding kronk have yet to be addressed regarding his professional ethics. This reminds me of when Clinton would start a war to divert attention from the Monica situation. As long as Vel and I keep bantering about shit that means absolutely nothing (other than putting on a good show), we will never get back to the actual topic, and address the legitimate points that remain.

    Zyg, you are correct. I don't wish to discuss this matter with anyone in private. If a person can be accused publicly, you can present the evidence publicly (assuming there is any).

    __________________________________________________ _____


    Posted by Big Rick Rock on Today 04:33 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by Zyglamail
    I beleive this isthe kind of "private" conversations Spatts was talking about in an earlier post. I guess what I dont understand is if we are all supposed to call up and get the scoop in person, why not save yourself the time and just tell us all right here?

    As Manny said, none of this really effects my life, but it is rather disheartening to see the group torn apart.

    On a side note, I have seen, first hand how dealings in the business world can become convoluted and how two sides can come away from a meeting with totally different perspectives of what happened as well as whats expected.
    __________________________________________________ ____
    My intention has never been to discuss anything in PRIVATE with anybody... any of our mods can pick up the phone and call our office at any time to have their questions answered....

    The reason why I asked spatts or anybody to call us is because what would take me 20 paragraphs to write I could just explain in 5 10 minutes over the phone. ALL of you guys have an open invitation to pick up the phone and dial our number( some of you already have)...
    I have nothing to say to spatts that I wouldn't say to any of you, I just feel like it is easier to speak about it over the phone than write it on here and try my best to get the point accross.... This is not an easy situation to explain, and as you can tell I'm not the best writer in the world either. A lot of the time, things that I write are take out of context. It happened on this thread a couple of times already....
    see, now I'm sorry I ever offered spatts to call us....
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Posted by Zyglamail on Yesterday 09:49 PM:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by Big Rick Rock
    My intention has never been to discuss anything in PRIVATE with anybody... any of our mods can pick up the phone and call our office at any time to have their questions answered....
    __________________________________________________ _____

    If your excuse for having people call you is lack of writing skills and typing speed I guess I can buy that. I personally type about as fast as I can talk (hehe and my spelling proves it ) so speed/ease isnt an issue with me. It just seems a bit odd that when questions are asked the answer is often "please call the office", especially if your time is an issue as it appears to be since it only has to be posted here once for us all to see. Some of us may bring things to the group conversation that an individual may overlook. Verbal communication can be open to inturpretation as well as this thread and PH's interview has proven so there is no "safe" way to make sure your point gets across aside from spending the time to clearly and unemotionally state the facts as you know them.

    Once again, dont take this wrong, just stating how things can appear. None of this affects my personal life outside of the fact I dislike the termoil between friends I have made here over the last couple years. Im still here to volunteer my time and help the community where I can.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Today 01:54 PM:

    BRR, I have one more question, if you would oblige. I noticed on your affiliate link that sub affiliates receive only 10% while actual affiliates receive 50%. So was kronk technically a sub afiliate of Elitefitness, and THAT'S why he was only to receive 10%? Cause that would make sense.
    __________________________________________________ ____

    Posted by velvett on Today 02:06 PM:

    quote:

    __________________________________________________ _____
    Originally posted by spatts
    Velvett, in regard to your PM on CM that I can't reply to, Kronk is right. He was not involved in the set up, at least not the beginning. I intentionally told you some untruths about him to see if they would get back to him (as he and I both suspected you were sharing info), and they did. At that point, he and I were both involved and agreed to only PM you if we copied it to each other as well (when the PM involved all parties). This was not during the cditty/starfish thing, this was just in April of this year. Also, telling kronk via PM what was said here and then leaving CM because of it, is also revealing mod board info.

    __________________________________________________ _____
    I don't know what you are referring to the only possible negative thing I have ever included Kronk in is the fact that he was to be EFSam V Kronk knew about my feelings so it was no secret being passed around him. The whole concept of a Moderator playing admin and keeping it secret to fellow mods that he was to work with was the most basic form of manipulation. This of course would not include the select friends that knew all along that Kronk was Sam.

    My opinion of this being a horrible idea was nothing hidden I was rather nasty to Sam when he first came on board because the idea was unethical. I made many posts, argued relentlessly V I think I even drove Fonz insane with the matter. During that time I had many PM conversations with Kronk regarding my disapproval of him being EFSam. Kronk and I came to a common ground regarding the issue and I agreed to drop it and I did.

    Of course I would PM Kronk why shouldn't I? I only told him what you said about me and since you are friends why should it matter that he knows what you said? You chose to implicate him in your attempt at setting me up to look like some sort of backstabber. I at that point had chosen not to associate myself with CM and I had asked both Kronk & Frackal to delete me as a user V I simply offered Kronk the reason why. I wanted you to know about the conversation from me as well that is why I forwarded it directly to you.

    All I see is a business arrangement gone sour and the bottom line is that friends will stick with friends I couldn't blame anyone for doing that, I would do the very same thing.

    You want to complicated matters why does a now ex mod know the inner workings and dollars made by EF and how. How many Plats are and how many Nelson books are being sold? Isn't it unethical to share the finances of the company you work for with a friend to then have that friend post that personal information in an attempt to defame the company of his prior association.

    Bottom line is you want to point fingers and have none pointed back at you or your friends. If you want to judge me, you and your friends will be judged by the same standards you put forth so you might as well get prepared.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    All times are GMT 6 hours. The time now is 02:34 PM.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Posted by spatts on Today 06:35 PM:

    Velvett, are you threatening me for attempting to unveil the truth?

    When someone is trying to find the truth, and another person gets angry and defensive, that sends a red flag. What sends an even bigger red flag is this:

    quote:

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by velvett
    You want to complicated matters why does a now ex mod know the inner workings and dollars made by EF and how. How many Plats are and how many Nelson books are being sold? Isn't it unethical to share the finances of the company you work for with a friend to then have that friend post that personal information in an attempt to defame the company of his prior association.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    No one mentioned :mdollars made by EF and how. How many Plats are and how many Nelson books are being sold.; Where did you get that? It・s not mentioned anywhere else in this thread. I don・t know what EF・s revenues are, how many plats there are, or how many books are being sold. I know what George charges for a consultation because I know people who have requested them. What it sounds like to me is that you are setting up Kronk to look like he violated his nondisclosure agreement, when he in fact did not. He specifically wouldn・t share Elite・s company details with me and cited his NDA as the reason for that. Your effort to falsely accuse him of such shows a clear lack of integrity, and makes me wonder what else you have/would falsely accuse him (or anyone) of. Your insinuations are despicable.


    __________________________________________________ _____


    SPATTS・ FINAL POST

    Posted by spatts on Today 06:35 PM:

    On the Topic of Kronk:

    Since no one seems to want to address the issues regarding Kronk, other than the few questions BRR was able to answer in post #46, I will give you my final take on the events of the last few weeks (or last 10 months, as it were).

    To the best of my knowledge, kronk was fired because he :stole; money from the company by routing phone orders intended for his g.o/xxx affiliate account through his g.o/chemical affiliate account. It was established in this thread that no one can agree on what the % of commission income it is that kronk was to receive from his g.o/xxx account. First, it was 50%, then 0%, then 10%. However, when I look at Kronk・s personal payroll (paypal) recordsa and affiliate account data, and figure the total number of sales paid on, total revenues paid on, total commission paid, etcm, and back out the %, it appears that you were paying him a 50% commission at each account.

    Additionally, unique sales at the CM and Xxx accounts reflect that at least 70% of the CM orders were placed from IPs that are NOT Kronk・s IP, and his IP is static. They are each different, and I refuse to believe that Kronk set up a new proxy for each individual order in an effort to deceive you.

    CM has grossed a whopping $1522.00 in commission so far this ENTIRE year (2003) from its Elite affiliate account, which represents $3044.00 in sales at 50% commission. Now considering that at least 70% of those were absolutely not placed by Kronk, let・s factor that he lied and cheated his way in to 30% of those sales. This would mean that $913.00 of the sales revenue should have been paid at 10%, which is $91.30. That same figure at 50% is $456.50, representing a discrepancy of $365.20 that Kronk would allegedly owe, in a worse case scenario.

    Kronk・s g.o/xxx account received $7.99 on March 7th for sales commission, and $61.56 on April 7th for sales commission, and has received no sales commission payments since then, as you then began paying him through CM, at what appears to be the same rate (50%). CM also received commissions during this time. The g.o/xxx account has not received commissioned income since April (8 months ago), and you just figured this out and fired him for it a couple weeks ago? I find that hard to believe.

    So basically, you・re saying that he potentially stole $365.20, and that・s IF all 30% of those orders through CM were placed directly by kronk (which is not likely).

    Now let・s say that Kronk worked 50 hours a week, for 10 months, at $10/hour (which is a very low estimate); that・s a total of $20,000. You paid him roughly $10,069.55 for that time (hourly base + 2 commission payments). If we take what you underpaid him, and subtract a worse case scenario of $365.20 in allegedly misappropriated sales revenues, that leaves a difference of $9565.25 that you would be legally obligated to pay him, not including damages. Who・s stealing from whom?

    This amount, plus due damages, would more than cover any fines he would face for improper reporting, but as luck would have it, he reported his receipts accurately. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I find it disturbing that your only reply to my comment regarding his back wages was that you・d tattle on him if he started trouble. You didn・t deny it; you didn・t confirm it; rather, you proposed a threat. I・m starting to see a trend.

    The fact that you can・t get your story straight is obvious. What puzzles me is your motive. If Rick is a friend of George・s and was coming back to town, and George wanted to replace Sam and bring the customer service in house, all he had to do was fire Sam. At will employment is great that way, but we all know George dislikes confrontation. So perhaps it was easier to just bring someone on, phase someone else out, and then lie about why you were firing him so you would have a reason. George was involved in phone calls and emails with Kronk confirming that he did nothing wrong, and couldn・t offer an explanation for his actions. Rather than offering no story at all, you chose to lie publicly about why he was fired. That is slander.

    So the two extreme takes on this issue are that, A: You, BRR, are a guy that got in trouble with the law, made a deal, came back, Paul is under duress to give you Sam・s job, and you are starting all these research chemical companies on the board to bait innocent members for arrests. OR, B: George is spineless, and can・t fire someone without fabricating the reasons, which is slander.

    So you・re either an informant or a bastard. While I have no concrete reason to believe the former, I have no doubts about the latter.



    On the Topic of Elite Mail:

    As for the Elite Fitness email, when Kronk went to log in after you fired him, it did not say that the account was no longer active, it said that kronk was using the incorrect password. His account was not internally disabled, but his password was changed. For those of you having trouble putting two and two together, if someone can change your password, they then know your password, and can log in as you, and read your mail. Elite is set up a little differently on the back end, as passwords are changed through hush. Elite owns their mail, not Hush. They pay for the Elite accounts through hush. When a user forgets his/her password, they contact Mike, or whomever, at hush and get the password reset to a generic password that the Elite Administration knows. Then the mail can be read. Kronk knows this because he・s arranged the reset of a few passwords for members that forgot theirs.



    On the Topic of PolishHammer:

    Rick, you said you were going to copy my post to Polish, and I said I would copy it too for accuracy:

    quote:

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Originally posted by Big Rick Rock
    I just can't belive that polish would say that stuff... I'm not questioning you spatts, but if you don't mind I'm going to drop him an e mail quoting you and ask him is he really feels like this is what happened.... I don't think him and I were at the same interview.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    You lied, yet again. You did not copy my post, instead you only copied George・s initial post, and your initial reply, making you look deeply concerned, and not revealing a stitch of information from my post, or your reply. Didn・t want Polish to see you calling him a liar, did you Rick? Here・s a copy of the email you sent him in its entirety:

    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _____

    xxxxx xxxxxxxxx <xxxxxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:21:25 0800 (PST)
    From: xxxxx xxxxxxx
    Subject: ef rick statement
    To: XXXXXXXXXXX@XXXXXXXX.com

    George made a post about this on the Moderator's Forum before I could
    let him know I spoke to you...
    so that you know what was said about the subject, I will cut and paste
    exacly what was said... One of our current Mods is an informatn for
    ChemicalMuscle, anything we post on the Mod forum he runs and tells
    the guys that left.... I'm affraid this person might tell you a
    twisted story about what was discussed on the Mod forum. so I will take the
    initiative and show what George and I posted on the subject. I can't
    show you what all the other Mods posted, just mines and George's post:


    George Spellwin posted(start of thread):
    What's going on here? PolishHammer1977 met with us in our offices in
    New York to interview for the Community Administrator position. He
    Seemed like a nice enough guy and one who might be appropriate for the job.
    BRR called him and told him we were still interviewing, but we liked
    him and would be getting back to him. We were planning to have him back
    for another interview, but then we see that he made a cryptic farewell
    post of the Training Forum, said he would be at Chemical Muscle, and
    said we would be banning him soon. Now he is not returning our calls.
    Do any of you have any idea what this is all about? Is someone still
    spreading BS about us?

    Big Rick Rock posted(9th response to this thread):
    I just got off the phone with polishhammer, he has been working 10hr
    days so he hasn't had any time to call us. He was on his break now so
    he dropped me a line. He basically said that some people approached
    him(wouldn't give me any names) and told him "there are some fucked up things going
    on at elite" and "there will be something real big going down, and you
    will go down too" even though polishhammer doesn't even used AS. What
    happened with him was basically the same thing that happened with
    everybody else....
    They were fed a bunch of random lies, (nothing concrete because the
    Story changes every couple of days) and rather than stick around to figure
    out what is what, he just decided to leave. I・m a little bit upset
    about all of this since I have always liked polishhammer, and even consider
    him a friend in a sort of way. He is a good guy and he was just
    influenced by some of the :BIGGER THAN LIFE; internet personas that are out to get
    us.
    I・ll just chalk this one up to experience, he is a good level headed
    bro, I shared a lot of personal info with him.... I would have never
    expect him to buy into the bullshit without hearing our side first.....
    Goes to show you how good people(REAL LIFE good people) can be deeply
    influenced and manipulated, by a guy who spends 10hrs a day indoors,
    in front of a PC, making a name for himself. Kinda sucks.

    that is what was posted, I give you my word on this.

    Take care bro.

    __________________________________________________ _____
    If you would like a .jpg screen shot of the email, it is available.

    I spoke to Polish on the phone for almost 2 hours today; I have a .wav file of that phone conversation for further evidence of Rick・s lies.


    POLISH RECEIVED NO OTHER MAIL FROM RICK.

    On the Topic of the Administration and its Representatives:

    I have given you ample opportunity to accurately present your side. You have failed.
    So what? This is just the internet, right? Wrong. I care about these people. I could stay here, moderate training and women・s (the only boards that matter to me), and keep my nose out of all this, but you know what? I function as a representative for you; for your values, your conduct, and your goals. Unfortunately, I don・t respect you, your values, your conduct, or your goals. By staying, I show approval for your lack of honesty and integrity. By leaving, I make a statement that I will not stay to watch you continue to hurt members through your lies and deceit. I put a lot of time and effort in to Elite over the last few years, but I no longer wish to be associated with you. You don・t deserve my presence in your community any longer.

    :A family makes a home, not a house.; I have my family with me.

    I retire.

    __________________________________________________ _____


    All times are GMT 6 hours. The time now is 06:36 PM.

  2. #2
    TopSecret
    Guest
    are you a mole? I saw your other post and it was also like this.

    you work for EL or something?!

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