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  1. #1
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    Are Recommendations of 1000mg Per Week of Testosterone Excessive?
    I don't know who wrote this. I found it on meso and I agree, so thought I would post it. I see a lot of advice for someone to lower their dose, when their dose makes a lot of sense to me.

    When someone suggests starting at 250 mgs. of test, I cringe. I firmly believe that 500 mgs. is a reasonable and prudent starting dose. I also see no compelling reason not to toss in 300 mgs. of deca or eq. as well. And yes, I'm talking about a first cycle (for someone who has trained enough that cycling makes sense).

    That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

    Personally, I need to use substantially heavier doses to make decent gains. That's just life for some people.


    "It is my view that the farther one is from one’s natural, untrained state, the harder it is to gain more muscle. There comes a point where the body essentially finds a new balance and may remain at the same muscular weight (give or take a pound or two) for a year or more, even with excellent training, if hormonal conditions remain the same.

    Under different hormonal conditions – for example, more testosterone – growth can resume and a new balance point, if reached, will be at a considerably higher muscular weight. At that point, even if one were to stay on that dose of drug continually, little gains would be seen. But with higher yet levels of testosterone, rapid growth could again resume.

    So a person who has already made a lot of gains is probably not going to see much, if anything, from 200 mg/week testosterone. And if he used steroids to get there, and is already more muscular than he’d be as a natural trainer, he may see nothing at all, just maintenance.

    A true beginner, on the other hand, can make plenty of gains with natural levels of testosterone.

    From the medical standpoint, 600 mg/week has been shown to be quite safe. Furthermore, in double blind studies and so forth, doses of less than 300 mg/week generally have resulted in nothing. These studies have usually been with athletes training the same during the cycle as they were beforehand. They’re generally useless for our purposes but they do make a point here. If the dose is 300 mg/week and an athlete trains and eats the same as before, no miracle results.

    Yes, I know I’ll come under criticism: you or your buddy did great on 250 mg/week. But in every case I have ever seen, such trainers were guys who were not that dedicated to lifting until they went on their cycle. They weren’t in their peak condition at the start of the cycle, and so they had some muscle memory to help them. Or they were fairly novice lifters. They trained and ate better than they ever did before. They probably would have regained 10 lb. of muscle and gained a new 10 lb. just on Placebobolan, thanks to the training, nutrition, intensity, and muscle memory. Those who ate enough to get fat will also attribute some of the fat weight as being muscle weight.

    Now there is one regard where a low dose can be quite effective. This is in fat loss. Many people, especially natural endomorphs, can enjoy easy fat loss for the first time in their lives on quite moderate doses such as 250 mg/week.

    I would say that 500 mg/week is a reasonable minimum for muscle gains, except for an advanced trainer, who may need a gram a week to make much further gains. To advance to today’s pro BB status, even if one has the genetics, requires more yet, not just in quantity but in supplementary drugs such as GH and insulin, which I will not be discussing."

  2. #2
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    id say min. 500 mgs / week for a 1st timer, mAximum, 600 mg

  3. #3
    Rj*
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    but yeah, 200-300 mg would be kinda a waste. i know many disagree,

  4. #4
    Community Veteran Mudge's Avatar
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    I'm about to give 875mg a 'shot' with this upcoming cycle. I just dont like people taking this stuff to extremes, and doing thier first cycle with a gram, because they think it will take them straight to the top from thier current 155 pounds...
    He who overcomes others has force; He who overcomes himself is strong. Lao-tzu

  5. #5
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    I agree on 500mg being the minimum, I also agree on Trevdog when he say that he dont see any problem with stacking two compounds for the first cycle...I know alot of bros think that its the best since it is easier to identify the type of juice giving you a bad side-effect and to find out how you respond to the basic testosterone..but seriously a dose of 400mg Equipose which is a testosterone deriv isnt any problem to stack with 500mg test..besides today we basicly know what side-effects to expect\ that can occur with the different roids so its not that hard to recognize the juice giving you these side effects

    just my two cent

  6. #6
    Novice scotty2's Avatar
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    I've asked this in the past. If 500-600mg test is a good first cycle, assuming test alone is being administered, what would a good second cycle be, bearing in mind it's still test alone?

  7. #7
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    I firmly believe in 500mg of test a week for beginners.. For the intermediates I would say 750 mg of test a week.. I am a firm believer in less is best..

  8. #8
    Community Veteran Mudge's Avatar
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    Originally posted by scotty2
    what would a good second cycle be
    JMO, test + dbol, or test + fina, or all 3 - again my opinion.
    He who overcomes others has force; He who overcomes himself is strong. Lao-tzu

  9. #9
    Novice Perv's Avatar
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    I'm gaining unbelievably well on my first cycle of 600mg test (threw in some Dbol and EQ for good measure cos I wan't convinced that I would get the gains I wanted from test alone). The Dbol blew me up but the test is what's packing on the muscle.

    Now everybody is different of course, but if I do another cycle I will probably just run 600mg test alone and I'd keep using this dose until my cycle gains diminished.

    I have learn't that as a first timer you simply do not need anything but test!

  10. #10
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    I would think that anyone could grow if they were getting more test then what their body produces. This is why I dont think its safe to say that the minimum needs to be 'X' or 'Y'.

  11. #11
    Junior Bodybuilder twoman2000's Avatar
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    I'm doing 1000mg o test a week for my fourth cycle and it feels great, going twice a day to the gym with excellent results. My fist cycle was 500 of test and 400 mg of deca and i gained 25 pounds in10 weeks. 500 is good for first cycle, but then you need more test to make the extra gains, depends on what you combine it with too. My 1000mg of test is cutting fat up and maintaing current weight wih some increase in stength, but mostly for cutting up.!

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by bigdelt69
    I would think that anyone could grow if they were getting more test then what their body produces.
    That's true, but personally I'm not just looking to increase my gains by a smidgen, I want to multiply them by a factor of 5. So I don't just want more than what my body produces, I want several times more than my body produces. Again, that's just my view.

  13. #13
    pro powerlifter slobberknocker's Avatar
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    I don't believe in making blanket statements like "Every first cycle should be 2x + 4y, no matter what."
    Everyone is coming from different stages of physical development, for one thing. And for another, everyone has different goals.

    If somebody actually trained for several years like they're supposed to, then I don't see how 250 mgs/wk is going to do a whole lot for them. And if that same person wants to one day be a professional athlete, then I think they'd be much better off with a higher dose.

    That's my view on this subject.

  14. #14
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    i just don't think deca should be thrown in for a first cycle because it causes prog. Gyno and if you get gyno you don't know what caused it...and how to treat it...if you do test EQ for fist cycle, then next cycle you do test deca, and you only get gyno from the second one, chances are it was the deca...but im hoping not to go over 500mg of test until my 3rd or 4th cycle...we'll see

  15. #15
    Pro Bodybuilder E-Swift25's Avatar
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    Limiting a first cycle to one compound is good so you know what steroid caused whatever side effects. It's a good point to say that if you're gaining like cazy on 250mg a week, you probably haven't trained that hard up to this point.

  16. #16
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    Blood Testing, Blood Testing, Blood Testing. If you do 1,000mg a week and can show me normal a lipid profile (cholesterol, triglycerides), normal cbc, and normal comprehensive ********* panel (kidney, liver function), then ,by all means do a 1,000mg weekly. If you can't then lower your weekly dosage to a point where you readings are normal. What is the point of the outside looking healthy and the inside looking like crap!

  17. #17
    Pro Bodybuilder E-Swift25's Avatar
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    Very good point.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by DrJMW
    Blood Testing, Blood Testing, Blood Testing. If you do 1,000mg a week and can show me normal a lipid profile (cholesterol, triglycerides), normal cbc, and normal comprehensive ********* panel (kidney, liver function), then ,by all means do a 1,000mg weekly. If you can't then lower your weekly dosage to a point where you readings are normal. What is the point of the outside looking healthy and the inside looking like crap!

    I see what you mean doc, but isn't it true that even a cycle with 500 mgs. of test only is likely to elevate your lipids above "normal", especially if you use arimidex with it?

    I don't know what injectables by themselves do to liver values, but I suspect that doses of dbol or winstrol high enough to result in growth are also going to elevate liver values above normal levels. Is it not true that merely doing intense exercise without steroids may elevate liver values?

    And if you have elevated liver values, does that necessarily indicate that the liver is being damaged, or does it merely indicate that the liver is doing its job?

    The corollary of your question is "What is the point of taking steroids if you can't take enough to look healthy on the outside?"

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