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  1. #1
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    Anavar or Winstrol
    Im trying to get as much info as possible on these two steroids to see which one could help me cut as much possible. I found these tablet bottles on a website but not sure whats good and whats not, are you guys able to point me towards the right as far as getting the best gear goes? Thanks

  2. #2
    Moderator juced_porkchop's Avatar
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    cuttign is DIET not drugs . and oral only cycles are genrally not good idea.
    I rec TEST with any cycle even if its a small amount.
    but if I needed to pick one Anavar (var) 100% but its pricy and 50-70mg ed for 8 weeks for decent resalts DEPENDING ON DIET.
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    Test would have to be cleaned out after the cycle to prevent estrogen? What do you recommend for that and what Test would you recommend? You say orals are no good? I cant really find any where online Anavar (var) 100%, is that the name? Thanks for your advise.
    Last edited by Yomny; 04-06-2010 at 09:44 AM.

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    Dont get it, every where i read everyone says something completely different to someone else. I've been reading winstrol alone isn't the way to go it doesn't do much and you have to take around 50mg a day, is this true? Is it ok to take tablets or is it best to use the "pin" or injections? Some recommend to use it with test?

  5. #5
    Amateur Bodybuilder surfdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomny View Post
    Test would have to be cleaned out after the cycle to prevent estrogen? What do you recommend for that and what Test would you recommend? You say orals are no good? I cant really find any where online Anavar (var) 100%, is that the name? Thanks for your advise.
    ana Anavar (var) is the name, I've never done it. But I'm gonna take whin and try it so I have the experience of taking it. Then I might try Anavar (var) in a later cycle, so I can compare the two.

    and you will here dif opinions on compounds, not everyone will get the same results from them. It's more of what works for you, and the only way to know is to find out. I know alot of people on this site say Anavar (var) is better
    Last edited by surfdog; 04-06-2010 at 03:04 PM.

  6. #6
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    you need ALTO more reserarch before us use ANYTHING, months of it.
    here is some info:

    Testosterone enanthate

    Quick overview:
    Active Life: 15-16 days
    Drug Class: Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (for injection)
    Average Dose: Men 250-1000 mg/week
    Acne: Yes
    Water Retention: Yes, high
    High Blood Pressure: Yes
    Liver Toxic: Low, except in mega dosages
    Aromatization:Yes, high
    DHT Conversion: Yes, high
    Decrease HPTA function: Yes, severe

    Testosterone enanthate is an oil based injectable steroid, designed to slowly release testosterone from the injection site (depot). Once administered, serum concentrations of this hormone will rise for several days, and remain markedly elevated for approximately two weeks. It may actually take three weeks for the action of this drug to fully diminish. For medical purposes this is the most widely prescribed testosterone, used regularly to treat cases of hypogonadism and other disorders related to androgen deficiency. Since patients generally do not selfadminister such injections, a long acting steroid like this is a very welcome item. Therapy is clearly more comfortable in comparison to an ester like propionate, which requires a much more frequent dosage schedule.

    Testosterone is a powerful hormone with notably prominent side effects. Much of which stem from the fact that testosterone exhibits a high tendency to convert into estrogen. Related side effects may therefore become a problem during a cycle. For starters, water retention can become quite noticeable. This can produce a clear loss of muscle definition, as subcutaneous fluids begin to build. The storage of excess body fat may further reduce the visibility of muscle features, another common problem with aromatizing steroids. The excess estrogen level during/after your cycle also has the potential to lead up to gynecomastia. Adding an ancillary drug like Nolvadex and/or Proviron is therefore advisable to those with a known sensitivity to this side effect. The anti-aromatase Arimidex, Femara, or Aromasin are a much better choices though. It is believed that the use of an anti-estrogen can slightly lower the anabolic effect of most androgen cycles (estrogen and water weight are often thought to facilitate strength and muscle gain), so one might want to see if such drugs are actually necessary before committing to use. A little puffiness under the nipple is a sign that gynecomastia is developing. If this is left to further develop into pronounced swelling, soreness and the growth of small lumps under the nipples, some form of action should be taken immediately to treat it (obviously quitting the drug or adding ancillaries like Nolvadex).

    Being a testosterone product, all the standard androgenic side effects are also to be expected. Oily skin, acne, aggressiveness, facial/body hair growth and male pattern baldness are all possible. Older or more sensitive individuals might therefore choose to avoid testosterone products, and look toward milder anabolics like DecaDurabolin or Equipoise which produce fewer side effects. Others may opt to add the drug Proscar/Propecia, which will minimize the conversion of testosterone into DHT (dihydrotestosterone). With blood levels of this metabolite notably reduced, the impact of related side effects should also be reduced. With strong bulking drugs however, the user will generally expect to incur strong side effects and will often just tolerate them. Most athletes really do not find the testosterones all that uncomfortable (especially in the face of the end result), as can be seen with the great popularity of such compounds.

    Although this particular ester is active for a much longer duration, most prefer to inject it on a weekly or bi-weekly basis in order to keep blood levels stable. The usual dosage would be in the range of 250mg-750mg a week. This level is quite sufficient, and should provide the user a rapid gain of strength and body weight. Above this level estrogenic side effects will no doubt become much more pronounced, possibly outweighing any new muscle gained. Those looking for greater bulk would be better served by adding an oral like Anadrol or Dianabol, combinations which prove to work great. If one wishes to use a testosterone yet retain a level of quality and definition to the physique, an injectable anabolic like DecaDurabolin or Equipoise may prove to be a better choice. Here we can use a lower dosage of enanthate, so as to gain an acceptable amount of muscle but keep the buildup of estrogen to a minimum.

    With the proper administration of ancillary drugs, Nolva/Clomid and HCG, during post cycle recovery, much of the new muscle mass can be retained for a long time after the cycle has been stopped.
    ----------------------------------------------
    Anavar ® (oxandrolone)


    Quick overview:


    Active Life: 8-12 hours
    Drug Class: Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (Oral)
    Average Dose: Men 20-50 mg/day......Women 5-15 mg/day
    Acne: Only in higher doses
    Water Retention: Rare
    High Blood Pressure: Rare
    Liver Toxic: Yes, c17-alfa-alkylated steroid. Due to low doses, toxicity is low to medium
    Aromatization: None
    DHT Conversion: Low
    Decrease HPTA function: Dose depandant

    Anavar was the old U.S. brand name for the oral steroid oxandrolone, first produced in 1964 by the drug manufacturer Searle. It was designed as an extremely mild anabolic, one that could even be safely used as a growth stimulant in children. One immediately thinks of the standard worry, "steroids will stunt growth". But it is actually the excess estrogen produced by most steroids that is the culprit, just as it is the reason why women stop growing sooner and have a shorter average stature than men. Oxandrolone will not aromatize, and therefore the anabolic effect of the compound can actually promote linear growth. Women usually tolerate this drug well at low doses, and at one time it was prescribed for the treatment of osteoporosis. As the opinions surrounding steroids began to change in the 1980's, prescriptions for oxandrolone began to drop. Lagging sales probably led Searle to discontinue manufacture in 1989, and it had vanished from U.S. pharmacies until recently. Oxandrolone tablets are again available inside the U.S. by BTG, bearing the new brand name Oxandrin. BTG purchased rights to the drug from Searle and it is now manufactured for the new purpose of treating HIV/AIDS related wasting syndrome.

    Anavar is a mild anabolic with low androgenic activity. Its reduced androgenic activity is due to the fact that it is a derivative of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Although one might think that this would make it a more androgenic steroid, it in fact creates a steroid that is less androgenic because it is already "5-alpha reduced". In other words, it lacks the capacity to interact with the 5-alpha reductase enzyme and convert to a more potent "dihydro° form. It is a simple matter of where a steroid is capable of being potentiated in the body, and with oxandrolone we do not have the same potential as testosterone, which is several times more active in androgen responsive tissues compared to muscle tissue due to its conversion to DHT. It essence oxandrolone has a balanced level of potency in both muscle and androgenic target tissues such as the scalp, skin and prostate. This is a similar situation as is noted with Primobolan and Winstrol, which are also derived from dihydrotestosterone yet not known to be very androgenic substances.

    This steroid works well for the promotion of strength and duality muscle mass gains, although it's mild nature makes it less than ideal for bulking purposes. Among bodybuilders it is most commonly used during cutting phases of training when water retention is a concern. The standard dosage for men is in the range of 20-50mg per day, a level that should produce noticeable results. It can be further combined with anabolics like Primobolan and Winstrol to elicit a harder, more defined look without added water retention. Such combinations are very popular and can dramatically enhance the show physique. One can also add strong non-aromatizing androgens like Halotestin, Proviron or trenbolone. In this case the androgen really helps to harden up the muscles, while at the same time making conditions more favorable for fat reduction. Some athletes do choose to incorporate oxandrolone into bulking stacks, but usually with standard bulking drugs like testosterone or Dianabol. The usual goal in this instance is an additional gain of strength, as well as more quality look to the androgen bulk. Women who fear the masculinizing effects of many steroids would be quite comfortable using this drug, as this is very rarely seen with low doses. Here a daily dosage of 5mg should illicit considerable growth without the noticeable androgenic side effects of other drugs. Eager females may wish to addition mild anabolics like Winstrol, Primobolan or Durabolin. When combined with such anabolics, the user should notice faster, more pronounced muscle-building effects, but may also increase the likelihood of androgenic buildup.

    Studies using low dosages of this compound note minimal interferences with natural testosterone production. Likewise when it is used alone in small amounts there is typically no need for ancillary drugs like Clomid/Nolvadex or HCG. This has a lot to do with the fact that it does not convert to estrogen, which we know has an extremely profound effect on endogenous hormone production. Without estrogen to trigger negative feedback, we seem to note a higher threshold before inhibition is noted. But at higher dosages of course, a suppression of natural testosterone levels will still occur with this drug as with any anabolic/androgenic steroid and therefore require post cycle therapy to restore the HPTA.

    Anavar is also a 17alpha alkylated oral steroid, carrying an alteration that will put stress on the liver. It is important to point out however that dispite this alteration oxandrolone is generally very well tolerated. While liver enzyme tests will occasionally show elevated values, actual damage due to this steroid is not usually a problem. Bio-Technology General states that oxandrolone is not as extensively metabolized by the liver as other l7aa orals are; evidenced by the fact that nearly a third of the compound is still intact when excreted in the urine. This may have to do with the understood milder nature of this agent (compared to other l7aa orals) in terms of hepatotoxicity. One study comparing the effects of oxandrolone to other agents including as methyltestosterone, norethandrolone, fluoxymesterone and methAndriol clearly supports this notion. Here it was demonstrated that oxandrolone causes the lowest sulfobromophthalein (BSP; a marker of liver stress) retention among all the alkylated orals tested. 20mg of oxandrolone in fact produced 72% less BSP retention than an equal dosage of fluoxyrnesterone, which is a considerable difference being that they possess the same liver-toxic alteration. With such findings, combined with the fact that athletes rarely report trouble with this drug, most feel comfortable believing it to be much safer to use during longer cycles than most of other orals with this distinction. Although this may very well be true, the chance of liver damage still cannot be excluded, especially with hogher dosages.

    At one time oxandrolone was also looked at as a possible drug for those suffering from disorders of high cholesterol or triglycerides. Early studies showed it to be capable of lowering total cholesterol and triglyceride values in certain types of hyperlipidemic patients, which initially this was thought to signify potential for this drug as a hypo-lipid (lipid lowering) agent. With further investigation we find however that while use of this drug can be linked to a lowering of total cholesterol values, it is such that a redistribution in the ratio of good (HDL) to bad (LDL) cholesterol occurs, usually moving values in an unfavorable direction. This would of course negate any positive effect that the drug might have on triglycerides or total cholesterol, and in fact make it a danger in terms of cardiac risk when taken for prolonged periods of time. Today we understand that as a group anabolic/androgenic steroids produce very unfavorable changes in lipid profiles, and are really not useful in disorders of lipid metabolism. As an oral c17 alpha alkylated steroid, oxandrolone is probably even more risky to use than an injectable esterified injectable such as a testosterone or nandrolone in this regard.
    ----------------------------------------------------

    Arimidex® (anastrozole)


    Quick overview:
    Active Life: 48 hours
    Drug Class: Aromatase inhibitor (Oral)
    Average Dose: 0.25 - 1.0 mg/day
    Acne: Yes
    Water Retention: No
    High Blood Pressure: May reduce bp when using aromatizable steroids
    Liver Toxic: Yes
    Decrease HPTA function: No

    Arimidex® (generic name is anastrozole) is a newer drug developed for the treatment of advanced breast cancer in women. It is manufactured by Zenica Pharmaceuticals and was approved for use in the United States at the end of December 1995. Specifically, Arimidex is the first in a new class of third-generation selective oral aromatase inhibitors.. It acts by blocking the enzyme aromatase, subsequently blocking the production of estrogen. Since many forms of breast cancer cells are stimulated by estrogen, it is hoped that by reducing amounts of estrogen in the body the progression of such a disease can be halted. This is the basic premise behind Nolvadex, except this drug blocks the action and not production of estrogen. The effects of Arimidex can be quite dramatic to say the least. A daily dose of one tablet (1 mg) can produce estrogen suppression greater than 80 % in treated patients. With the powerful effect this drug has on hormone levels, it is only to be used (clinically) by post-menopausal women whose disease has progressed following treatment with Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate). Side effects like hot flushes and hair thinning can be present, and would no doubt be much more severe in pre-menopausal patients.

    For the steroid using male athlete, Arimidex shows great potential. Up to this point, drugs like Nolvadex and Proviron have been our weapons against excess estrogen. These drugs, especially in combination, do prove quite effective. But Arimidex appears able to do the job much more efficiently, and with less hassle. A single tablet daily (1 mg), the same dose use clinically, seems to be all one needs for an exceptional effect (some even report excellent results with only 0.25 mg daily). When used with strong, readily aromatizing androgens such as Dianabol or testosterone, gynecomastia and water retention can be effectively blocked. In combination with Propecia (finasteride), we have a great advance. With the one drug halting estrogen conversion and the other blocking 5-alpha reduction , related side effects can be effectively minimized. Here the strong androgen testosterone could theoretically provide incredible muscular growth, while at the same time being as tolerable as nandrolone. Additionally the quality of the muscle should be greater, the athlete appearing harder and much more defined without holding excess water.

    There are some concerns with using an aromatase inhibitor such as this during prolonged steroid treatment however. While it will effectively reduce estrogenic side effects, it will also block the beneficial properties of estrogen from becoming apparent (namely its effect on cholesterol values). Studies have clearly shown that when an aromatase inhibitor is used in conjunction with a steroid such as testosterone, suppression of HDL (good) cholesterol becomes much more pronounced. Apparently estrogen plays a role in minimizing the negative impact of steroid use. Since the estrogen receptor antagonist Nolvadex is shown not to display an anti-estrogenic effect on cholesterol values, it is certainly the preferred from of estrogen maintenance for those concerned with cardiovascular health.

    Arimidex has another principle drawback, namely the great price of this drug. Tablets can easily sell for $10 each, becoming quite costly with regular use. Clearly the price of an ancillary drug can be much greater than the steroids themselves, a situation destined not to be popular with recreational bodybuilders. Competitors on the other hand are likely to welcome this item. It can ward off the side effects of strong androgen therapy much better than Nolvadex and/or Proviron, making heavy cycles much more comfortable. As the number of countries manufacturing this drug increases, we may be able to look forward to a reduction in price. Privately compounded versions of "liquid Arimidex" have also been formulated "for research purposes" are also available. Generic tabs are also available and these two forms represent a very cost-effective alternative for buying the brand name drug.
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

  7. #7
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    I really appreciate your time taken to provide me with all that info.. seems like anavar with winstrol or primobolan are a good combination. Thanks...

    Surdgog post back later on with some observations on your cycle... i may combine winstrol with the anavar as suggested on that article juced provided.

  8. #8
    Junior Bodybuilder swellonemm's Avatar
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    NOOOO, dude no one knows any of your cycle experience, age , weight, years training??? ANY advice needs to be give on this basis the a guideline to this shit bro just dont putting sgit into your body let me hook you up with a strong cycle. this is all wrong. give me these things i asked for.
    Last edited by swellonemm; 05-05-2010 at 08:37 PM.

  9. #9
    Junior Bodybuilder swellonemm's Avatar
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    o yea judge your body fat also. that will give me an idea on Winstrol (winny) or var.

  10. #10
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    Well by BF i would say right now its at around 17 %. I dont have experience with any cycles before this would be my first, im 26 years old and i've been trainiing ever since i was 16, so i have a pretty good understanding of how to exercise, injury prevention but not too much on the supplements or cycles as most of my workouts in the teen years consisted of a few reps and i was ripped. I'm 5'10 and currently at 190 lbs. I got back to lifting about a month ago and have been taking some protein and creatine to help out. How many grams of protein should i be taking for my weight? I wanted to cut down the fat primarily and i've been told and have read that anavar or winstrol, at the moment i only have access to some that they sell online, its tough to find the liquid form around town, also i didn't want anything that aromatizes since like i said its tough to find any nolvadex or those post cycle cleaners. I really appreciate your guidance guys..
    Last edited by Yomny; 04-06-2010 at 04:24 PM.

  11. #11
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    k guys i need some help here, i see its recommended to go with either anavar or winstrol and add primobolan for best results is this correct? Winstrol and primobolan should be takin in 1cc's every other day? both injected on the same day? mixed or seperate? What is taking with anavar tablets which i heard the dosage should be 50mgs or so per day? I would really appreciate any advice you guys could share as its pretty hard to come about some help online. Thanks
    Last edited by Yomny; 04-06-2010 at 11:12 PM.

  12. #12
    Anabolic Ninja crackfox's Avatar
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    Just take a test , diet and then close cycle with anavar or Winstrol (winny) if u want .. Simmmple

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    Dude, you need to do a lot more research before you start putting AAS into your body, sounds like you have no idea at the moment.

    however in saying that you are going to do a cycle anyway so my 2cents would be this-

    WEEK 1-10 Test Enanthate 400-500mg PW ( Split into 2 pins PW )
    WEEK 4-10 Ana Anavar (var) 60mg ED
    WEEK 1-10 0.25 Arimidex EOD ( Personal Preference )
    WEEK 12-14 Nolva 40mg ED
    WEEK 14-16 Nolva 20mg ED

    - I would recommend a Test only cycle first but if you are hell bent on adding Anavar (var) then this cycle would give you good results providing your diet is ok. Remember that diet is the key, not gear.

    ***do not do Anavar (var) and Whinny at the same time, it will fry your liver IMO


    Also speak to 3J in the diet section and he will help you design a cutting diet.

  14. #14
    Moderator juced_porkchop's Avatar
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    Test for first cycle! liek we all said.
    I knwo there are DRUG PROFILES but take cycle advice from real world people that kave tryed and doen it and what the grenral accepted idea is to be safe , NOT off drug profile.
    TEST IS YOUR FIRST CYCLE have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand like anastrozole incase estrogen is an issue ( it might not be for you)
    so test and MAYBE Anavar (var) .

    wk1-12 500mg testE every week
    wk6-13 Anavar (var) 40mg every day
    wk13-16 PCT! nolvadex 20-30mg every day for 3-4 weeks

    this would be mild
    even go with 250gmg testE ew if you feel you must.
    but what your thinking isnot the best idea .
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

  15. #15
    gooner04
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    Anavar all the way if you dont mind the price, Winstrol (winny) is a killer on the hairline but yea defo stack it with test

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    I got the idea more less guys i really appreciate your help, and yeah it seems as if im not ready as of now financial wise or educationally to get into this.. consider one hundred tablets of anavar are like three hundred dollars plus the the arimidix (this are taken in 1mg doses daily right) would be like another one hundred and fifty plus the test would be another two hundred or so. Question, what Test would you recommend, test propiate or test cypionate or something else? Thanks

    PS- I was looking around for a steroid that doesnt aromatize or convert to estrogen as much or at all, i read that primobolan is good in that case? The dosage should be of 400mg, is this a week? which is something like 8cc? The bottle says the dosage should be 100mg. Im just trying to learn how to read this information. Thanks for your assistance.
    Last edited by Yomny; 04-07-2010 at 12:12 PM.

  17. #17
    Moderator juced_porkchop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomny View Post
    I got the idea more less guys i really appreciate your help, and yeah it seems as if im not ready as of now financial wise or educationally to get into this.. consider one hundred tablets of anavar are like three hundred dollars plus the the arimidix (this are taken in 1mg doses daily right) would be like another one hundred and fifty plus the test would be another two hundred or so. Question, what Test would you recommend, test propiate or test cypionate or something else? Thanks

    PS- I was looking around for a steroid that doesnt aromatize or convert to estrogen as much or at all, i read that primobolan is good in that case? The dosage should be of 400mg, is this a week? which is something like 8cc? The bottle says the dosage should be 100mg. Im just trying to learn how to read this information. Thanks for your assistance.
    test cyp or eth is good. dotn do prop for first cycle you will need to inject it every day to every other day , with test cyp 1-2 times a week id enuff.

    also you WANT SOME estrogen its needed for immune system function and ALOT of other things.
    to avoid it for a whoel cycle is nto good . that why we say testosteron AND an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) so that you can control estrogen IF it is even an issue (not eveyone is the same) and still be healthy PLUSE get better gains.

    keep readign and good luck
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

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    so test c would be better and then do a clomid therapy after a couple of weeks of rest? Should i use a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like arimidix during the cycle at all times or should i start it after two weeks or not at all and just do the post cycle therapy (pct)? thanks

  19. #19
    Moderator juced_porkchop's Avatar
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    PCT (clomid) should start 1-2 week AFTER LAST SHOT of test cyp and go on for 3-4 weeks then stay off steroids for a few months and repeat (if thats what you want)
    for Aromatase inhibitor (AI) some say just have it on hand and if you feel your gettign to bloated or nipples gettign ichy THEN to start it , as using ti MIGHT cut down on soem gains you could have made.
    I say keep it on hand but you could start it at week 2 and go untill you stert PCT (clomid) but make sure you stopp the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) when your sterting thwe clomid.
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

  20. #20
    Cardio is the Key
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    I like this thread, good read.

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    Check this one out
    Towards the bottom.. great links with all the info necessary to get a good feel and understanding. I wanted to thank all of you for the patience and support..

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    Thanks.. i had a feeling but wasn't really sure.
    Last edited by Yomny; 04-08-2010 at 03:36 PM.

  23. #23
    Moderator juced_porkchop's Avatar
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    you cant ask things like that here, you will be banned off the site.
    read the forum rules my friend.

    EDIT YOUR Last POST
    Follow me on Twitter for advanced in-depth peptide, supplement and AAS knowledge, along with all things bodybuilding! Follow me-> @Juced_porkchop

  24. #24
    Senior Moderator Teutonic's Avatar
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    Test e or c for 12 weeks at 500 split into two shots..250 on Mon. and Thursday.
    Simple effective...relatively safe and if you have side effects you ll know why and how to combat them..your waaay to clueless to venture any further..you don t read rule s, your lucky your still here...
    Keep an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand..
    PCT in hand before you start bro...
    Age 50
    5 11

    wight 210
    Fall cycleTRT-250 test c psl
    Tren prop 50/50 m w f psl
    Aromasine
    Prami if needed
    HCG as needed.

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    Thanks Teutonic, i appreciate your advice bro.. i'll definitely make sure i get my info correct and have all gears at hand before i do anything. Like i said im not planning on doing anything anytime soon i wanna make sure i get the right stuff, all together, then make sure the knowledge is well built..Thanks again.

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juicepump







solid muscle isolate 5lb



solid muscle isolate 5lb

3Js Nutrition Network



mr supps