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  1. #1
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    Injection site pain? Read this!
    This was written by NeedtogetAAS-he is the owner of needtobuildmuscle.net and is a sponsor on this board. This read covers it all.



    1) Tissue Irritation
    This is probably the most likely cause of post injection pain and the least serious. Tissue irritation is likely to start 12-24 hours after injection, pain can be mild to moderate depending on the level of tissue irritation and the volume injected. The injection site is likely to swell within the muscle, maybe red and likely to be warm and very firm to the touch. The pain and swelling will start to fade after 72 hours and can last over a week in the worst cases. The most likely causes of tissue irritation are:
    The hormone crashes out of the solution in the depot. This causes crystallisation of the hormone, this in turn places a lot of pressure on the nerve endings in the muscle belly causing knotting, swelling and pain - this is most common in long chain esters, high mg/ml concentration gear and gear compounded with less than idea oil blends.
    A reaction to the acid compounds within the ester. With the ********* breakdown of the ester attached to the hormone free form acids are released which can cause the muscle tissue rapid irritation at the injection site – this is most common with propionic acid of the propionate ester. Poor quality raw materials also liberate more freeform acids.

    Newb muscles. Of course everyone knows your first injections are the worst. Over time your body will build a tolerance.

    Excessive preservative. If too much benzyl Alcohol is used to formulate the solution inflammation and pain may result. Pharma grade usually contains 0.9% Benzyl alcohol where the common senseu states UGL products contain on average 2%. Anything above 1.2% offers no added anti-microbial effects. Due to water soluable nature of benzyl alcohol tissue irritation of this nature has been known to “travel” as the excessive alcohol diss via the blood stream. This is most common with injection into the quads (vastus lateralis).The pain travels down toward the knee. This may however be in part due to lymphatic drainage and leads me nicely to my next point.
    Ice and ibuprofen may help with the swelling. Hot baths, showers and massage of the injection site may help to distribute the injection and reduce pain.

    2) Hitting the lymphatic system.
    Hitting the lymphatic system is very rare. The lymphatic system is as vast as the circulatory system but the standard injection sights (Glute, ventro-glute, medial delts and vastus lateralis) are generally void of lymphatic nodes. If a lymph node is hit with an injection pain is likely to be severe and edema vast. The swelling will come on very fast and be extensive. It is also likely to “travel” along the lymph system to the next lymph gland. This is most noticeable with a vastus lateralis shot where the swelling tracks down toward the back of the knee. Unlike the edema experienced with tissue irritation (within the muscle only) the edema with a lymphatic puncture will be both inter and intra-muscular with a moderate amount of swelling just underneath the skin giving it a softer puffy feel. This can be tested for by pressing the swollen area with your finger, if in indent remains you have a more systematic edema and more than just local tissue irreation. The other most noticeable difference is that the swelling should not be warm/hot to touch.
    Ice and ibuprofen may help. The affected area must be rested and the patient can expect pain and swelling to start to dis after 72 hours and last at least 10 days. The painful area must not be massaged.

    3) Infection and abscess.
    So now to the most serious reason for injection pain. An infection will start in the same manner as tissue irritation with local pain and swelling, with heat and redness around the muscle. The major difference is that after 72 hours tissue irritation should start to subside, if the area is indeed infected this pain and swelling will get worse. The swelling will change in nature becoming more systematic and edema will start to form under the skin becoming softer and more spongy (as described with a lymphatic puncture).

    There are many reasons why an infection can manifest, below are some of the most common examples.
    Poor injection technique. Correct, and sterile injection technique is a must. You must make sure the injection site and rubber stopper is clean and swabbed with an alcohol wipe.
    Also the moisture from the alcohol swab must be allowed to dry before preparing to inject. It is extremely rare but if the alcohol is not allowed to dry the bacterium has not been allowed adequate time to be killed off. If this partly destro bacterium was then pushed into a muscle through an Inter-muscular injection the bacterium can “evolve” into a superbug. My wife’s horse died this way due to an impatient vet.
    You should always use a clean and new syringe barrel and pin and not allow the pin to touch anything before you inject. Avoid pinning through a hair follicle or hair and don’t be tempted to inject too quickly. Injecting too quickly can increase the risk of infection as this in turn increases injection trauma.
    Not rotating injection sites. The risk of infection is massively increased if the same injection site is used over and over again without giving it time to recover. The more an injury (injection trauma) is irritated (re-injected) the more likely it is to become infected. Think back to being a child and picking that scab on your knee excessively and then being told “I told you so” when it becomes a yellow puss infected mess.
    Contaminated gear. IMO this is probably the least common cause of infection with oil based injections (I cannot say the same for water based injections). This is a no brainer really. Use a reble UGL or pharma and avoid water based suspensions.

    What to do in the case of an infection.

    So the pain and swelling has not subsided and the edema is pitting and moving outside the confides of the muscle fascia after 72 hours. With an infection the body is attempting to contain the bacterium and prevent it from
    reaching the circulatory system by forming a cyst. This is essential to prevent blood poisoning

    GET TO A DOCTOR RIGHT AWAY AND HAVE HIM TAKE A LOOK AT YOU. THERE IS NO DOCTORS ON THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need medical help at this point.
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  2. #2
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    More- from: Wrongun
    Here is some more information on the same subject that may prove useful

    Article by mad_cereal_lover - July 2008

    In this article I will review the main causes of localised muscular pain, tenderness and soreness that are experienced as a result of intramuscular (IM) injections. There are two main causative groups which injection pain can be categorised:

    1. Pain due to route of administration
    2. Pain due to the substance being injected

    Within these two categories there are further sub-groups for causes of injection pain, and these will be discussed in further detail.

    1. Pain due to route of administration

    i Invasiveness of injection.

    The initial cause of injection pain that may be experienced is quite simply the fact that an IM injection itself is an invasive procedure, in that the body's natural barrier of skin is being penetrated by a sharp needle and any further cellular content along the needle's path is being sheared. This in itself, although relatively invasive, can cause some pain. This pain tends to be initial, however due to the design of sterile needles for injection, the curved nature of the needle point allows for minimal pain, and thus this is not a common cause of post-injection pain.

    ii Opening a new IM injection site.

    When a new muscular site is invaded and a volume of substance is injected therein, there is often some soreness associated with such an injection. The muscle group is not used to containing an additional volume of a substance, thus pain can result. This is usually only experienced when a site is first used for an IM injection. This is why when using a new site it is encouraged to inject a smaller amount initially, from 0.5-1ml dependent upon muscle size. Such pain and soreness usually ceases after a site has received at least one injection.

    iii Physical location of injection.

    Often when injecting a substance, the physical location, that is where the needle releases the substance, can result in discomfort after the injection. This is most likely due to the substance (especially if oil based and slowly absorbed) sitting in between muscle groups or in a small muscle, as this will cause more pain than being injected into the middle of a muscle or a larger muscle. This can happen from time to time even with experienced users.

    iv Volume of substance injected. Tying in with point 1(ii), the volume of injection will also make a significant difference to any soreness and pain experienced. Generally larger volumes are better tolerated in larger muscle groups (gluteus, quadriceps, etc), with smaller muscle groups (biceps, triceps, etc) fair better with smaller volumes (<2ml). As you increase the volume injected, you increase the amount of substance contained within the muscle that is normally present, thus you increase the risk of an inflammatory response and soreness. Very large volumes (>5-6ml, especially of oil-based substances) are not advised due to the risk of developing a sterile abscess.

    2. Pain due to the substance being injected

    i Abscess development. As with any substance, unless it is sterile (and even in sterile cases bacteria on skin and body hair may be pushed past the skin barrier inside the body by the injection procedure) there is a high risk of developing an internal infection known as an abscess. This will result in large amount of swelling, redness, flu-like symptoms and increased lymphocytes thus increased inflammation resulting in a fair degree of pain experienced. The risk of such infections being developed when using completely sterile products however is very low.

    ii Solvent concentration of substance. The concentration and type of solvents used in the preparation of the substance to be injected will affect any pain and soreness that will be experienced post-injection. Certain buffers and solvents used when injected in pure form give a fair amount of soreness. For example, some peptides are suspended in 100mM acetic acid, which when injected even in small amounts can give the user some discomfort. It is an important point to make that pain resulting from solvent concentrations used is most likely to commence quite soon after the injection, from a few minutes to a few hours maximum. Pain that takes longer than this to develop is usually due to other factors discussed here.

    Another common solvent used as a preservative in anabolic steroid and other IM injection preparations, is benzyl alcohol (BA). At high concentrations, BA will cause injection pain in the vast majority of users. However in concentrations <10% BA, most will experience little discomfort due to BA. Many people claim that underground laboratories that make injectable anabolic steroids in a non-regulated manner use high BA percentages in their products such as testosterone propionate which is why users experience pain. However, as explained here and in point 2(iii), the BA is unlikely to be the cause of pain. This is why it should be noted that in actual fact, many pharmaceutical preparations contain higher than expected amounts of BA in them. deca-Pronabol, a pharmaceutically produced form of nandrolone decanoate, contains 9% BA and users generally report no pain associated with its injection. Some preparations of sustanon-250 by established pharmaceutical companies are made with 10% BA (0.1ml BA per 1.0ml ampoule). However, many would here argue that sustanon-250 is a sore injection for many. Despite this, when one looks at the make-up of the active ingredients of sustanon-250, we see a combined testosterone propionate and phenylpropionate amount of roughly 100mg/ml. For reasons discussed in part 2(iii), we may safely assume that the pain is more likely to occur due to the high concentration of these short esters, as opposed to merely high BA concentration. However, it is worth remembering that everyone reacts differently to various solvents and 10% BA may not cause pain for many users, but it will cause soreness for a significant percentage of other users. Other solvents within the preparation apart from the ones outlined here can also contribute or cause injection pain; however the ones discussed are the most significant in the context of anabolic steroid preparations.

    3. Concentration of active product. This is probably the most prevalent cause of post-injection pain experienced by anabolic steroid users. This is most likely due to the demand for underground laboratories to produce more concentrated steroid preparations (high mg/ml of hormone) to reduce number and volumes of injections. One good example of this is the production of testosterone propionate by many different labs. If we look at the preparation of testosterone propionate by legitimate pharmaceutical companies, we see that the maximum concentration normally produced is 50mg/ml. Despite this, most underground labs today will produce multi-use vials of testosterone propionate that are at a minimum of 100mg/ml. Hormones that contain short esters on them (like acetate, propionate, phenylpropionate) have a much higher melting point and thus cannot be made as concentrated as those with longer esters (enanthate, decanoate, etc). Although testosterone propionate can be effectively made in standard amounts of solvents and oil to 100mg/ml without crashing out of this solution, once injected in the body, the solvents tend to leach out of the solution very quickly, being absorbed much quicker than the oil. This leaves behind oil and hormone in the muscle, and at the higher concentrations (which rely on solvents to not crash in solution) this will result in some of the hormone crashing out of solution to give crystals. These crystals cause significant muscular discomfort, and also can result in the recruitment of lymphocytes involved in inflammation thus the area around the crystals can get inflamed with a build up of blood cells. This takes time to dissipate and longer for the crystals to be absorbed into the body, which is why this type of pain and discomfort usually lasts for several days.

    It should be noted however that there are certain carriers and solvents which allow for higher mg/ml preparations to be made that result in the reduction of pain. One solvent occasionally used is guaicol, which allows for more concentrated solutions to be produced and also acts as a slight analgesic or pain reliever at the site of injection. A more useful lipid carrier as an alternative to a normal oil carrier is ethyl oleate (EO). EO can be substituted for other carrier oils, and is a less viscous (thinner) carrier that also allows more of the hormone to be dissolved in it compared with other oils. The safety of EO for injections in humans is often questioned; however several different pharmaceutically produced injection products have been made that use EO as a carrier, most notably Farmak testosterone propionate. Furthermore, ethanol (alcohol) is converted to several products in the body when ingested, one being oleic acid. One potential issue with the use of EO however, is that a small percentage of users may experience an allergic-type reaction to its use, typified by a rash and some local discomfort, yet this is a more rare reaction to EO.

    Below is a list of common anabolic steroids and when prepared with common percentages of solvents and normal oil carriers (not EO), what the maximum normal concentration that can be achieved before pain is experienced:
    testosterone Propionate <100mg/ml
    testosterone Enanthate <300mg/ml
    testosterone Cypionate <250mg/ml
    nandrolone Decanoate <325mg/ml
    nandrolone Phenylpropionate <150mg/ml
    trenbolone Acetate <100mg/ml
    trenbolone Enanthate <250mg/ml
    Boldenone Undecylenate (eq) <900mg/ml
    Methenolone Enanthate <75mg/ml
    Drostanolone Propionate <150mg/ml

    In summary, there are various different causatives of IM pain post-injection, however the most prevalent is likely to be the concentration of hormone used in the preparation and secondly to a lesser extent, the concentration of solvents used. However as outlined, with any injection this is an invasive procedure with regards to breaking the body's natural barriers, there is always a risk of soreness and discomfort.
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  3. #3
    n00b AnabolicLove's Avatar
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    This might take me a minute to read.. here I go.

  4. #4
    Yeah Buddy!!! JamieOleBoy's Avatar
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Greazy-Pickle's Avatar
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    DET your about a thread startin motherfucker today bro.. lol

  6. #6
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    now that we understand what a depot is this makes a hell of a lot more sense
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  7. #7
    LAST RITES READ... OLYMPIAN's Avatar
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    Hmm
    I keep hearing that prop. is a bitch, but Im running some now and its not bad at all.

    I ran some enathate a few months ago, and that shit almost killed me. My thigh shots had me hobbling for a whole week.

  8. #8
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    Great read oak!

    Olympian..... Only thing better than prop, in my mind, is a good blowjob.... But the half life on that is only about 22.5 minuits...... Hmmmm..... I'll stick with the prop! Lol
    just make sure to split that shit with b-12 and you'll feel nothing.

  9. #9
    Junior Bodybuilder chevyon6s's Avatar
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    great post.........that first one pretty much sums up everything im going through and matches up to my gear....might sleep a little better tonight....

  10. #10
    Official Sponsor Cheappinz's Avatar
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    I've also been told that blonde hair, blue eyed, fair people are more likely to have an alcohol/preservative sensitivity manifesting in slight irritation to incredible swelling and redness with pain.

    A friend of mine fits this profile. After one shot, his thigh had a baseball like welt, redness, and pain that lasted a few days. He was very concerned.

    I would think the section on max strengths before pain would actually somehow correlate to maximum strengths available or possible for a particular compound. There's this thing called "solubility" where a solid is only able to dissolve a certain amount in a liquid...any more and it falls out. That seems to make more sense than a pain scale.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip TRT View Post
    Great read oak!

    Olympian..... Only thing better than prop, in my mind, is a good blowjob.... But the half life on that is only about 22.5 minuits...... Hmmmm..... I'll stick with the prop! Lol
    just make sure to split that shit with b-12 and you'll feel nothing.

    You run b12 in every prop shot? How much? Never thought of that,

  12. #12
    RJ
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    I have injected 1ml (100%) BA into my body with no pain. That part i still think is bullshit, but decent read nonetheless.

  13. #13
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    hahahaha^ i agree RJ that was the myth i tried to bust in my debunking thread
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  14. #14
    Official Sponsor Cheappinz's Avatar
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    I don't believe anyone could or would try straight alcohol...It stings enough when a prep pad isn't dry on the skin before having a shot...
    I think the most painful thing I've ever tried was acetyl l carnitine. It has a lot of benefits and can be taken orally, IM, subQ, and even transdermally. I tried subQ and it felt like shards of glass...This is a common meso ingredient to preserve youth as well..but they typically use some numbing agents to make it tolerable.

  15. #15
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    What's the best time to inject? I'm running Test Enanthe 350 1cc twice a week. Monday and Thursday. Morning or night?

  16. #16
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    Thanks Det Oak. This hopefully will stick around so we don't have a million threads of people thinking they will die or their leg will fall of because of injection pain.

  17. #17
    Novice tommygunn76's Avatar
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    Bump!

  18. #18
    Pro Bodybuilder jadakiss's Avatar
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    Great thread

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    great, great post. I get pharma grade enthenate from my endo who says I can choose my own pinning frequency. I'm not looking to be mr olympia, just wanting to feel young again Starting w 1.5ml of 200mg/ml every other week.
    First shot was from nurse in glute and aside from a little soreness it was no big deal. Second they had me do and went with thigh. Ok, I'm a neelde-phobe and it took 2 tries. Didn't realize until after that my first attempt actually did prick the skin. After the actual injection I had 2 small bleeding holes. It's a little more than 48hrs later and man my thigh hurts. within 12hrs there was noticeable swelling compared to right leg. Pain subsided some yesterday but today it's back.
    So it's a virgin site (though the glute was, too), but I'm also wondering if I didn't push a bit of skin flesh into the muscle, too, adding to the irritation. There's a small injection site bruise, but it's not hot or excessive. It was a 22g needle, so there's no way I pushed it too fast. Only other thing I though of is that I may have backed out the needle while injecting. I suppose this may have created a channel for the T to expand into and create more damage than just injecting with needle in one spot.

    Anyone care to weigh in on that?

    I figure I'll rotate left and right thigh so each gets hit once a month. but if this continues I'll proly have the gf do it inthe glute again.

  20. #20
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    Just a quick question...

    I injected 2cc of test 400 in to the glute with no issues (except normal ache)
    I then got kicked accidentally in the injection spot around a day later.
    Now the lump has appeared.
    Not red or hot (overly hot at least) but a little painful.

    Could this be something more than just a knock to injection spot which has aggravated to already aggravated muscle that I have injected into?

    Thanks in advance

  21. #21
    Wet
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    Thanks for a great post! I've just experienced PIP with my first injection, the symptoms followed your explanation of tissue irritation.
    R9 likes this.

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    my injection has crashed. will it help to put ice on it?

  23. #23
    Moderator Megatron28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tboy1957 View Post
    my injection has crashed. will it help to put ice on it?
    What do you mean by your injection has crashed? Can you try saying that a different way?
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