(Forum for members to discuss the use of anabolic steroids)
first cycle? which way do go i george?
There are a ton of different sites on the internet and each one kinda has their own views and techiniques about how to cycle properly. I thought this was a great post on all the different views on how to approach your first cycle. I myself went the conservative route and im glad i did test only on my first cycle cause i was no where near ready for much more. Keep in mind i do not agree with half the shit in here but i like learning all kinds of different views just to further my knowledge base
this was posted by furious george on T nation.
First off please don't email me asking for juice connections, I don't have any to give out. I am happy to help people with cycle plans but won't hook you up with a connection. I am not a medical professional, just a dude that knows a lot about juice so take my advice as just that.
So on to the guide...
you wanna learn about juice eh. Well the purpose of this thread is twofold:
1. There are way too many "this is my first cycle, does this look ok" threads junking up the steroid page and they all get the same response so I am going to try to save everyone some time. Read it. Re-read it until you understand it so you don't waste people's time with questions that have been asked a thousand times.
2. I would like to provide everyone that is trying to learn with a very quick and easy guide to understand how to put together a proper cycle that will match their goals. This is really the basis of what you need to know. My reasons are kinda selfish for this - I would like androgens to be legal for use (over the counter) in my country one day before I die; for this to happen we are gonna need to educate people so they stop fucking up and giving gear a bad name.
PART I - YOUR FIRST CYCLE
There seems to be two schools of thought on first cycles:
One camp says juice hard your first cycle (about 1-1.5g/week), primarily test (500-1000mg/w) and then a secondary compound and orals to make up the rest because you will make you best gains on your first so you might as well max it out. My issue with this approach is there is a very high potential for things to go wrong so you need to be really well prepared, well educated about dealing with sides, and you need to trust your ancilliary source (to mitigate side effects).
The other camp says use a moderate amount of test only *500-600mg/w) and use more test/different compounds on successive cycles to continue making gains. Save the Deca, Tren, Masteron, EQ, Winstrol (winny), HGH, IGF-1, etc, etc that you have heard about to get more out of future cycles...chances are this isn't going to be the only cycle you run so add them into future cycles one at a time so you know what works best for you and you continue to see big gains in future cycles. They don't really work better than test, they just work different so you might as well start with just test to see how your body reacts to it...I will go over all the other compounds in the later sections so just forget about them until you understand this one.
I am not sure anymore which camp I am in...I think the more conservative one just because it is an easier learning process and a bit safer but that is not to say it will produce better gains. That would require a lot more research of both protocols head to head.
This is an ideal first cycle for everyone or at least a base to build on:
(NOTE - W X-Y means start of week X to end of week Y)
W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)
This would be an example of a camp number 2 keep it simple cycle. You don't really need to get more complicated than this but if you want to below are some typical inclusions for a first cycle...
Optional secondary additions
W 1-4 Dbol 10mg 3x/d if you want an oral kickstart or just a little something extra thrown in mid cycle when your test is kicking in (seems most lately are going with the latter)
W 1-8 Deca 300mg/w if you want some additional bulking help
W 1-8 Tren Enth 150mg E3D if you want additional strength help
W 6-12 Proviron 25mg 2x/d if you want some help with libido
W 1-12 Nolva 20mg/d if gyno symptoms (itchy/tender nipples) start to show
W 1-10 Caber 0.5mg 2x/w if you are having prolactin issues (difficulty getting an erection when on tren or deca)
W 3-10 Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 250iu 3x/w if you want to prevent your nuts from shrinking and make recovery easier
Post Cycle Therapy starts week 13
It is the same with either approach...you just have to make sure that your gear is cleared from your system before you start PCT (or it won't work because you will still be getting suppressed from the gear).
PCT Option 1 (SERM PCT)
W 13 Nolva 20mg 2x/d or Clomid 50mg 2x/d
W 14-16 Nolva 20mg/d or Clomid 25mg/d
PCT Option 2 (Test Stasis and Taper)
W 10-12 Off (if your cycle was enth 2 weeks is enough to drop down to normal levels)
W 13-14 Test Enth 40mg E3D (stasis portion to mimic normal hormone levels)
W 15-16 Test Enth 30mg E3D (taper portion)
W 17-18 Test Enth 20mg E3D
W 19-20 Test Enth 10mg E3D
The taper gradually takes your body below normal androgen levels slowly enough that it is able to kick in and compensate. There is a much more detailed explaination of this in the "Test Taper Protocol" sticky thread so I suggest you read that if you are interested in this approach.
Now that you know what to take lets talk about who should cycle and what to eat and train.
YOU SHOULD NOT CYCLE IF:
1. You are under the age of 25
The reason is that your natural test is still very high and you are able to make very good gains without gear. There is also a very good likelyhood that you are going to end up messing up your endocrine system because you are still in a period where it is fluctuating. If you are not making good gains you need to look at your training and nutrition. I personally waited until I was 27 to start taking gear even though I was ready to rock when I was 20 so I know how you feel but you need to trust that with proper diet and training you can make gains naturally. The rare exception is individuals with a lot of training experience in their teens who have already acheived a very high level of physical development (230lbs+) and is already at or near their genetic limit. If you are one of the rare individuals who has already reach a very high level of development through consistent training the absolute earliest you should consider gear is 20.
2. You are over 25 but have been training less than 5 years
If you have not been working your ass off in the gym for at least 5 years naturally with good nutrition you have a lot of natural potential left. It is best to exhaust as much of your natural potential possible before resorting to gear. Gear should be the final piece of the puzzle to your ideal physique. By gearing up too soon you may be short changing yourself.
3. Your diet and training is crap
Gear is not a magical pill. It makes hard work more rewarding, it doesn't give results for doing nothing. All you will get is some temporary water retention which will be gone when your cycle ends. Diet and training on gear is everything. Period. You should have a very good idea of what you are going to eat (including macronutrient breakdown) and what your training plan is going to be. If you aren't already eating properly you can make some very good gains by doing so first naturally. If you aren't already training properly you can make some very good gains naturally...make use of that then think about gear. This site has a wealth of info on both topics. If your training and diet is off you will just waste your money doing a cycle.
4. You are a fat guy looking to get "cut", "ripped", or "shredded"
If you are a big fatso and think gear is going to make you slim and jacked it isn't going to happen. Fatloss comes from proper diet and training. If you can't cut down without the gear you will have just as much trouble on the gear. If you are looking for something to aid fatloss try a fatburner and then add on muscle once you have cut down.
It will look a lot more impressive and be a lot more successful....again this site has a wealth of info on losing fat...I highly recommend checking out the Velocity Diet that Gus is doing in the Physique Clinic...it shows what proper training and dieting can do. The anabolic diet is great for guys, I suggest checking it out as well because if you are fat you are likely fairly insulin resistant so cutting carbs will likely provide very damatic results. You get to eat a lot and because of what you are eating your natural testosterone will be high.
Cutting cycles are run by vets that already know what they are doing, have diet and nutrition down, and are just looking for the last little tweak to their already lean physique. Once you have achevied that status you can look at cutting cycles.
5. You are emotionally unstable
Gear can mess with your emotions. If you are an unhappy/depressed person that thinks being geared up is going to make your life better chances are you are going to feel good for a little while when on and then when you come off you are going to be lower than when you started and likely downright suicidal.
If you are a livewire that goes off in a rage when you drink, do drugs, or when someone pushes your buttons guess what? Gear is going to make this worse. If you have trouble controlling your anger then gear will make it more difficult. You will likely end up acting like a bit of a maniac and alienate your friends.
If you have answered yes to any of the above 5 questions you are not ready for gear.
Read this. Re-read this. Let it sink in. Then read everything in the Newbie thread stickied right beside this thread if you haven't already. Then come up with a plan that works best for you based on YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF GEAR. Post it on the board and get feedback once you know that you are serious and have most of the details figured out.
Last edited by THE-DET-OAK; 03-13-2010 at 05:51 PM.
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I really dont agree... and the cycle examples kinda suck.
Bad advice... This guy is saying Tren is OK for a first cycle.WTF?
And the PCT option 2 "Test Stasis and Taper" is a bad idea.
i dont agree with half of it either-but its def interesting to see the diff views out there.........it seems every board has a diff opinion
Need TRT? >>>>>>> Call IMT >>>>>>>>>Real Programs, Real Results
IncreaseMyT.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 866-206-9926
Get better at what you're good at.
Thus the reason I am here... I have been on at least 3 other boards and the shit some of the "vets" said was retarded.
- Rep Power
Is this test taper post cycle therapy (pct) Option 2 something that anyone here has either tried or would advocate in certain situations (ie at the end of a low dose test only cycle)?
Last edited by Deadin5years; 03-16-2010 at 10:02 AM.
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