(Forum for members to discuss the use of anabolic steroids)
Post By the Cat
Post By oldmusclemike
Post By halfwit
Post By STAUNCHED427
b12 why you need it to grow
Introduction -- Functions --
Vitamin B12 is a member of the vitamin B complex. It contains cobalt, and so is also known as cobalamin. It is exclusively synthesised by bacteria and is found primarily in meat, eggs and dairy products. There has been considerable research into proposed plant sources of vitamin B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds, and algae such as spirulina have all been suggested as containing significant B12. However, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be unavailable to humans and so these foods should not be relied upon as safe sources. Many vegan foods are supplemented with B12. Vitamin B12 is necessary for the synthesis of red blood cells, the maintenance of the nervous system, and growth and development in children. Deficiency can cause anaemia. Vitamin B12 neuropathy, involving the degeneration of nerve fibres and irreversible neurological damage, can also occur.
Vitamin B12's primary functions are in the formation of red blood cells and the maintenence of a healthy nervous system.
B12 is necessary for the rapid synthesis of DNA during cell division. This is especially important in tissues where cells are dividing rapidly, particularly the bone marrow tissues responsible for red blood cell formation. This is important for muscle tissue growth.
If B12 deficiency occurs, DNA production is disrupted and abnormal cells called megaloblasts occur. This results in anaemia. Symptoms include excessive tiredness, breathlessness, listlessness, pallor, and poor resistance to infection. Other symptoms can include a smooth, sore tongue and menstrual disorders. Anaemia may also be due to folic acid deficiency, folic acid also being necessary for DNA synthesis.
B12 is also important in maintaining the nervous system. Nerves are surrounded by an insulating fatty sheath comprised of a complex protein called myelin. B12 plays a vital role in the metabolism of fatty acids essential for the maintainence of myelin. Prolonged B12 deficiency can lead to nerve degeneration and irreversible neurological damage.
When deficiency occurs, it is more commonly linked to a failure to effectively absorb B12 from the intestine rather than a dietary deficiency. Absorption of B12 requires the secretion from the cells lining the stomach of a glycoprotein, known as intrinsic factor. The B12-intrinsic factor complex is then absorbed in the ileum (part of the small intestine) in the presence of calcium. Certain people are unable to produce intrinsic factor and the subsequent pernicious anaemia is treated with injections of B12.
Vitamin B12 can be stored in small amounts by the body. Total body store is 2-5mg in adults. Around 80% of this is stored in the liver.
Vitamin B12 is excreted in the bile and is effectively reabsorbed. This is known as enterohepatic circulation. The amount of B12 excreted in the bile can vary from 1 to 10ug (micrograms) a day. People on diets low in B12, including vegans and some vegetarians, may be obtaining more B12 from reabsorption than from dietary sources. Reabsorption is the reason it can take over 20 years for deficiency disease to develop in people changing to diets absent in B12. In comparison, if B12 deficiency is due to a failure in absorption it can take only 3 years for deficiency disease to occur.
B12 has very low toxicity and high intakes are not thought to be dangerous.
Very interesting...good post
Where do you inject? IM or in stomach fat like hcg? I tried in quad, but it killed me
Im starting to suspect my tren has been B12 this whole time
Originally Posted by 49ER
So with that good post can you follow it up with the difference between Cyanacobolamin B-12 and Methycobalamin B-12.
There is a big difference
Also the Cyanacobolamin has a very miniscule amount of cyanide in it.
Last edited by oldmusclemike; 04-10-2015 at 01:11 AM.
Also curious. I was going to start supplementing with Vit b12 in the form of methylcobalimin but I've been told it will increase the rate at which your RBC counts rises on AAS.
Originally Posted by oldmusclemike
methylcobalamin VS Cyanacobolamin
Cyanacobolamin is the most commonly supplemented form of vitamin B12, but you might be surprised to discover that this form of vitamin B12 does not actually occur in plants or animal tissues. In other words, outside of the chemically synthesized cyanocobalamin that you encounter as B12 in most vitamin supplements, you would be extremely hard pressed to find this compound in nature (in fact you would not be able to find it). As the name implies, cyanocobalamin contains a cyanide molecule. Most people are familiar with cyanide as a poisonous substance. Although the amount of cyanide in a normal B12 supplement is small and from a toxicology point, viewed as insignificant, your body will still need to remove and eliminate this compound. This removal is accomplished through your detoxification systems with substances like glutathione being very important for the elimination of the cyanide.
Compared with cyanocobalamin, it appears that methylcobalamin is better absorbed and retained in higher amounts within your tissues. In simple terms, they are used much more effectively. In general, methylcobalamin is used primarily in your liver, brain and nervous system.
Methylcobalamin is the specific form of B12 needed for nervous system health. Because of this it should be the first form of this vitamin thought of when interested in attempting to optimize the health of the nervous system with vitamin supplementation. Indications of a potential deficiency of B12 in the nervous system might include numbness, tingling, loss of feeling sensation, burning sensations, muscle cramps, nerve pain and slowness of reflexes.
Because of methylcobalamin's importance in nervous system health, it is also an important nutrient for vision. In fact, continued visual work (like work on a computer) often leads to a reduction in something called "visual accommodation". Methylcobalamin can significantly improve visual accommodation, while cyanocobalamin appears to be ineffective.
I'll try and get back with the link to this because there is much more written. I have been using the Methyl for two years and there is a night and day difference in the absorption as I can tell by my appetite and energy. I have never experienced any results using the Cyana B-12.
There are many studies concerning the Cyana and the Methyl B-12
Last edited by oldmusclemike; 04-10-2015 at 01:24 AM.
It can have an effect on your RBC but nothing I have seen or experienced and as we always say get BW and watch Estradiol and RBC's and much, much more. So if it becomes a problem back off. I use 5,000 mcg ED. I have good results.
Originally Posted by STAUNCHED427
PS: IMOP if you use Cyanacobolamin you are pissing in the north wind.
It does, but if you donate regularly - you should be fine. I too have been on methylcobalamin for a couple years and it's one of the few supplements that I can truly tell a difference with.
Originally Posted by STAUNCHED427
Great write up Mike!
HCT has never usually rose as rapid as what most guys appear to, I guess I'll just have to see how it goes.
As I also said like halfwit just said a big difference. ^^^^^^^^^
Originally Posted by halfwit
Energy level wise specifically? What about mood?
I've taken the inject-able B-12 shots that came with band-aids and 30 injectables .Something around $30 for the Cyanacobolamin liquid in a 30ml bottle.
Originally Posted by STAUNCHED427
I felt good and energy level was good too.I would normally labor in breathing around 192 pounds.Just more effort to move around.But with B-12 twice a week then to one a week..I went to 203 pounds and felt nothing like I would at 192.B-12 lets you eat large amount of food without adding the fat on assuming one is working out hard.
I would take the Cyanacobolamin rather than the other one because of cost and Cyanacobolamin convert to methylcobalamin anyways.
Just to add to the already great info, here is an excerpt from one of Austinites threads on B12:
This is my favorite additions, on or off cycle, so I'll go into more detail here than the others. There are several methods of delivering B12 to the bloodstream. I'll list them in the order of effectiveness.
2. Intramuscularly or subcutaneously.
I only recommend intravenous injection if you're an expert. Otherwise; for the average user I recommend either IM or SubQ injections. Sublingual can be effective in high doses and orals are simply weak.
Theres tons of argument about the effectiveness of oral B12 and there are tons of studies that prove this. However, there is not one single study (I've read most studies on PubMed) that would indicate optimum levels. Orals will work to bring a deficient patient into range. Remember the range for most diagnostics agencies is 200 to 1000. So it's easy to get from 180 (deficient) to 200+.
There are several types of B12 that you can use. I'll list them in the most effective order:
Methylcobalamin is more bioactive than any other and obviously does not require conversion by the body to methyl; the form that's most beneficial to support red cells and your nervous system. This one is necessary to break down homocysteine (breakdown of non-protein amino acids).
Adenosylcobalamin, the second on the list is really just as effective as Methyl. This is because it's also a form that is useful, as other forms of B12 would have to convert to either Adenosyl or Methyl. This one is a key player in ********* pathways.
Hydroxocobalamin must be converted by your body into methyl in order to be functional as stated above. The conversion process is certainly better than Cyanocobalamin, which is why it's third on the list. Hydroxo typically comes with other B vitamins. Which is important because B6, for example is required for the betterment of B12.
Cyanocobalamin is the one you find in just about every supplement. One of the reasons for that is because it's cheap to produce; making supplements cost effective, but unfortunately, not result effective. It's named Cyano because it's attached to the cyanide molecule. After the conversion process, very little methyl results. Intramuscular is a MUST with Cyano. Orals are not worth it.
If using a sublingual form, you should use no other than Methylcobalamin. Methyl, regardless of the delivery method is superior and most natural to all types. Sublingual doses should be administered at 35 times the dose of an injectable. That was not a typographical error. 35 times the injectable dose, however, dosing frequency would vary. I'll explain in a minute so that I don't end up gallivanting.
Now that we understand the types of B12 and administration methods, let's move onto how B12 actually works and what it does to your body once you introduce it exogenously to your body:
I'll try my best to keep this short. B12 in any form is converted to methyl or adenosyl, where the benefit begins. After conversion they breakdown important amino acids. Once in intestinal absorptive cells, It attaches to specific receptors. This process (depending on administration method) takes about 3 hours. At that stage B12 is circulating in your system and actively binding plasma proteins.
Every member here has probably heard of bodybuilders using B12 as part of their cycle protocols. Even off cycle, it's still being used. Now, you've probably heard that 1000mcg of oral B12 does not equal 1000mcg injected. This is true. And as mentioned earlier in this article, a sublingual dose of Methyl B12 should be 35 times higher. For example, if you dose B12 Methyl with a 1000mcg injection weekly, you would need 35,000 mcg of a sublingual equivalent. But sublingual methods require daily administration. So you would take 5,000mcg daily. While the sublingual yields great results for me, it certainly did not reach satisfactory (to me) serum levels. But still FAR superior to any other sublingual and frankly, even injectable Cyanocobalamin.
Quest Diagnostics range is 200 - 1100 pg/mL. I like to see my levels over 3000 pg/mL.
Here are some more benefits of B12:
1. Increased Energy.
2. Regenerates Red Blood Cells.
3. Healthy Bone Marrow.
4. Healthy Nervous System.
5. Helps Prevent Anemia.
6. Proper cell function.
7. Necessary for macronutrient metabolism (carbs, fats, proteins).
8. Enhances alertness and memory.
Sold yet? Supplement with B12. Always.
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