[diesel69]

My doctor says it will...

he also tells me that if you take Propecia along with Nolvadex the Propecia is less effective!!

[avangel]

^^I've never heard that before.

[diesel69]

me neither... i had a feeling my Doc was full of shit!!!

[ythrashin]

Nope

[HUGE.HULK]

Originally Posted by diesel69

My doctor says it will...

he also tells me that if you take Propecia along with Nolvadex the Propecia is less effective!!

Your doc should go back to med school.

[robbocopp]

you MUST have misunderstood.

Nolva (tamoxifen) has no negative effect on DHT - on the contrary - it will block the effect of estrogen in some tissues and RAISE your testosterone levels resulting in additional DHT conversion. So, take tamoxifen and you'll get extra hair loss.

On the other hand I am not a fan of Propecia - in theory it only blocks the action of DHT in some tissues - (types I and II of isoenzymes 5alpha-reductase) and also in theory it RAISES testosterone levels (by allowing less to be converted to DHT or by signalling the body there's not enough DHT ?? don't know this answer)

but in practice (I took it for years) a.) it stopped my hair loss as per personal observation and b.) it drastically lowered test levels and only tamoxifen therapy (with some exemestane) finally reversed it.

so... suck it up and lose the hair .. if it's going to happen it's going to happen

[Scarz]

Originally Posted by robbocopp

you must have misunderstood.

Nolva (tamoxifen) has no negative effect on dht - on the contrary - it will block the effect of estrogen in some tissues and raise your testosterone levels resulting in additional dht conversion. So, take tamoxifen and you'll get extra hair loss.

On the other hand i am not a fan of propecia - in theory it only blocks the action of dht in some tissues - (types i and ii of isoenzymes 5alpha-reductase) and also in theory it raises testosterone levels (by allowing less to be converted to dht or by signalling the body there's not enough dht ?? Don't know this answer)

but in practice (i took it for years) a.) it stopped my hair loss as per personal observation and b.) it drastically lowered test levels and only tamoxifen therapy (with some exemestane) finally reversed it.

So... Suck it up and lose the hair .. If it's going to happen it's going to happen

wrong

[robbocopp]

Originally Posted by Scarz

wrong

really ?? tell me ... which part ???

[MR10X]

Propecia doesnt attach and block anything,it stops the conversion of test to DHT.But doesnt do it 100%,it only stops about 70% so there will still be some DHT in your system especially if you use high doses of test.

[robbocopp]

Originally Posted by MR10X

Propecia doesnt attach and block anything,it stops the conversion of test to DHT.But doesnt do it 100%,it only stops about 70% so there will still be some DHT in your system especially if you use high doses of test.

In the meantime ... FINASTERIDE (Proscar) does indeed bind (ie. attach) to the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme (basically a protein) which is responsible for the conversion of testosterone into DHT.

Finasteride is an irreversible inhibitor which has a complementary shape to that of the active site of the 5-alpha-reductase (in other words, it has a similar shape to the substrate) --- which means that it will compete with the substrate for the enzyme.

5-Alpha-reductase exists as two isoenzymes Type 1 and Type 2. Finasteride inhibits Type 1 (selectively - although I have BIG doubts about the full selectivity) and Dudasteride inhibits BOTH.

Finasteride reduce serum levels of DHT by about 70% (like Mr10X says) and Dudasteride by 90%+.

By binding (finasteride that is) with the 5-alpha-reductase serum testosterone levels will go UP and so will ESTROGEN levels (in theory and according to most clinical studies).

If you read the prospect it will tell you that you might experience libido problems, as well as lower sperm and gynomastia.

All for a little bit of extra hair. I took it and it fu...d me up. Retention of water, loss of definition, loss of libido, lower spermagenesis and changes in thyroid hormone production, and, in my case LOWER testosterone levels (probably because of the thyroid change) .... and oh yeah, my hair stopped falling.

Sure others will NOT experience these problems - but - if you do, just remember it was on the prospect the whole time.