Caber/HCG

[jadioj]

My prolactin is on the higher side and my test is around 400 (I'm 24). I want to jolt my test and suppress prolactin so I got HCG and Caber. Is this combo safe ? Do I have to worry about an estrogen spike? Any thoughts on dosing?

[newbie23]

HCG will not help boost natural test levels-it will suppress them.

you can run the caber/prami anytime

[jadioj]

Originally Posted by newbie23

HCG will not help boost natural test levels-it will suppress them.

you can run the caber/prami anytime

What?? HCG will not boost natty test?? Doesn't it help increase LH?

[newbie23]

it does but only while your shooting it-it sends out an "artificial LH signal". Clomid and Nolva actually boost your own LH signal.

i would not run HCG unless i was suppressing my balls with an exogenous compound.

you could try some clomid or nolva

let me ask-why are your levels low? cycle history? stats?

[estray]

Originally Posted by jadioj

What?? HCG will not boost natty test?? Doesn't it help increase LH?

Only when its suppressed from running a cycle.

[jadioj]

Well I took crap prohormones back in Dec/Jan for 4 weeks and didn't really PCT until March (all I used was clomid). I recovered from 250 test to 400 but still not what I used to be based on feel/libido. So during the summer I got another blood test and the doc suggested to look at prolactin which turned out to be on the higher range. So now i'm here trying to figure out how to re-pct. Any thoughts? Caber/Clomid maybe??

Here are the ingredients:
Sus: Estra-4, 9-Diene-3, 17-Dione, 13-Ethyl-3-Methoxy-Gona-2, 5(10)-Diene-17-One 3, 17-Keto-Etiochol-

Tren:19-Norandrosta 4,9 diene- 3,17 dione is a progestin

[AustinTX]

Originally Posted by newbie23

HCG will not help boost natural test levels-it will suppress them.

you can run the caber/prami anytime

uh... if there is not a physilogical problem responding to LH causing low test in the first place (in which case LH would be high and test/free test still low), it will raise natural test levels and can be used for moderate TRT to boost test levels, although it is generally less effective the older one is...

Regardless of effectiveness in raising test levels, it will not supress natural production.

[AustinTX]

yes, you can use clomid as well to try to re-kick start your HPTA, HCG will not do that, it just artificially signals your testes to produce; when the HCG is cut the test levels would go back down... which is why you stop HCG when you start clomid for pct so you can increase your natural LH production.

[jadioj]

Thanks. So if my response system is still intact (meaning no hypogonadism) then why hasn't my system recovered after 9 months?

I can think of one thing and thats simple as lifestyle.
I have brought this up in other posts but I sleep 4-5 hours a night and go on roller coaster diets where I eat 1000 cals some times.

But I'm really hoping its prolactin and I'll try to suppress with caber and get natty levels up with clomid.

[macro]

you would be better off suppressing aromatase with either exemestane or an otc like AIFM.

do reccomend cabergoline (cabaser tabs only- though the pricey dostinex tabs are also fine) or pramipexole when prolactin is even implicated. If its over 10 then its more than implicated (just as a point of reference)-- you will note this is well within the "range". Range just means that you fall within the parameters OUTSIDE of disease states (does not mean that its optimal or even good).

Prami tends to be a lot more effective where there are physical and psychological issues (eg depression, libido, and anxiety)

aurapharm for cabaser tabs
researchstop for pramipexole solution
script or legitimate european pharmacy for prami tabs.

[jadioj]

My prolactin was 12 so you are right within range but still high.

I thought aromatase inhibitors like exe, letro, or anastozole kill libido?

So you would go with an AI/Caber over clomid/caber?

What would happen if I did an AI/Caber/Clomid? Is that estrogen overkill.

What are some otc AIFM?

[newbie23]

bump

[newbie23]

Originally Posted by AustinTX

uh... if there is not a physilogical problem responding to LH causing low test in the first place (in which case LH would be high and test/free test still low), it will raise natural test levels and can be used for moderate TRT to boost test levels, although it is generally less effective the older one is...

Regardless of effectiveness in raising test levels, it will not supress natural production.

good point-but in that case HCG would only be effective if he planned on staying on it indefineatley-he is trying to get back to normal-so HCG would do nothing to help him.

correct me if i am wrong but i am pretty sure HCG is suppressive? this is why we stop HCG before pct.

[jadioj]

Well my thought was as follows:

People who go on long cycles tend to use HCG in order to kick start testicles.

I figure since I am semi-shutdown its equivalent of being on cycle for that long of a peroid. So why not do two weeks of HCG and then clomid.

[newbie23]

i just dont think it is necessary-unless your are taking something that is suppressing your boy's-and in the long run i dont think it will help. im sure these guys will follow up and explain in more detail-but for now i like Macros rec.

keep in mind HCG creates aromatose activity.

[jadioj]

Right but aside from blood tests the way I know my system is shutdown is by libido and obv. thats my number one concern. So I heard letro kills libido but given thats an AI wouldn't EXE or ANa do the same?? And do you take AI's with Serms and I guess caber?

[newbie23]

well what suppresses libido is driving estrogen too low-you only need a small amount for function-so as long as you do not over do it with Exemestane-then it will not mess with your libido.

[newbie23]

yes you take AI with SERM.

AI reduces estrogen

SERM blocks estrogen-so sometimes when people use a SERM for Estrogen control-since they were just blocking it and it still builds in your system-then you can rebound-

[liftsmore]

So would someone run caber during cycle or pct?

[newbie23]

you can run caber yearlong.

[jadioj]

I'm just confused with running an AI/SERM together. I feel like that would be estro overkill. By your description the AI reduces it and the SERM blocks it. So the excess would be reduced through the AI and newly formed estro or a rebound would be blocked by the SERM which sounds like you would produce no estrogen at all.

[newbie23]

AI is aromatose inhibitor-meaning it slows the process of testosterone converting to estrogen-therefore lowering it.

Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator-this has nothing to do with the level of estrogen in your system. it just blocks it

[newbie23]

with gyno the least of your worries should be low levels of estrogen.

[jadioj]

Macro, are you suggesting I just do an AI?

Do AI's help kick-start HPTA or is it only clomid/nolva?

HPTA does that just repond to lower estro therefore both an AI or Serm would kickstart HPTA?

[macro]

Originally Posted by jadioj

Macro, are you suggesting I just do an AI?

Do AI's help kick-start HPTA or is it only clomid/nolva?

HPTA does that just repond to lower estro therefore both an AI or Serm would kickstart HPTA?

YES

YES, but they are not direct stimulators like clomiphene.

generally yes, but a short stint of clomiphene after you get E and PRL under control might be advisable.

use of pramipexole or cabergoline will also help to restore HPGA as prolactin is a strong suppressor of the axis.