Anabolic steroids, bodybuilding discussion forums. - Steroidology

 

(Forum for members to discuss the use of anabolic steroids)

Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Junior Bodybuilder J steel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    287
    Rep Power
    12
    ALA and r-ALA together?
    Looking for some opinions..........

    Currently, I am off cycle...........I take 1000mg ALA (from anabolical) along with my usual daily vitamins, joint support, etc.......
    I take the ALA mostly for liver support.


    My next cycle will be a bulking one...........I will be eating as clean as possible, but I still would like to take r-ALA to try and stop some of the fat gain. I was thinking maybe 4 a day.

    So here's my question...........I usually bump up my normal ALA to 1500mg when on (along with Tyler's liver detox when taking orals).........this time around, I think I will keep the ALA at 1000mg, but add in the 400mg (4 caps, 100mg each) of r-ALA throughout the day with carb meals.

    Is this too much? Are there any bad side effects / long term issues from taking too much ALA? Does what I planned out here make sense?

    Also, I read on AF about GLA and also biotin. Do you guys believe there really is a synergistic effect adding these in, or would you just stick to the r-ALA?

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Junior Bodybuilder J steel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    287
    Rep Power
    12
    just gonna give this a little ol' BUMP

  3. #3
    Administrator
    Site Manager
    StoneColdNTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    23,576
    Rep Power
    2000
    Good question............unfortunately I don't have an answer.
    Stone Cold..............................Never Too Old



    Disclaimer: Steroidology.com does not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information we share is for entertainment purposes only.

  4. #4
    Community Veteran hhajdo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    1,592
    Rep Power
    12
    There's no evidence that ALA improves skeletal muscle glucose transport in normal subjects.
    There's little difference in the effect of ALA & r-ALA in insulin resistant subjects, so I don't see any reason to stack them.

  5. #5
    Junior Bodybuilder J steel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    287
    Rep Power
    12
    thats interesting hhajdo..........so do you believe the only use for ALA, whether it be in r form or not, is strictly for liver support?

    If thats the case, what would be the recommended dosage. And is it safe to use year round?

  6. #6
    Community Veteran hhajdo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    1,592
    Rep Power
    12
    It's a great antioxidant & liver protector.
    1 g is more than enough for that purpose, in some studies 400 mg was used.

  7. #7
    Amateur Bodybuilder Frankie xq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    546
    Rep Power
    12
    wait for ulter

  8. #8
    Community Veteran
    Long-time Mod on Elite

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    2,709
    Rep Power
    12
    Originally posted by hhajdo
    There's no evidence that ALA improves skeletal muscle glucose transport in normal subjects.
    There's little difference in the effect of ALA & r-ALA in insulin resistant subjects, so I don't see any reason to stack them.
    thats incorrect.


    if you would like will pull the study..

    which stated that R+ had impact, just that it did not increase impact just post exercise(it did not increase post workout uptake, with a preworkout fasted state..) though the amount of carbs used was so low as to be a "non" test.

    and there is a huge difference between racemate and R+ in insulin resistant subjects- there are quite a # of studies that indicate this.

    pls. stop repeating nandi's foolish comments. because he does not know what he is talking about. as surprisingly enough he has not taken either. (the reason for which is quite amusing)

    btw- if they are your foolish comments.. well...

    Last edited by macro; 09-11-2003 at 06:01 AM.

  9. #9
    Junior Bodybuilder J steel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    287
    Rep Power
    12
    well i am going to give it a try macro, i will see for myself if i feel it makes a difference.

    so getting back to my question, will taking 1g of ALA along with 4-5 caps r-ALA be too much for my system? Am I better of only taking 500mg ALA with the glucorell? Is there any harm in taking too much?

    Also, how does GLA create a "synergistic effect" with r-ALA?

    And finally, the AF store stresses that biotin should be taken with ALA........is this strictly r-ALA, or any type of ALA? And why don't I see it offered at your store.

    Thanks in advance.

    BTW, I appreciate all of the responses guys.

  10. #10
    Community Veteran hhajdo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    1,592
    Rep Power
    12
    That's not nandi's statement,although he's not a fan of ALA either.

    It's not true that there's a huge difference between racemate and R+ in insulin resistant subjects in their effect on muscle glucose transport, plasma insulin, etc.... here's a comparison:



    Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle
    RYAN S. STREEPER, ERIK J. HENRIKSEN, STEPHAN JACOB, JASON Y. HOKAMA, DONOVAN L. FOGT, AND HANS J. TRITSCHLER

    Streeper, Ryan S., Erik J. Henriksen, Stephan Jacob, Jason Y. Hokama, Donovan L. Fogt, and Hans J.
    Tritschler. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am.
    J. Physiol. 273 (Endocrinol. Metab. 36): El&j--E191, 1997. The racemic mixture of the antioxidant a-lipoic acid (ALA)
    enhances insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism in insulin resistant humans and animals. We determined the individual
    effects of the pure R-(+) and S-(-) enantiomers of ALA on glucose metabolism in skeletal muscle of an animal model of
    insulin resistance, hyperinsulinemia, and dyslipidemia: the obese Zucker (falfa) rat. Obese rats were treated intraperito-
    neally acutely (100 mg/kg body wt for 1 h) or chronically [IO days with 30 mg/kg of R-( +)-ALA
    or 50 mg/kg of S-(-)-ALA].
    Glucose transport [2-deoxyglucose (2-DG) uptake], glycogen synthesis, and glucose oxidation were determined in the
    epitrochlearis muscles in the absence or presence of insulin (13.3 nM).Acutely, R-(+)-ALA increased insulin-mediated
    2-DG uptake by 64% (P < 0.05)
    , whereas S-(-)-ALA had no significant effect. Although chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment
    significantly reduced plasma insulin (17%)
    and free fatty acids (FFA; 35%) relative to vehicle-treated obese animals,
    S-(-)-ALA treatment further increased insulin (15%) and had no effect on FFA. Insulin-stimulated 2-DG uptake was in-
    creased by 65% by chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment
    whereas S-(-)-ALA administration resulted in only a 29% improve-
    ment. Chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment elicited a 26% increase in insulin-stimulated glycogen synthesis and a 33% enhance-
    ment of insulin-stimulated glucose oxidation.



    The antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid enhances insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant rat skeletal muscle
    S Jacob, RS Streeper, DL Fogt, JY Hokama, HJ Tritschler, GJ Dietze and EJ Henriksen
    Department of Physiology, University of Arizona College of Medicine, Tucson, USA.

    Insulin resistance of muscle glucose metabolism is a hallmark of NIDDM. The obese Zucker (fa/fa) rat--an animal model of muscle insulin resistance--was used to test whether acute (100 mg/kg body wt for 1 h) and chronic (5-100 mg/kg for 10 days) parenteral treatments with a racemic mixture of the antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) could improve glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Glucose transport activity (assessed by net 2-deoxyglucose [2-DG] uptake), net glycogen synthesis, and glucose oxidation were determined in the isolated epitrochlearis muscles in the absence or presence of insulin (13.3 nmol/l). Severe insulin resistance of 2-DG uptake, glycogen synthesis, and glucose oxidation was observed in muscle from the vehicle-treated obese rats compared with muscle from vehicle-treated lean (Fa/-) rats. Acute and chronic treatments (30 mg.kg-1.day-1, a maximally effective dose) with ALA significantly (P < 0.05) improved insulin-mediated 2-DG uptake in epitrochlearis muscles from the obese rats by 62 and 64%, respectively. Chronic ALA treatment increased both insulin-stimulated glucose oxidation (33%) and glycogen synthesis (38%) and was associated with a significantly greater (21%) in vivo muscle glycogen concentration. These adaptive responses after chronic ALA administration were also associated with significantly lower (15-17%) plasma levels of insulin and free fatty acids. No significant effects on glucose transporter (GLUT4) protein level or on the activities of hexokinase and citrate synthase were observed. Collectively, these findings indicate that parenteral administration of the antioxidant ALA significantly enhances the capacity of the insulin-stimulatable glucose transport system and of both oxidative and nonoxidative pathways of glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant rat skeletal muscle.


    So, both have similar effects, it's not true that S- inhibits R+, that racemic increases plasma insulin, etc. so as I said I don't see any reason to stack them.

    When I made a comment about its effect on insulin sensitive subjects, I was referring to:


    J Appl Physiol 92: 50-58, 2002; 10.1152/japplphysiol.000617.2001

    Effects of exercise training and antioxidant R-ALA on glucose transport in insulin-sensitive rat skeletal muscle


    In which no effect was noticed... I did see a study in which it enhanced glucose uptake (in insulin sensitive muscle) in vitro.

  11. #11
    Community Veteran hhajdo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    1,592
    Rep Power
    12
    Originally posted by J steel
    well i am going to give it a try macro, i will see for myself if i feel it makes a difference.

    so getting back to my question, will taking 1g of ALA along with 4-5 caps r-ALA be too much for my system? Am I better of only taking 500mg ALA with the glucorell? Is there any harm in taking too much?

    Also, how does GLA create a "synergistic effect" with r-ALA?

    And finally, the AF store stresses that biotin should be taken with ALA........is this strictly r-ALA, or any type of ALA? And why don't I see it offered at your store.

    Thanks in advance.

    BTW, I appreciate all of the responses guys.
    1.5 g wouldn't be too much.
    You can find some info about the synergistic effect of ALA & GLA (in insulin resistant subjects) here:

    http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/co...ull/278/2/R453

    R-ALA (from AF) contains biotin.
    Last edited by hhajdo; 09-11-2003 at 02:21 PM.

  12. #12
    Junior Bodybuilder J steel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    287
    Rep Power
    12
    great info, thanks hhajdo

Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  

3Js Nutrition Network

juicepump















mr supps







need to build muscle