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  1. #1
    Junior Bodybuilder Live2Train's Avatar
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    Good read regarding gyno and Letro
    I have been seeing quite a few threads started lately about guys who think they have gyno and want to know what to do. i am one of those guys and when I found this, I figured I wouls share it with the rest of you guys. I know some on here may think it's all BS or that there are many holes in it, but all in all I felt it was a great read. If anyone feels the information given is wrong please comment as I would love to hear other opinion. Hopefully this will help some.

    All you need to know about GYNO.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I am posting this thread to help answer all of the questions regarding gyno prevention and reversal, the use of letrozole and other anti-e***8217;s. I will go over everything in very simple easy to understand language. Also we are talking about estrogen gyno here, not progesterone (but using letro will stop progesterone related problems as well since it inhibits all estrogen anyways). Progesterone gyno will be enlargement of your nipple area, the actual aereola, not a lump under it.

    Let me make this first point very clear, as I state in my signature this is from my personal experience, so whether you agree with it or not is your own issue. I have helped many people with gyno and it has worked just fine for them as well.

    To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:

    SERM ***8211; Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
    Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
    AI ***8211; Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI***8217;s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
    Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

    Letro and your sex drive:
    Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

    Running letro to prevent gyno:
    If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Letro will be the most powerful Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

    You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don***8217;t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

    If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

    This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno***8230;let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

    It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

    How do I know if I have gyno?
    If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

    Running letro to reverse gyno:
    I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

    1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
    2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
    3. Not running any estrogen protection.

    1.
    Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
    Day 2: .50mg Letro
    Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
    Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
    Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
    Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

    2.
    Day 1: .50mg Letro
    Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
    Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
    Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
    Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

    3.
    Day 1: .50mg Letro
    Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
    Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
    Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
    Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

    *Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

    ** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

    Day 1: 2.0mg
    Day 2: 1.5mg
    Day 3: 1.0mg
    Day 4: .50mg***
    Day 5: .25mg
    ***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

    Letro and the estrogen rebound:
    With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your post cycle therapy (pct) so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular post cycle therapy (pct).

    This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can***8217;t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

    How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into post cycle therapy (pct) and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.
    Last edited by StoneColdNTO; 05-15-2009 at 03:30 PM.

  2. #2
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    *Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

    One day is not near enough..letro can take up to 6 weeks to kick in, in some cases.

  3. #3
    Amateur Bodybuilder bigpapabuff's Avatar
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    I have used letro in the past with real success, and i think its definitely the best research chem for gyno issues.

  4. #4
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    very good read on letro and gyno prevention, used letro before with some very good results. It was strong stuff, just used a smaller dose eod and it worked great.

  5. #5
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    can gyno start a while after a cycle? and if it does would letro be the thing to try? Think its started with me over a yr later

  6. #6
    Junior Bodybuilder Animal1852's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruckandmaul View Post
    can gyno start a while after a cycle? and if it does would letro be the thing to try? Think its started with me over a yr later
    Over a year later no, there is no ester of test that would linger that long and convert to estro. Thats from a poor diet, genetics or high BF.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for that comment. So first thing to do would be sort my diet out and train to lose sum unwanted weight? I was thinking it was a bit weird starting to notice it now feels slightly lumpy but dont no if im just paranoid

  8. #8
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    unless your nips are hard as hell.....and the lump painful.....i would bet its just fatty deposits
    Need TRT? >>>>>>> Call IMT >>>>>>>>>Real Programs, Real Results

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  9. #9
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    have noticed my nipples bein harder and slightly bigger, lumps aint painfull, i have always carried fat on my chest, just noticed lumps the past 2wks. what do fatty deposits feel like? should i try letro? any info or help i will be most greatfull

  10. #10
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    it just sounds like fat to me....but who knows

    you prolly just never noticed them before-if you had gyno it would hurt your nips just rubbing against your shirt.
    Need TRT? >>>>>>> Call IMT >>>>>>>>>Real Programs, Real Results

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  11. #11
    IncreasedMyT @ ULV THE-DET-OAK's Avatar
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    are you on cycle?
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  12. #12
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    no not since april/may2008, thinkin of using letro, theres is sum sorta lumps, can this be fatty deposits? my body fat is high just now due to being injured and bad diet

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruckandmaul View Post
    have noticed my nipples bein harder and slightly bigger, lumps aint painfull, i have always carried fat on my chest, just noticed lumps the past 2wks. what do fatty deposits feel like? should i try letro? any info or help i will be most greatfull
    I had gyno in puberty and my chest always carries more fat then other areas of my body. 6 weeks into my cycle and I've noticed no difference just muscle growth. I am starting adex tomorrow until the end of my cycle.

    My nips definitely look worse at higher bf% but under 10 they are normal.
    What is your bf%?
    When I started lifting (6yrs) I went through a all you can eat period and drank loads of milk thinking that was the way to get big. My chest looked horrible but I did gain 40lbs Spent the next 2 yrs trying to strip the fat

  14. #14
    Junior Bodybuilder methos's Avatar
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    Just curious, why would Nolvadex be insufficient to reverse gyno. From personal experience I have proved this to be incorrect. Every time my nips start getting tender during cycle I take a 20mg tab at night and wake up just fine. It only takes one. On a similar note, I had a lump behind left nip for years. I went to my plastic surgeon buddy to have it removed, since he usually doesn't deal with these issue he sent me to another doc who did a workup with mamogram. (painful as hell when you have no body fat) She said she could take it out if I want. I'm only 7% BF and only I noticed it. This is also 10 years from being on cycle. I took Nolvadex for a week and the lump went away slowly. I cannot fathom that this would be coincidence. I think my estrogen was a bit high due to having a few cocktails after work each night. Not an alcoholic, just 2 drinks after work pretty regularly. So, in summary, why does the original thread state that Nolvedex will not reverse gyno?

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    Not sure what my body fat is rite now but not happy with it anyway. Just find it weird how im noticing it now after not being on anything since april/may 2008, i started noticing the lumps maybe4/6 wks ago. they seem to be more around my nipples. Does this sound like ive just put on to much body fat? Thinking of buying liquid letro and also just going to the doctor for a check. Any ideas?

  16. #16
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    aaaa
    Last edited by taftkeeper07; 09-27-2011 at 11:38 AM.

  17. #17
    The Ring Bearer pickle bunny's Avatar
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    bump

  18. #18
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  19. #19
    Amateur Bodybuilder balboa270's Avatar
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    ok i would not fuck with letro unless my ais dex or arom diddnt hndle it.I keep letro for last resort*so i disagree adex is the shit for me

  20. #20
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    Besides reduced sex drive, are there any other reasons letro is dangerous? Also, if you are on a test cycle, do you agree it would offset the letros sex drive issues?
    greatly appreciate any experiences anyone could share with me. Thanks

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    Know this is a massive bump. But the thread helped me out heaps, and might be able to help out others!
    Had some hard lump gyno about 3cm by 1cm thick (had ultrasound). Only in the right peck. Was from a test cycle with no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) throughout. Didn't realise you had to do that and was waiting to run it with my PCT (AI/SERM). Anyways, showed up slowly at the very end of the cycle wk10.
    After about 2 weeks with having the lump and doing research I ran the 2.5mg Letrozole (pharama grade from Doctors) for a month. Tapered off for the last week as shown above. It took away the lump around 3 weeks in!! Its been few weeks now and Im starting to feel back to normal. The Sides that I did have was KILLED my sexy drive. Also took a hit on all my lifts, with no gains at all for that month. A well worth it sacrifice for being a idiot!
    Anyways, good luck with yours! Saved me the BS surgery!

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    Help with mild gyno
    Hi need help with mild gyno...im 20 and have been at gym for 4-5 years.. I have good diet low bf% and train 5 days a week. About a year and a bit or 2 years ago i took a month of EPI tablets. I was told no need for post cycle therapy (pct) so i didnt. I bulked up good with good gains but noticed i developed a lump on my right nipple. I went to doctor and he said it happens in young men with high protein intake.2years later i still have it my nipples arent sensitive but the lump is sometimes sore.

    Both nipples get puffy and make my chest look bad but when they are hard i have a good looking chest...how can i treat this?

  23. #23
    kujo2012
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    gyno reversal ASAP
    So i was on DMZ1 for a really messed up period of a cycle. as i just started taking the pills with no knowledge of handling anabolics.
    June 2011, i noticed gyno symptoms, but i thought since i had it before from puberty it'll go away( lump under both nipples).
    well this time it didn't and its gotten a bit noticeable. is it too late to start letro? i feel like am running out of time.

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    ^ Get a 2 bottles of liquid letro from RUI products. Building up to 2.5mg letro per day over a once week period. Say 0.5mg day 1 up to 2.5mg day 5. Run 2.5mg for a month and see if there are any changes. If no changes start taking 1.25mg for another month or two and see what happens. If you are noticing changes then continue to run the letro until changes subside. Taper off the letro over a 2-3 week period and run Nolvadex once you are completely off letro incase your estrogen rebounds.

    All this info I believe is on the first page of this thread.

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    good post

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