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View Poll Results: How many days a week do you shoot your HGH?

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  • Every Day

    7 50.00%
  • Every Other Day

    4 28.57%
  • 5 on 2 off

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  1. #1
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    How often do you shoot your HGH?
    Alright, because HGH is becoming more and more inexpensive there are more people giving it a shot! Thats great for all of us who are not pros and just want to try it, but most probably won't do any research so I thought this might help some people out. I have read so many things suggesting ED, EOD, 5 on 2 off....and others but these are the most common that I've seen. I have seen a study that suggests EOD is better for your natural GH production and that is what I am leaning towards because I am young and trying not to be stupid! But lets hear your opinions! This doesn't take into account doseages but that can be found on many other threads!

  2. #2
    Anabolic Consultant WARCHILD's Avatar
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    ill go with ed for myself...............

    whats up larby!

  3. #3
    greenshadow
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    is it true hg has to be target injected?

  4. #4
    Anabolic Consultant WARCHILD's Avatar
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    you can, its very popular! i prefer gut, inner arms or inner legs!

  5. #5
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    I was starting to see more and more threads all around saying that people were having complaints about coming off for six months to a year on everyday and feeling like complete shit

  6. #6
    Aztech
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    Quote Originally Posted by larby
    I was starting to see more and more threads all around saying that people were having complaints about coming off for six months to a year on everyday and feeling like complete shit
    i've seen the same.

    how young are you?

  7. #7
    Gear In Motion running gun's Avatar
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    From what I've concluded 5/2 is great for lossing B/F,(around 4-6iu's a day), split up in am and pm injections. 3 x per week post workout is better for mass building,(around 10iu's a day one injection).
    Last edited by running gun; 02-01-2007 at 08:29 AM.

  8. #8
    Pro Bodybuilder pineapple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by running gun
    From what I've concluded 5/2 is great for lossing B/F,(around 4-6iu's a day), split up in am and pm injections. 3 x per week post workout is better for mass building,(around 10iu's a day one injection).
    5/2 is the most wacked out method. People came up with that just to save a couple of buck. When in fact they lose money in the long run.

  9. #9
    30 YEARS AAS EXPERIENCE Deepglute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple
    5/2 is the most wacked out method. People came up with that just to save a couple of buck. When in fact they lose money in the long run.
    The 5/2 dosing protocol was actually the one used by the anti-aging doctors who were conducting studies on the anti-aging effects of HGH therapy. They felt that by allowing your body to rely on it's own production of HGH for 2 days was healthier. The doctors obviously didn't believe there is a negative feedback loop in the body for HGH production.

    I have looked for studies proving there is a negative feedback loop for HGH like the body has for Testosterone and to date I have'nt found one. I actually found a website from an anti-aging doctor in Mexico you claims taking exogenous HGH actually helps the body's natural HGH production to increase.

    If anyone knows of a website showing the exact negative feedback loop for HGH, please post the link.

  10. #10
    Gear In Motion running gun's Avatar
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    I agree DG; however the new thing on these threads is that the 5/2 was developed to save money. Don't know where it came from but as soon as one guy says so on a forum it becomes written in stone. The 2 days off to me would be to keep your body regulated and not totally dependant on outside HGH,(if there is no negitive feedback loop), it makes sense. The eod method I don't understand. GH has a short life of about 2 hours so what could be the benefit of eod, (I don't know,just asking). There’s so much info that get repeated and not substantiated that I don't know what to believe anymore. 5/2, eod, 3x week post WO, split dosages, WTF!. Also several studies listed from Doctors are for children with a short stature. I’m looking for something for rejuvenation and B/F loss in my 40’s. I don’t think the protocol would be the same. I wish we had a Doctor in the field that could chime in.

  11. #11
    30 YEARS AAS EXPERIENCE Deepglute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by running gun
    I’m looking for something for rejuvenation and B/F loss in my 40’s. I don’t think the protocol would be the same. I wish we had a Doctor in the field that could chime in.
    http://myhealthspan.com/RudmanStudy.shtm

  12. #12
    Gear In Motion running gun's Avatar
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    Nice read DG, any idea how much 0.03 mg per kilo of bodyweight is. Granted this study is for men 60-80 it would still give some insight into dosing. Thanks, RG

  13. #13
    30 YEARS AAS EXPERIENCE Deepglute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by running gun
    Nice read DG, any idea how much 0.03 mg per kilo of bodyweight is. Granted this study is for men 60-80 it would still give some insight into dosing. Thanks, RG
    1kg = 2.2lbs. A 220lb man weighs 100kg X .03mg = 3mg's.

    World Anabolic Review 1996 states that 1mg of HGH is exactly 2.7iu's, so 3mg X 2.7 = 8.1iu's HGH.
    Last edited by Deepglute; 02-01-2007 at 06:54 PM.

  14. #14
    Pro Bodybuilder pineapple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepglute
    The 5/2 dosing protocol was actually the one used by the anti-aging doctors who were conducting studies on the anti-aging effects of HGH therapy. They felt that by allowing your body to rely on it's own production of HGH for 2 days was healthier. The doctors obviously didn't believe there is a negative feedback loop in the body for HGH production.

    I have looked for studies proving there is a negative feedback loop for HGH like the body has for Testosterone and to date I have'nt found one. I actually found a website from an anti-aging doctor in Mexico you claims taking exogenous HGH actually helps the body's natural HGH production to increase.

    If anyone knows of a website showing the exact negative feedback loop for HGH, please post the link.
    Hmm, good to know. Most studies on pub med that use hGH use EOD method. I would also like to know if there is a negative feedback if taking synthetic hGH. I would also assume that it would be like testosterone shutdown, ...I would love to know.

    ALSO, if the body produces most hGH during sleep. Wouldnt make much sense to take it post workout. Just maybe take it during morning. I'm thinking the body produces most of it during sleep is because the brain has to recharge itself and that is why. But then again when you dont get enough sleep, you also get hGH secretion but I wonder how much.
    Last edited by pineapple; 02-01-2007 at 07:09 PM.

  15. #15
    Lift, eat, sleep and grow Jimmykick's Avatar
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    confirming what I read earlier in this thread. I went from everyday HGH use for 8 months to going cold turkey and basically feeling listless, weak and no desire to work out. It maybe had something to do with coming off cycle too but I have been back on HGH this week and I feel a difference. Some say it's too early to tell but I say bullshit on that. Maybe it takes time to see results of HGH but the benefits, to me, can be felt right away.

  16. #16
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    thats waht i had been reading on other posts was the feeling like shit..gaining body fat...not keeping the LBM all that great and so on...is there anything out there yet that kicks your natural GH back up? I've heard glutamine and some other things that i can't remember but who knows how well that really works?

  17. #17
    Pro Bodybuilder pineapple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larby
    thats waht i had been reading on other posts was the feeling like shit..gaining body fat...not keeping the LBM all that great and so on...is there anything out there yet that kicks your natural GH back up? I've heard glutamine and some other things that i can't remember but who knows how well that really works?
    EOD use helps with recovery faster and with ED hGH use. So there is your answer.

  18. #18
    Pro Bodybuilder DirkMoneyshot's Avatar
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    Just because the half life of GH is short does not mean that IGF-1 levels do not stay elevated which is where most of the benefit of GH comes from.

  19. #19
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    Thumbs up Hgh Eod
    it mimics the way your bodies natural pattern, and also that way it gives your body a break so you can keep using indefinetly every other day has been scientifically proven to show nore growth in kids than any other type of method...and you may wanna add T3 along with GH and some anabolics, and if you can afford to do it right buy some IGF they complinent each other quite well...

  20. #20
    30 YEARS AAS EXPERIENCE Deepglute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larby
    is there anything out there yet that kicks your natural GH back up?
    hexarelin and GHRP-6

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

  21. #21
    Pro Bodybuilder pineapple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkMoneyshot
    Just because the half life of GH is short does not mean that IGF-1 levels do not stay elevated which is where most of the benefit of GH comes from.
    Ditto. Too many people think that it's better if GH is circulating in the blood for a long time. Well, it's gotta get used up sometime and then be gone.

  22. #22
    Gear In Motion running gun's Avatar
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    So back to my original question. If every other day is better should I take a higher dose as apposed to everyday? Should the GH be split into two doses AM-PM? I would also think t3 would be a good addition for weight loss but since it turns into t4 I would think taking 100mcg of t4 would make more since.

  23. #23
    30 YEARS AAS EXPERIENCE Deepglute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by running gun
    would also think t3 would be a good addition for weight loss but since it turns into t4 I would think taking 100mcg of t4 would make more since.
    You have that backwards, T3 does not convert to T4. A portion of T4 converts to T3.

    Supplementing with T4 is a must while on HGH. Here is an article I now have posted for the 3rd time regarding T4 and HGH:http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...th-hormone.htm

  24. #24
    30 YEARS AAS EXPERIENCE Deepglute's Avatar
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    posted by BMF2 on Qualitymuscle


    GH - (ed verses eod)


    A very thorough well controlled 4 year study published on
    The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87, No.8 3573-3577
    clearly shows every other day (EOD) hGH injections to be much more beneficial in
    the long run to everyday injections. Everyday injections seems to drastically lower
    your body's sensitivity to it's own GH secretion. The study included children with idiopathic
    short stature, but can be ever casting on us, normal non-deficient hGH individuals who
    may use hGH periodically for bodybuilding, sports and health purposes.

    The 38 children were divided into 2 groups:
    Group I received daily hGH injections.
    Group II received alternate day hGH injections.

    It is important to note that the total weekly dosage of hGH
    was the same for both groups.

    Both groups received the hGH therapy contiguously for 2 years.
    Their natural growth was followed for an additional 2 years after hGH therapy ended.
    They were all measured at 3-month intervals during the 4 years period (2 years
    with hGH therapy and 2 years after). Their Serum GH was measured by double antibody RIA kit.

    During hGH therapy, both groups accelerated their growth substantially.
    Group I receiving the daily hGH injections first & second year velocity was 3.4 and 2.3 SD
    Group II receiving the alternate hGH inj. had 3.0 and 2.0 SD for first and second year respectively.

    Over the initial 6 months after withdrawal of therapy, growth velocity decelerated to a low nadir -3.9 SD score
    for the daily therapy group, whereas it decelerated in the alternate day group to only -0.2 SD score.

    During the 2 years off therapy, the later group (taking EOD injections)
    maintained growth rates of -0.2 to -1.2 SD score, which is similar to their SD score prior to the hGH treatment.
    The daily group also recovered but very slowly, on the fourth semiannual evaluation off therapy.
    The cumulative 4-year growth velocity (2yrs on and 2 yrs off therapy) of the alternate day group was greater
    than that of the daily therapy group (mean, 0.9 vs. 0.3 SD score).

    At the end of the 4-yr therapy period, the adult height prediction of the alternate day group was greater
    than that of the daily group by a mea of 6.5cm (that's over 2.5" in height, quite a lot of difference)

    In even simpler English, to translate what it may mean to us is that using hGH everyday will only
    negligibly give better short-term results. Yet using alternate day hGH will give radically better long-term
    results and much better recovery. As the body may get back to homeostasis much faster.

    Remember the two groups got the same weekly total hGH dosage,
    so your every other day hGH injections would be twice as if you used
    it every day.

    The researchers said, the dose was of less impotency than the schedule of the injections.
    Daily hGH therapy for 3 years caused subnormal growth persisting for 1.5 years (very bad)

    It may be that the problem is not enough hGH or IGF-1 secretion but rather
    the body's decreased sensitivity to it. The interesting part is that the serum GH levels
    and serum IGF-I and IGF-binding protein remained unaffected or relatively mutely affected.
    Even your body's endogenous pulsatile secretion of GH resumes within just days
    even after long-term hGH therapy.

    The researchers hypothesis is that the tolerance may be in the "GH signal transduction in
    selective target organs in response to the disappearance of the unique pulsatile
    pattern of serum GH during GH therapy". You see, hGH taken via sc injections
    do not imitate the your body's own GH secretion.
    "Indeed, daily sc administration of GH results in an unphysiological serum GH profile, with peak
    levels at 4 h and a slow decline over the course of the following 12–24 h. This pattern can be
    regarded as continuous administration, rather than the physiological GH pulses,
    with a frequency of about eight per day."
    "Assuming that the withdrawal syndrome is related to tolerance that might have developed toward
    hGH or IGF-I, we tried to prevent it by alternate day treatment. Moreover, hGH doses used in
    therapy often stimulate IGF-I to supraphysiological serum levels, suggesting that target
    tissues IGF-I may also be higher than normal. The mechanism seems, therefore, to rest
    with hGH and IGF-I action at their target tissues. We now show that alternate day therapy
    with hGH in children with an intact GH-IGF-I axis prevents the withdrawal syndrome"

    Researchers mark the analogy to another endocrine tolerance and withdrawal syndrome:
    "alternate day therapy with glucocoricoids prevents tolerance to that hormone to a substantial degree,
    "Interestingly, glucocoricoids withdrawal syndrome can also occur while the
    hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis is intact (, indicating that tolerance to glucocoricoids has developed
    at the target organ level (9). "

    An example of a good safe protocol to follow in my opinion could be

    hGH taken for 4 months (16 weeks) or more at 8IU every other day,
    split to 4IU three hours after waking up (say 11:00am)
    and another 4IU taken 4 hours later (say 3:00pm).
    This approach is quite conservative and may be optimal.

    Obviously, you may extend past 4months, and take more IUs per day.
    This approach goes with 8IU EOD, so it is equivalent to folks that would
    otherwise go with 4IU ED, which is what most do.

    There is some controversy as to how many of these IUs the body
    can utilize at once

    Obviously, there are lot of studies, some better conducted, some less.
    Lots of opinions and doctrines in endocrinology, bodybuilding etc..
    So you should make your own decision, I guess old individuals on
    hGH for life would not mind, as no rebound would affect them. Professional
    bodybuilders probably wouldn't mind as well.

    I would rather follow a protocol like this. For most part due to the
    nasty rebound that I could get after withdrawing from long-term ED hGH treatment.
    Nothing worse then look awesome, stop hGH then after several months having:
    Low body sensitivity to your own body's GH.
    Slow recovery
    Decline in resting cardiac output
    Increase fat mass
    Decrease in ********* rate
    Negative nitrogen balance, phosphorus, sodium and potassium.

    Again, I said "could" not "would", because this study cannot absolutely manifest
    our use of hGH. Moreso, we are not children, we are not idiopathic hGH deficient
    and not aGHD. But since the weekly dosages do remain the same as well as the
    duration of the hGH usage. Just changing to the EOD protocol from the well
    hyped everyday inj protocol is worth in my honest opinion. It seems statistically
    a better bet, with more chance to win, than loose as opposed to the ED protocol.

    I just tried to summarize the findings of the study, which was by the way,
    a pleasure to read as the study is well written and was prepared by
    Dr Hochberg, MD, a renowned well respected figure in endocrinology.

    You can read the full article with all the graphs and details here:
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/8/3573
    With references to 23 studies.

    Here are some interesting graphs:

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/conten...g0828721002.gif
    This graph shows the difference growth velocity difference pre GH treatment, and at the
    end of the trial, 4 years after (2 years after withdrawal from GH treatment)
    The dark bar marks the alternate day injections. The light bar marks the every day injections,
    note that the every day injections group saw worse long-term (4 yrs) results as opposed
    to the alternate day group.

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/conten...g0828721003.gif
    This graph shows the annual bone age advancement in children treated with
    alternate GH injections and daily injections.
    The light bar marks the every day injections, the dark bar the alternate day injections.
    In first two years (the years they were taking hGH), take a look at the relatively
    small advantage ED injections gave over the EOD inj, as opposed to the 2 years

  25. #25
    Gear In Motion running gun's Avatar
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    Thumbs up
    My bad DG, I got it backwards, But the bottom line is still true,T4 with GH not T3. As you pointed out before here is the quote from Anthony Roberts on the subject;

    "If you’ve been using GH without T4, you’ve been wasting half your money – and if you’ve been using it with T3, you’ve been wasting your time. Start using T4 with your GH, and you’ll finally be getting the full results from your investment".

    Thanks again DG for all you help on this topic. This was the article I was referring too but forgot where I read it. I've been doing so much research I have no more room in my head. I find the GH topic to be very fascinating. I really believe GH will be more mainstream in time, if not abused now, in its infancy. I’m trying to be as safe as possible, while still making it an affective cycle. RG

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